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#21
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Windows 10. Horrible!
"Whisky-dave" wrote
| The latest version of Windows | is far less safe than careful use of an old version. | | Not true, as was seen with wannacry . | I just explained all that in great detail above. Did you miss that? Here's a more technical explanation: https://www.csoonline.com/article/32...sponsible.html Long story short, WannaCry was just a single bug that happened to be patched in Win10. But the way it attacked was through SMB -- networking functionality. For anyone not on a corporate network it doesn't need to be a risk at all. It still comes back to the same thing: As long as you allow remote software to run code on your machine, there's no possiblity of security. The only question is when and how you'll be compromised. | Then outside | hackers hack into the NSA and make them public. | Federal tax dollars are funding the likes of WannaCry. | | where did you get that info from ? | Read the link above. Where have you been? This has been a scandal for awhile now. The NSA is developing this stuff and then it's getting stolen from them. https://arstechnica.com/information-...-to-microsoft/ https://techprolonged.com/2017/03/wi...phone-android/ https://techprolonged.com/2017/05/wa...dows-exploits/ https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv...brokers_r.html If you really want to know about this then why not research it yourself rather than just challenging me? | There's a lot of money | involved. At some point it may be that *all* | money is involved. | | I doubt that. | Personally I still mail checks and walk to the bank, but I know a lot of people who do nearly everything electronically. Direct deposit, automatic withdrawal, credit cards and debit cards to buy food and other necessities. That's all going over computer networks and being stored in online databases. Gas pump, ATM and supermarket checkout skimmers, malware installed through online ads.... That's high-level, professional stuff because there's a lot of money to be made. It's a far cry from the teenage prank malware of the 90s. | | (Nospam thinks he's going to | be safe by letting Apple or Google handle his | finances.) | | far safer than letting XP handle it. | Good luck with that. Your attitude is exactly what the crooks (and the companies that want to sell you a "wallet") want you to think. | want to buy stuff online, do our banking, adjust | our home thermometer.... The "Internet of Things" | is becoming a new, | | I know there's a course on the subject running outside my office. | It's not realyl a computer thing it about embeded devices rather than the computer and its OS. | Not really a computer thing?! IoT is about Internet- connected devices. Computer devices. Networked devices. Using internal computers. Your iPhone talks to your front door lock. Your car keys talk to your car. Once you've done that, it can be hacked. Those have been hacked. As more and more things become unnecessarily automated and computerized, it becomes increasingly easy to break things. World War 3 might just start with a cyberattack that causes all driverless cars to accelerate uncontrollably, killing millions in seconds and leaving the national infrastructure unusable. And why? It's all such unnecessary idiocy. | Why | are they hackable? Because people think it's | clever to unlock your house from your cellphone. | | Most don't do that as yet. | Yes. *Most* don't do *that* yet. So you can probably go back to sleep. Sorry to wake you. But check This Old house sometime. They're installing them. They think they're clever. |
#22
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Windows 10. Horrible!
