Calumet files Chapter 7

On 3/14/2014 12:07 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PAS
wrote:

they might close their store and be just an online seller.

They certainly can. If the store closed down, Bill Cameta will still do
very, very well with his eBay business. He does a lot of business in
used gear also. If it ever closes, I'll miss the place.

that's the point. many stores are no longer needed when it's easier to
get products online.

for a store to survive, it needs to offer something you *can't* get
online.

That would be personalized expert service and the ability to handle the
goods before buying. That's something the brick & mortar store still
offers.

but not necessarily at a competitive price. stores have an overhead
that an online seller does not have and almost always have higher
prices, sometimes by quite a bit.

what ends up happening is people might go to a store to check out the
camera or other product and then go order it online for much less. the
store not only doesn't get the sale but they spent time helping someone
buy elsewhere.


Cametta & Jimmy Koh match Internet pricing, and give personal service.

BTW B&H gives superb personal service and advice.


--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:

BTW B&H gives superb personal service and advice.

b&h is an online seller, unless you happen to live near there.

On 3/14/14 11:07 AM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote:

In article , PAS
wrote:

they might close their store and be just an online seller.

They certainly can. If the store closed down, Bill Cameta will still do
very, very well with his eBay business. He does a lot of business in
used gear also. If it ever closes, I'll miss the place.

that's the point. many stores are no longer needed when it's easier to
get products online.

for a store to survive, it needs to offer something you *can't* get
online.

That would be personalized expert service and the ability to handle the
goods before buying. That's something the brick & mortar store still
offers.

but not necessarily at a competitive price. stores have an overhead
that an online seller does not have and almost always have higher
prices, sometimes by quite a bit.

what ends up happening is people might go to a store to check out the
camera or other product and then go order it online for much less. the
store not only doesn't get the sale but they spent time helping someone
buy elsewhere.

THAT is EXACTLY what people would do to me when I was a store manager for a
local mom n pop store here. Even though, Nikon, Olympus and Canon would give
us deals and quantity breaks in wholesale to us, folks would come in and
waste hours of my and my staff's time and then leave and buy from B&H or
some other mail order outfit back in the late 70's.

Like you said, a local store doesn't stay in business without something.
Even though we tried to discount the hardware to match mail order, we sold
accessories like filters, cases and bags at full retail to help. The REAL
money came from our photofinishing operations. Keep in mind "One Hour Labs"
were not around just yet, but we could get a 24 hour turnaround with local
printing and overnight Kodachrome, depending on when the customer brought in
the film before courier pickup. Another pure profit area per square foot was
a card rack we kept in a corner when the customer would first walk in.

Today, the trick is having a large used equipment department. The only two
surviving operations here in the third most populated county in the US
thrive on this, along with VERY knowledgeable staff.

1. Camera Co/Op

2. Houston Camera Exchange

Neither have web pages it seems but if Googled, one can find several
favorable reviews.

In article , George Kerby
wrote:

That would be personalized expert service and the ability to handle the
goods before buying. That's something the brick & mortar store still
offers.

but not necessarily at a competitive price. stores have an overhead
that an online seller does not have and almost always have higher
prices, sometimes by quite a bit.

what ends up happening is people might go to a store to check out the
camera or other product and then go order it online for much less. the
store not only doesn't get the sale but they spent time helping someone
buy elsewhere.

THAT is EXACTLY what people would do to me when I was a store manager for a
local mom n pop store here. Even though, Nikon, Olympus and Canon would give
us deals and quantity breaks in wholesale to us, folks would come in and
waste hours of my and my staff's time and then leave and buy from B&H or
some other mail order outfit back in the late 70's.

you didn't offer them a reason to buy from you.

people will generally pay a little extra when they get a little extra.
what they aren't inclined to do is pay extra for the same service (or
sometimes less).

Like you said, a local store doesn't stay in business without something.
Even though we tried to discount the hardware to match mail order, we sold
accessories like filters, cases and bags at full retail to help. The REAL
money came from our photofinishing operations.

yep, and film processing is just about all gone now, so that won't work
anymore.

a local camera store near me tried setting up custom kiosks/printers
for digital prints, larger than what someone could print at home, but
that failed. they are no longer in business.

Keep in mind "One Hour Labs"
were not around just yet, but we could get a 24 hour turnaround with local
printing and overnight Kodachrome, depending on when the customer brought in
the film before courier pickup. Another pure profit area per square foot was
a card rack we kept in a corner when the customer would first walk in.

the one hour labs were fast. they weren't generally good. i used to use
a local camera store that did excellent work, but it took longer than
one hour. that was worth paying a little extra.

