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Should I short digital camera manufacturers?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 5th 14, 03:37 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Paul Ciszek
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Posts: 244
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?


In article dhosting.com,
Mathis Lefebvre wrote:

With every single person holding a cellphone camera in their
pocket, I can't see how they can survive.


The market for compact point & shoots is shrinking, but anyone who was
using a DSLR or MILC or even a bridge camera won't settle for a camera
phone.

Whether young people will continue to go *into* serious photography as
a hobby is a good question, though.

--
Money is Speech
Corporations are People
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

  #2  
Old April 5th 14, 04:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?

In article , Paul Ciszek
wrote:

With every single person holding a cellphone camera in their
pocket, I can't see how they can survive.


The market for compact point & shoots is shrinking, but anyone who was
using a DSLR or MILC or even a bridge camera won't settle for a camera
phone.


yes they will, and have.

a phone is good enough for most situations where someone might have
previously brought an slr or compact, and the phone cameras keep
improving.

the slrs and other 'real cameras' will be relegated to special events,
not everyday photography.

Whether young people will continue to go *into* serious photography as
a hobby is a good question, though.


of course they will, but it won't be the same as what the old farts
think of as photography. the future will be largely software and image
processing.
  #3  
Old April 6th 14, 05:50 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Dale[_4_]
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Posts: 131
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?

On 04/04/2014 11:31 PM, nospam wrote:
a phone is good enough for most situations where someone might have
previously brought an slr or compact, and the phone cameras keep
improving.


what about the wide angle lens of these cell phones?

I don't think cell phones are going to get enough thicker to change the
angle

but for consumer applications they seem "good enough" except that the
sRGB color standard doesn't cover all monitors/TVs and some cameras
export less quality color reproduction than is what is on the phone
display, some phones don't even keep the rotation right

--
Dale
  #4  
Old April 6th 14, 06:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 00:50:41 -0400, Dale
wrote:

On 04/04/2014 11:31 PM, nospam wrote:
a phone is good enough for most situations where someone might have
previously brought an slr or compact, and the phone cameras keep
improving.


what about the wide angle lens of these cell phones?

I don't think cell phones are going to get enough thicker to change the
angle

but for consumer applications they seem "good enough" except that the
sRGB color standard doesn't cover all monitors/TVs and some cameras
export less quality color reproduction than is what is on the phone
display, some phones don't even keep the rotation right


A few weeks ago I posted a link to work that may lead to a lensless
camera with an equivalent focal lens length of your choice. The work
is being targetted at thin flat cameras suitable for cellphone use. I
am aware of no indication of how good this may turn out to be.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #5  
Old April 6th 14, 04:37 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Paul Ciszek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 244
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?


In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote:

A few weeks ago I posted a link to work that may lead to a lensless
camera with an equivalent focal lens length of your choice. The work
is being targetted at thin flat cameras suitable for cellphone use. I
am aware of no indication of how good this may turn out to be.


I missed that; do you still have the link?

At least one person has claimed to have taken apart a Lytro and found it
to be very different from what was claimed--a simple camera in perpetual
hyperfocal mode. The "focus after the fact" effect, they claimed, was
acheived by selectively blurring things in software.

--
Money is Speech
Corporations are People
Ignorance is Strength

  #6  
Old April 6th 14, 05:37 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Robert Coe
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Posts: 4,901
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 17:18:04 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:
: On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 00:50:41 -0400, Dale
: wrote:
:
: On 04/04/2014 11:31 PM, nospam wrote:
: a phone is good enough for most situations where someone might have
: previously brought an slr or compact, and the phone cameras keep
: improving.
:
: what about the wide angle lens of these cell phones?
:
: I don't think cell phones are going to get enough thicker to change the
: angle
:
: but for consumer applications they seem "good enough" except that the
: sRGB color standard doesn't cover all monitors/TVs and some cameras
: export less quality color reproduction than is what is on the phone
: display, some phones don't even keep the rotation right
:
: A few weeks ago I posted a link to work that may lead to a lensless
: camera with an equivalent focal lens length of your choice. The work
: is being targetted at thin flat cameras suitable for cellphone use. I
: am aware of no indication of how good this may turn out to be.