In article , Mayayana
wrote: Long story short, WannaCry was just a single bug that happened to be patched in Win10. which means that win10 is *more* secure than winxp, exactly the *opposite* of what you've been babbling about. But the way it attacked was through SMB -- networking functionality. For anyone not on a corporate network it doesn't need to be a risk at all. wannacry is just one example of many. It still comes back to the same thing: As long as you allow remote software to run code on your machine, there's no possiblity of security. The only question is when and how you'll be compromised. unless you write *all* of your own software *and* the operating system itself, using a compiler you also wrote, then you could be compromised. how do you really know that the compiler isn't adding secret back doors to what it's generating? oh, design and fab your own chips too. the hardware could have some 'additional functionality' you might not want. | There's a lot of money | involved. At some point it may be that *all* | money is involved. | | I doubt that. | Personally I still mail checks and walk to the bank, but I know a lot of people who do nearly everything electronically. Direct deposit, automatic withdrawal, credit cards and debit cards to buy food and other necessities. That's all going over computer networks and being stored in online databases. the checks you mailed are scanned and then destroyed by the bank, with the images stored in online databases. the envelopes you mailed are scanned by the us postal service and also stored in a database. Gas pump, ATM and supermarket checkout skimmers, malware installed through online ads.... That's high-level, professional stuff because there's a lot of money to be made. It's a far cry from the teenage prank malware of the 90s. as i said before, apple/android pay is immune to skimmers or merchants being hacked. you refuse to learn. | (Nospam thinks he's going to | be safe by letting Apple or Google handle his | finances.) | | far safer than letting XP handle it. | Good luck with that. Your attitude is exactly what the crooks (and the companies that want to sell you a "wallet") want you to think. further evidence that you haven't any clue whatso****ingever about how apple/android pay works. nobody is being sold a 'wallet'. | want to buy stuff online, do our banking, adjust | our home thermometer.... The "Internet of Things" | is becoming a new, | | I know there's a course on the subject running outside my office. | It's not realyl a computer thing it about embeded devices rather than the computer and its OS. | Not really a computer thing?! IoT is about Internet- connected devices. Computer devices. Networked devices. Using internal computers. Your iPhone talks to your front door lock. Your car keys talk to your car. Once you've done that, it can be hacked. Those have been hacked. anything can be hacked. call a locksmith and watch how easily he can pick the lock on your front or back door, or just use a bump key yourself. it's child's play. or just smash a window and climb in that way. locks keep out the honest. they do nothing to stop those with ill intent. As more and more things become unnecessarily automated and computerized, it becomes increasingly easy to break things. more difficult, you mean. it's not possible to bump key a lock that has no physical key, and cracking the encryption is *significantly* more difficult. or as i said, just throw a rock through the window. World War 3 might just start with a cyberattack that causes all driverless cars to accelerate uncontrollably, killing millions in seconds and leaving the national infrastructure unusable. And why? It's all such unnecessary idiocy. the only idiocy is what you keep spewing. |
#23
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Windows 10. Horrible!
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 10:16:38 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote: Which comes full circle to where this started: Security updates are nice, but only a small part of computer security. The latest version of Windows is far less safe than careful use of an old version. But the careful use of the latest version is better than the careful use of an old version. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#24
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Windows 10. Horrible!
"Eric Stevens" wrote
| Which comes full circle to where this started: | Security updates are nice, but only a small part | of computer security. The latest version of Windows | is far less safe than careful use of an old version. | | But the careful use of the latest version is better than the careful | use of an old version. Maybe a little bit. But the risks are different. Not all the same vulnerabilities apply to both. And are you careful? do you disable networking and either disable script or at least use NoScript to limit it? Do you avoid using risky Microsoft and Adobe products? If not then you're not being careful. The top 6 vulnerabilities last year were connected with Flash. One was in Windows, one in Silverlight and 2 in IE. The worst was an IE bug. The Windows bug example I've seen used a rigged Powerpoint file. So all of the top 10 bugs were avoidable by not using IE, Silverlight, Flash, or MS Office. That's pretty much what the situation was 10 years ago, or even 15 years ago. Flash, Adobe Acrobat, Java, MS Office and IE were the big risks and still are. And the vast majority of those attacks also require javascript. It's all about allowing executable code like script to run from the Internet. (Though with MS Office it's usually about opening a rigged file on your computer.) For over 15 years the basic advice to stay safe has been pretty much the same. That's what I was talking about initially: Actual attacks on Windows itself are rare and usually connected to unsafe networking. The only bug I can recall that was otherwise was a bug some years ago in gdiplus.dll that allowed attacks via image files. Typically the Windows bugs require a machine to be allowing contact through risky ports - 135, 139, 445 I think they are. Remote Desktop, file sharing.... stuff like that carries risks. So, yes, there are bugs that are fixed in Win10 and not in XP. There are most probably also bugs that exist for Win10 and not for XP or Win7. It's just not that big of a deal which version you're using. Microsoft and their media army play up the security angle so that people will be afraid not to update. Are you safer with Win10? That's hard to say out of context. Will you be safer if you avoid script, Flash, Acrobat, Java and MS Office? Undoubtedly. Avoiding the most popular software, in general, helps. Not running as admin will help a little bit, but personally I don't think it's worth the hassle. Creating user restrictions has just forced malware writers to find ways to bypass restrictions. There's also the so-called social engineering angle: Getting people to click links in emails that look official, for instance. The one arguable advantage with Win10 is the constant updating. But that's also a vulnerrability, a potential destabilizer, a privacy issue, and renders Win10 a changing product. You might not want all those changes. If you like Win10 then I doubt there's any big security risk in using it. But security is not a reason to switch to Win10. |
#25
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Windows 10. Horrible!
