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Apollo 11 Lunar landing - 40th aniversary



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 30th 09, 11:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: 5,285
Default Apollo 11 Lunar landing - 40th aniversary

Bill Graham wrote:
"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message


It isn't clear to me how I have ever profited from manned space exploration
in any way whatsoever to this day.


That's your problem. You haven't done your research, and only
you really know what's relevant to your life.

Obviously you expect something glamourous, when the reality is more
like 'occulation and sanitation' --- something done routinely which
has profound effects ... and isn't even thought about any more.

None of the TV/communication satellites
needed manned space shots......


Fact is that only manned space travel forced manrated rockets.
Manrating rockets will of course cause enormously increased
knowledge about the specific rockets and much of that knowledge can
be transferred to other rockets --- you don't have to start over at
zero each time.

Point: The Saturn V had twice engine failures. Because the same
Saturn V had an advanced computer it could not only compensate the
failures but could do so autonomously, recalculating and adjusting
the trajectory as it went --- and thus all starts were successfull.
This advanced computer had of course impacts on the advancement
of computers in general.

Point: The LEM had a couple computers as well, and their
capabilities were much increased over the lunar landings.
Of course the knowledge gained on building better, smaller
computers was not ignored for satellites.

I have always been more than willing to finance non-manned space
shots, both for exploration, as well as for practical things like
communication. It was only the manned stuff like Apollo that I
objected to, and I am still objecting to these, because we can still
learn 90% as much for 10% of the money with unmanned shots.


Sexual education movies can cover 90% for much less than 10%
what a baby costs --- and will not transmit diseases either.

Yet I've got the feeling the real thing is necessary for the
human race.

There may be some argument for using manned repairmen to service some
of the communications and optical equipment we have in orbit, but
even there, one could argue that it is probably cheaper to just build
another one and orbit it than to attempt to fix it on location.....


Hubble was an experiment designed to also test if repairing and
enhancing in orbit is feasible and worth the money. It turns out
it really needed fixing and taught us much about the processes,
even if it also turns out that replacing currently is often
cheaper.

Certainly this would be true were it not for the fact that the money
has already been spent to develop space suits and livable space
stations and the like, so we might as well use them.


The money for space suits is peanuts, and space station knowledge
will also serve us well when we'll settle on the ocean floors.
Given that the oceans have vast resources (though much much less
than asteroids offer) and that living space is going to be dear
if there will not be a *successfull* global (really *everyone*
involved global) change of the population curve.

-Wolfgang
  #2  
Old July 31st 09, 02:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Bill Graham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,294
Default Apollo 11 Lunar landing - 40th aniversary


"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
...
Bill Graham wrote:
"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message


It isn't clear to me how I have ever profited from manned space
exploration
in any way whatsoever to this day.


That's your problem. You haven't done your research, and only
you really know what's relevant to your life.

Obviously you expect something glamourous, when the reality is more
like 'occulation and sanitation' --- something done routinely which
has profound effects ... and isn't even thought about any more.

None of the TV/communication satellites
needed manned space shots......


Fact is that only manned space travel forced manrated rockets.
Manrating rockets will of course cause enormously increased
knowledge about the specific rockets and much of that knowledge can
be transferred to other rockets --- you don't have to start over at
zero each time.

Point: The Saturn V had twice engine failures. Because the same
Saturn V had an advanced computer it could not only compensate the
failures but could do so autonomously, recalculating and adjusting
the trajectory as it went --- and thus all starts were successfull.
This advanced computer had of course impacts on the advancement
of computers in general.


So? - You make my point. They didn't neeed men on board.....


Point: The LEM had a couple computers as well, and their
capabilities were much increased over the lunar landings.
Of course the knowledge gained on building better, smaller
computers was not ignored for satellites.



So why have men on board, if computers can do the job fine without them?


I have always been more than willing to finance non-manned space
shots, both for exploration, as well as for practical things like
communication. It was only the manned stuff like Apollo that I
objected to, and I am still objecting to these, because we can still
learn 90% as much for 10% of the money with unmanned shots.


Sexual education movies can cover 90% for much less than 10%
what a baby costs --- and will not transmit diseases either.

Yet I've got the feeling the real thing is necessary for the
human race.


Your "feelings" are costing us billions of dollars.....Perhaps you should
lie down for a while until your feelings go away.....


There may be some argument for using manned repairmen to service some
of the communications and optical equipment we have in orbit, but
even there, one could argue that it is probably cheaper to just build
another one and orbit it than to attempt to fix it on location.....


Hubble was an experiment designed to also test if repairing and
enhancing in orbit is feasible and worth the money. It turns out
it really needed fixing and taught us much about the processes,
even if it also turns out that replacing currently is often
cheaper.

Certainly this would be true were it not for the fact that the money
has already been spent to develop space suits and livable space
stations and the like, so we might as well use them.