No better than the sensor size of a cell phone camera allows it to be.

Bob
  #7  
Old April 7th 14, 12:32 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?

On Sun, 6 Apr 2014 15:37:20 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Ciszek) wrote:


In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote:

A few weeks ago I posted a link to work that may lead to a lensless
camera with an equivalent focal lens length of your choice. The work
is being targetted at thin flat cameras suitable for cellphone use. I
am aware of no indication of how good this may turn out to be.


I missed that; do you still have the link?


I can't find the link to my article but I think that this is what I
was referring to:
http://www.technologyreview.com/view...view-pictures/
or http://tinyurl.com/pwhy6zt

However, there is a lot going on. See:
https://www.google.co.nz/#q=mit+lensless+camera

At least one person has claimed to have taken apart a Lytro and found it
to be very different from what was claimed--a simple camera in perpetual
hyperfocal mode. The "focus after the fact" effect, they claimed, was
acheived by selectively blurring things in software.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #8  
Old April 7th 14, 01:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
J. Clarke[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,273
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 17:18:04 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:
: On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 00:50:41 -0400, Dale
: wrote:
:
: On 04/04/2014 11:31 PM, nospam wrote:
: a phone is good enough for most situations where someone might have
: previously brought an slr or compact, and the phone cameras keep
: improving.
:
: what about the wide angle lens of these cell phones?
:
: I don't think cell phones are going to get enough thicker to change the
: angle
:
: but for consumer applications they seem "good enough" except that the
: sRGB color standard doesn't cover all monitors/TVs and some cameras
: export less quality color reproduction than is what is on the phone
: display, some phones don't even keep the rotation right
:
: A few weeks ago I posted a link to work that may lead to a lensless
: camera with an equivalent focal lens length of your choice. The work
: is being targetted at thin flat cameras suitable for cellphone use. I
: am aware of no indication of how good this may turn out to be.

No better than the sensor size of a cell phone camera allows it to be.


IIRC that particular concept is trying to use interferometric techniques
to synthesize an image from multiple sensors. If it works then it could
give remarkably high resolution, but won't do much for sensitivity.
  #9  
Old April 7th 14, 10:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Martin Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 821
Default Should I short digital camera manufacturers?

On 07/04/2014 01:27, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 17:18:04 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:
: On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 00:50:41 -0400, Dale
: wrote:
:
: On 04/04/2014 11:31 PM, nospam wrote:
: a phone is good enough for most situations where someone might have
: previously brought an slr or compact, and the phone cameras keep
: improving.
:
: what about the wide angle lens of these cell phones?
:
: I don't think cell phones are going to get enough thicker to change the
: angle
:
: but for consumer applications they seem "good enough" except that the
: sRGB color standard doesn't cover all monitors/TVs and some cameras
: export less quality color reproduction than is what is on the phone
: display, some phones don't even keep the rotation right
:
: A few weeks ago I posted a link to work that may lead to a lensless
: camera with an equivalent focal lens length of your choice. The work
: is being targetted at thin flat cameras suitable for cellphone use. I
: am aware of no indication of how good this may turn out to be.

No better than the sensor size of a cell phone camera allows it to be.


IIRC that particular concept is trying to use interferometric techniques
to synthesize an image from multiple sensors. If it works then it could
give remarkably high resolution, but won't do much for sensitivity.


More coded aperture convolutional coding than interferometry. You can't
sensibly do interferometry without using close to monochromatic light.

It is more like a very sophisticated version of a pinhole camera but
letting a lot more light through to the focal plane. See

http://phys.org/news/2014-03-ultra-t...algorithm.html

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
 




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