"Eric Stevens" wrote
| But the careful use of the latest version is better than the careful | use of an old version. I think another way of looking at this is.... If you don't want to be hobbled by good security but you're willing to buy a new computer in order to be more secure, then why not buy a Mac? Macs have far less trouble and probably will for at least the near-term future. They cost more but they also have resale value. Macs are the AOL of computers. They put you in a suburban playpen and take care of security for you. It's not failsafe, but if you're not going to take the trouble to *really* be careful then a Mac is a much safer choice.... assuming it will run the software you need. |
#26
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Windows 10. Horrible!
In article , Mayayana
wrote: Not running as admin will help a little bit, but personally I don't think it's worth the hassle. actually, it helps a *lot*. as in, block almost all of it. https://www.tomsguide.com/us/standar...are,news-18326. html "Ninety-two percent of all vulnerabilities reported by Microsoft with a critical severity rating can be mitigated by removing admin rights," states the enterprise-security firm Avecto, of Manchester, England, in a new report. "Removing admin rights would mitigate 96 percent of critical vulnerabilities affecting Windows operating systems, 91 percent of critical vulnerabilities affecting Microsoft Office and 100 percent of vulnerabilities in Internet Explorer," Avecto said. Creating user restrictions has just forced malware writers to find ways to bypass restrictions. which is generally difficult, and there are enough people who run as admin for there to be plenty of targets, making it not very worthwhile to bypass anything. There's also the so-called social engineering angle: Getting people to click links in emails that look official, for instance. that's the biggest weakness and one that is very difficult to fix. even security researchers who know better can sometimes be tricked. The one arguable advantage with Win10 is the constant updating. it's a huge advantage, although it can be annoying at times. But that's also a vulnerrability, a potential destabilizer, a privacy issue, and renders Win10 a changing product. nonsense. You might not want all those changes. nearly everyone does. security patches, bug fixes and new features are a good thing. If you like Win10 then I doubt there's any big security risk in using it. But security is not a reason to switch to Win10. it's a very good reason. |
#27
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Windows 10. Horrible!
In article , Mayayana
wrote: | But the careful use of the latest version is better than the careful | use of an old version. I think another way of looking at this is.... If you don't want to be hobbled by good security hobbled by good security? but you're willing to buy a new computer in order to be more secure, then why not buy a Mac? good advice. Macs have far less trouble and probably will for at least the near-term future. has someone hacked your account?? you're talking sense. They cost more no they don't. but they also have resale value. yes they do. Macs are the AOL of computers. no they aren't. They put you in a suburban playpen that doesn't even make any sense. and take care of security for you. which is a good thing. It's not failsafe, nothing is 100% failsafe. however, macs are among the closest to it. but if you're not going to take the trouble to *really* be careful then a Mac is a much safer choice.... assuming it will run the software you need. macs can run mac/windows/unix software, all natively. no other system can do that. |
#28
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Windows 10. Horrible!