Today, the trick is having a large used equipment department. The only two
surviving operations here in the third most populated county in the US
thrive on this, along with VERY knowledgeable staff.

used equipment is a different market segment and a shrewd owner can do
quite well if they know the value of equipment.

on the other hand, there are those who overprice used stuff and i have
to laugh at some of the prices i see.

In article , George Kerby
wrote:

THAT is EXACTLY what people would do to me when I was a store manager for a
local mom n pop store here. Even though, Nikon, Olympus and Canon would give
us deals and quantity breaks in wholesale to us, folks would come in and
waste hours of my and my staff's time and then leave and buy from B&H or
some other mail order outfit back in the late 70's.

Me too, with three stores that survived into the mid-80's. We had a
used department, we had a public darkroom, we had rentals, we had a DIY
mounting and framing area, we had a gallery, we had contests, we had
free training, we had free friggin COFFEE - but at the end of the day,
people basically sucked it up and bought from the big New York stores.

Then of course they'd bring their new toy in for help or in-warranty
repairs; at that point, the pretense was off, so they'd whip out a copy
of Shutterbug before they buy so much as a filter.

(Gee, bitter much, 30 years after I went out of business...?)

The worst part was, the not-customers usually weren't really being mean
or selfish - for the most part, it never occurred to them I had rent
and salaries to meet: "Geez, Fred, it was seventeen damn dollars! I'm
always here for you, and you don't even give me a chance!?"

Then you'd get the blank look, and explain to them about profit and
loss: "Doesn't Nikon pay you to demonstrate their stuff?"

On 3/14/2014 6:03 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

for a store to survive, it needs to offer something you *can't* get
online.

It's called personal service.

most stores don't offer that, and of the ones that do, not that many
people are willing to pay for it.


Just to be clear, we are talking about camera stores, not big box stores.
If so, again you have demonstrated a total lack of knowledge. Tell us
the factual basis for your statement bout "most stores" not offering
service.


--
PeterN

On 3/14/2014 6:05 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

BTW B&H gives superb personal service and advice.

b&h is an online seller, unless you happen to live near there.


that does not mean they are not a brick & mortar store that gives
excellent personal service and advice.


--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:

for a store to survive, it needs to offer something you *can't* get
online.

It's called personal service.

most stores don't offer that, and of the ones that do, not that many
people are willing to pay for it.

Just to be clear, we are talking about camera stores, not big box stores.

no kidding.

If so, again you have demonstrated a total lack of knowledge. Tell us
the factual basis for your statement bout "most stores" not offering
service.

having shopped in them.

if they offered service, they'd still be in business. very simple. most
didn't and they aren't.

many of the camera stores were more interested in closing a sale than
helping a customer. often, the salesperson knew very little about what
it was they were pushing. often, they push the product with the highest
spiff and then push the filters, bags and other high markup crap.

i remember one time i went to a relatively major camera store and i
asked about a nikon slide copier for coolpix cameras. he told me there
was no such product from nikon. i said oh yes there most certainly was.
he insisted if such a product existed, he would know and since he
didn't know about it, there was no such product. i told him to look it
up in the catalog. he did and there it was, plain as day.

now tell me again why i need to bother with idiots like that.

and people wonder why so many camera stores are closing.

heck, even staples is closing a bunch of stores because most of their
sales are now online.

things change. either the store adapts to the changes or they go away.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

BTW B&H gives superb personal service and advice.

b&h is an online seller, unless you happen to live near there.

that does not mean they are not a brick & mortar store that gives
excellent personal service and advice.

it means that the vast majority of their customers do not shop *in* the
store.

it's also a hassle to buy there because it's so crowded.

they are also the exception. most stores are not anything at all like
b&h, which is why most of them are gone.

On 2014-03-15 04:29:33 +0000, nospam said:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

BTW B&H gives superb personal service and advice.

b&h is an online seller, unless you happen to live near there.

that does not mean they are not a brick & mortar store that gives
excellent personal service and advice.

it means that the vast majority of their customers do not shop *in* the
store.

They are a global store, making sales to many nations. I shop at B&H
online, I receive their catalog several times a year, and I have yet to
walk through their front door.

it's also a hassle to buy there because it's so crowded.

There is a reason they are so crowded. On top of being a comprehensive
media oriented store, they are a destination for many. There are some
folks who travel to NYC just to go to B&H.

they are also the exception. most stores are not anything at all like
b&h, which is why most of them are gone.

They are also not just a camera store, so there is a wide
diversification among their customers.


--
Regards,

Savageduck