The money for space suits is peanuts, and space station knowledge
will also serve us well when we'll settle on the ocean floors.
Given that the oceans have vast resources (though much much less
than asteroids offer) and that living space is going to be dear
if there will not be a *successfull* global (really *everyone*
involved global) change of the population curve.

-Wolfgang


Even with undersea exploration, unmanned robots are certainly the way to
go......Having to protect men from the horrendous pressures that exist 4 or
5 miles deep is ridiculous, when a mechanical photographer can do 90% of the
work for only 10% of the money.....Have you ever taken any courses in
business management?

  #3  
Old August 5th 09, 02:59 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Wolfgang Weisselberg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,285
Default Apollo 11 Lunar landing - 40th aniversary

Bill Graham wrote:
"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message


Manrating rockets [...]


Point: The Saturn V had twice engine failures. Because the same
Saturn V had an advanced computer it could not only compensate the

[...]

So? - You make my point. They didn't neeed men on board.....


And the Saturn V had no men on board. It had a computer ...
and a payload. And it had that sort of computer because it
was a manrated rocket.

Point: The LEM had a couple computers as well, and their
capabilities were much increased over the lunar landings.
Of course the knowledge gained on building better, smaller
computers was not ignored for satellites.


So why have men on board, if computers can do the job fine without them?


Cause computers cannot do the job fine without them. You might
have to LOOK UP the details of the Apollo 11 landing; human
interaction was critical twice for a safe landing.

You either don't even know what you rant against (always a
bad sign) or, worse, you misrepresent the truth.

I have always been more than willing to finance non-manned space
shots, both for exploration, as well as for practical things like
communication. It was only the manned stuff like Apollo that I
objected to, and I am still objecting to these, because we can still
learn 90% as much for 10% of the money with unmanned shots.


Sexual education movies can cover 90% for much less than 10%
what a baby costs --- and will not transmit diseases either.


Yet I've got the feeling the real thing is necessary for the
human race.


Your "feelings" are costing us billions of dollars.....


I have power over billions of dollars? I don't even have any
*ugly* assistants, never mind pretty ones!

What has become of the trappings of power! Whatever happened
to the dollar, devalued so that you need many billions for a
hot dog or a burger --- oh, yes, I remember, the formerly
great United States lost --- no, never even started --- the
race for asteroid resources.

Perhaps you should lie down for a while until your feelings go
away.....


Now I, as Lord And Master over Billions Of Dollars, Tell You,
without the real thing humanity will be dying out and the last
humans will die within 100 years from now. Babies are *necessary*,
even if they cost money. Lying down will not alter that.

Now, speaking of lying down, how about that pretty assistant
I was supposed to have?

The money for space suits is peanuts, and space station knowledge
will also serve us well when we'll settle on the ocean floors.
Given that the oceans have vast resources (though much much less
than asteroids offer) and that living space is going to be dear
if there will not be a *successfull* global (really *everyone*
involved global) change of the population curve.


Even with undersea exploration,


Please read what I wrote. I didn't say "exploration", I didn't
say "exploitation", I said "settle". You know, what people did
in the American West between when there were only Indians and now.

Or would reading actually hurt your agenda?

go......Having to protect men from the horrendous pressures that exist 4 or
5 miles deep is ridiculous,


It's ridiculously cheap, Bathyscopes are.
Of course, you are always trying to settle the Mariana Trench
instead of the continental shelf because you don't aim for
realistic scenarios.

when a mechanical photographer can do 90% of the
work for only 10% of the money.....


It can make babies, invent, manufacture, learn, react autonomously,
teach classes, collect, classify, name, test, observe, repair,
make judgement calls, allocate, priorize, measure, describe,
write papers, assist, study, hold conferences --- and all that
for only 10%? You must share the construction details some day.

Have you ever taken any courses in business management?


Are you talking about the same courses that caused all these many
banks to collapse recently? Must be very expensive, these courses,
learning how to destroy so much money so fast.

-Wolfgang
  #4  
Old August 5th 09, 06:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,alt.photography,rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Charles E Hardwidge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Apollo 11 Lunar landing - 40th aniversary

"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote in message
...

Cause computers cannot do the job fine without them. You might
have to LOOK UP the details of the Apollo 11 landing; human
interaction was critical twice for a safe landing.


Please read what I wrote. I didn't say "exploration", I didn't
say "exploitation", I said "settle". You know, what people did
in the American West between when there were only Indians and now.


Are you talking about the same courses that caused all these many
banks to collapse recently? Must be very expensive, these courses,
learning how to destroy so much money so fast.


Some good comment there.

Technology is marvellous and can do many useful things but I've seen plenty
of geologists comment that it's not a substitute for being there. Building
machines with the necessary IQ and dexterity isn't there yet.

What's the point of getting out of bed in the morning? We still have to find
something to do and enjoy, or we'd just be a waste of DNA. We may be anyway
but at least it takes our minds off it.

I've done those management courses. Some are very good and some managers are
excellent but you can find the same lessons walking down the street and
great people everywhere. One just has to look.

--
Charles E Hardwidge

 




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