"Whisky-dave" wrote
Long story short, WannaCry was just a single bug that happened to be patched in Win10. | Just happened to be patched how did that happen, fairy dust in the air ? You're missing the point. David gave a real example of a bug that Win10 is protected from. But it's only one bug of thousands in a complex "ecosystem". You're indulging in twisting valid facts into invalid cherry picking. But the way it attacked was through SMB -- networking functionality. For anyone not on a corporate network it doesn't need to be a risk at all. | windows computers are on corporate networks you know. I don't know about you but my compter isn't. I've disabled networking functions and blocked risky ports. By networking I don't mean connecting to the Internet. I mean being part of a network, with things like remote running of software, file sharing, etc. The corporate model is like a house with no front door lock but a lock on every cabinet and door inside. The network is trused. The person using the computer is not. The SOHo model is the opposite. The person using the computer is trusted but the Internet is not. Windows is designed to be a corporate workstation. Highly risky networking functionality that most people don't need is enabled by default. | And why attack SMB ? Look it up. I already explained it. | So why weren't Macs compromised ? Macs are safer because Apple closely controls the system. Macs are the AOL of computers. You get less control but in exchange you get more stability and security without needing to understand it. Macs are also a very small minority of computers. Big with phones, but almost non-existent in places like hospitals and police depts and other corporate locations being attacked. But be patient. Macs will get their chance, I'm sure. | So it wasn't the NSA then was it. I gave you 5 links. But all you want to do is use the data to argue about how Macs are better. I'm not going to join your mudfest. but I know a lot of people who do nearly everything electronically. Direct deposit, automatic withdrawal, credit cards and debit cards to buy food and other necessities. | I do, but not using windows. That's good. Stick with Macs. If you can't be bothered to understand security then Macs are a much safer option. If you want to enjoy e-conveniences, services and shopping without worry then Macs and iPhones are the only way to do it. At least for now. So why are you worrying about me using Windows? The AppleSeed doth protest too much? |
#29
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Windows 10. Horrible!
"Whisky-dave" wrote
You don't need any of them on a Mac. Most things don;t need flash use HTML5 . I think java is disable on macs as default, don't need acrobat either preview read virtually all PDFs , don;t need office either. And no on eshould really be using IE. So why are you in this discussion? You don't understand security. You don't care. You know nothing about Windows. We're talking about Win10. You've just chimed in to say, "I love Macs!!", sounding like a Jehovah's Witness who just keeps telling everyone, over and over, that they're going to Hell because they don't accept the same God. (Lord Jobs in your case.) |
#30
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Windows 10. Horrible!
In article , Mayayana
wrote: I don't know about you but my compter isn't. I've disabled networking functions and blocked risky ports. By networking I don't mean connecting to the Internet. I mean being part of a network, with things like remote running of software, file sharing, etc. the 1980s wants you back. The corporate model is like a house with no front door lock but a lock on every cabinet and door inside. The network is trused. The person using the computer is not. The SOHo model is the opposite. The person using the computer is trusted but the Internet is not. Windows is designed to be a corporate workstation. Highly risky networking functionality that most people don't need is enabled by default. one reason why it's so vulnerable. | So why weren't Macs compromised ? Macs are safer because Apple closely controls the system. nope. it's because macs are inherently more secure and it's a *lot* harder to compromise them. Macs are the AOL of computers. meaningless idiocy. You get less control but in exchange you get more stability and security without needing to understand it. nonsense. there's as much control as the user wants to exert. this has been explained to you before. Macs are also a very small minority of computers. not really. for photography, video and graphic arts, macs are very widespread. for other segments, they're not. pick the best tool for the job. only ignorant consumers would buy based on popularity rather than how well it can handle a given task. Big with phones, but almost non-existent in places like hospitals and police depts and other corporate locations being attacked. wrong, but even if that's true, so what? mcdonald's sells the most hamburgers. that doesn't mean they're any good. But be patient. Macs will get their chance, I'm sure. they're doing exceptionally well, despite your protesting. |
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