RB67 for Mamiya 7/7II

Yup, I'll trade ya! Well, I will, but that's not the point of this post.
The two cameras are apples and oranges, but I'm considering trading up.
Listen to what I'm saying, and then tell me if I'm crazy, or not.

My RB67 was used and abused by the time I acquired it. I have two very nice
lenses for it, a 65mm C lens, and the infamous 150mm C softfocus, both
purchased from KEH, used in excellent condition. I also have a 90mm
(non-C), which I never use (came with the camera). I had the whole thing
CLA'd (not the two "newer" lenses), so it's not in bad shape, but the 120
back that came with it practically fell apart when I got it, and, two years
after having it rebuilt, it's on the fritz again. My 220 back needs new
light seals, too. Additionally, I find it difficult to focus the camera,
and it's heavy as hell, too--of course, I knew that going in. I like its
ability to close focus (3.5 inches with the 65mm), and the soft focus lens
is quite sweet, too, but not for every occasion.

I want the rangefinder for its legendary lenses, its portability, its
accurate meter, its ease of use, its ease of focus, and the fact that it's
somewhat discreet. I shoot a couple weddings every summer, and think the
Mamiya 7 will work as well as the RB67, as two to three 220 rolls should
cover the group portraits/formals, and they can wait a minute or two for me
to change the film (especially at my rates). For the rest I use 35mm,
anyway. I guess my greatest fear is the loss of options. You can neither
do telephoto (I don't go much beyond 200), nor close-focus (I must admit, I
don't do a great deal of that, either). Still, it's nice to have options,
and I'm afraid I'll just end up carrying a small 35mm kit to augment the
mamiya. Then again, maybe that's not a bad idea.

Obviously the price on the RB67 is plummeting, so, even with the money made
selling the RB67 equipment, I'll still have to pony up some of my own dough
just to get the Mamiya and a basic 80mm lens, but I'm willing to do that, if
it's not a crazy move--what do you think?

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

From: "Matt Clara"

Listen to what I'm saying, and then tell me if I'm crazy, or not.

I want the rangefinder for its legendary lenses, its portability, its
accurate meter, its ease of use, its ease of focus, and the fact that it's
somewhat discreet.

We have two bodies and five lenses for this system ... the lenses are great,
portability is great, I guess it's discreet. Love the image quality and large
prints. But ...

The meter is accurate to a point but it's easy to get bad readings since it's
basically heavily center weighted to the viewfinder (not the lens) and
consequently the wider lenses end up with a very narrow metering area, so you
have to be careful there. For landscape work I usually carry a 1 degree
spotmeter and use that to meter the tricky scenes when using this camera and
often overrule the camera's reading.

"ease of focus" is a joke. One of the lenses won't focus at all (210 mm),
meaning it doesn't couple to the rangefinder or an optical finder, you simply
have to measure the distance or guesstimate it. Another lens (43 mm) focusses
thru the viewfinder but the viewfinder can't show the correct field of view for
the lens, you need a second finder attached to the hotshoe for that. So you
focus thru one window and frame thru another.

Even the lenses we have that act "normal" focus-wise (65, 80, 150 mm) don't
focus very quickly for me and my eyes. I can focus my Pentax 645 much faster
than I can this system, for example. I think it's a quirky focus system so
maybe you can try it ahead of time with the lenses you hope to own and see if
it fits your needs.

even with the money made
selling the RB67 equipment, I'll still have to pony up some of my own dough
just to get the Mamiya and a basic 80mm lens

You might find that the lenses are a lot cheaper if you buy from Hong Kong or
Robert White in England, since Mamiya USA has such a monopoly that there are no
grey market items available in the US and prices are ridiculous. I saved
almost $1,000 buying the 43 mm from Robert White for example, compared to the
B&H price on the same lens. I think I'd still buy the body here in the states
just to get the warranty and ensure service. This may be the most fragile
camera body I've ever owned, on one of them the rangefinder simply quit working
(wouldn't focus) one day after a couple years of moderate use and zero rough
handling and it cost several hundred bucks to get it fixed.

... if it's not a crazy move--what do you think?

The image quality is great but there are a lot of quirks with this system.
Make sure you understand them before you dive in.

Bill

"Bill Hilton" wrote in message
...
From: "Matt Clara"

Listen to what I'm saying, and then tell me if I'm crazy, or not.

I want the rangefinder for its legendary lenses, its portability, its
accurate meter, its ease of use, its ease of focus, and the fact that
it's
somewhat discreet.

We have two bodies and five lenses for this system ... the lenses are
great,
portability is great, I guess it's discreet. Love the image quality and
large
prints. But ...

The meter is accurate to a point but it's easy to get bad readings since
it's
basically heavily center weighted to the viewfinder (not the lens) and
consequently the wider lenses end up with a very narrow metering area, so
you
have to be careful there. For landscape work I usually carry a 1 degree
spotmeter and use that to meter the tricky scenes when using this camera
and
often overrule the camera's reading.

"ease of focus" is a joke. One of the lenses won't focus at all (210 mm),
meaning it doesn't couple to the rangefinder or an optical finder, you
simply
have to measure the distance or guesstimate it. Another lens (43 mm)
focusses
thru the viewfinder but the viewfinder can't show the correct field of
view for
the lens, you need a second finder attached to the hotshoe for that. So
you
focus thru one window and frame thru another.

Even the lenses we have that act "normal" focus-wise (65, 80, 150 mm)
don't
focus very quickly for me and my eyes. I can focus my Pentax 645 much
faster
than I can this system, for example. I think it's a quirky focus system
so
maybe you can try it ahead of time with the lenses you hope to own and see
if
it fits your needs.

even with the money made
selling the RB67 equipment, I'll still have to pony up some of my own
dough
just to get the Mamiya and a basic 80mm lens

You might find that the lenses are a lot cheaper if you buy from Hong Kong
or
Robert White in England, since Mamiya USA has such a monopoly that there
are no
grey market items available in the US and prices are ridiculous. I saved
almost $1,000 buying the 43 mm from Robert White for example, compared to
the
B&H price on the same lens. I think I'd still buy the body here in the
states
just to get the warranty and ensure service. This may be the most fragile
camera body I've ever owned, on one of them the rangefinder simply quit
working
(wouldn't focus) one day after a couple years of moderate use and zero
rough
handling and it cost several hundred bucks to get it fixed.

... if it's not a crazy move--what do you think?

The image quality is great but there are a lot of quirks with this system.
Make sure you understand them before you dive in.

Bill

Thanks for your reply, Bill--I was hoping for some more input from others as
well, but none seems forthcoming. Be that as it may, do you know of any
online camera stores based in Japan with the great Mamiya prices of which
you speak? Used equipment would be acceptable, too.

--
Thanks,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

From: "Matt Clara"

do you know of any online camera stores based in Japan with the
great Mamiya prices of which you speak?

Bob Monaghan's excellent MF site has a lengthy page on buying grey market from
the various Asian dealers and countries. Dealing with Robert White in England
worked well for me too. The site's a bit old (May 2000) but still a great
resource.

http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/hongkong.html

I got knicked a few quid for extra shipping (I think it was $50 instead of the
$20 from B&H), a few percent from my credit card company for doing the currency
exchange, and quite a few bucks from Customs for duty charges (this showed up
later on my Fed Ex bill since I have an account with them, at first I thought I
had slipped thru the net but it was still worth it on an expensive lens
because Mamiya USA has such an exhorbitant mark-up and has blocked commercial
grey market imports. Just factor in these likely extra charges when comparing
the base prices.

Bill

"Matt Clara" wrote in message
.. .
"
Thanks for your reply, Bill--I was hoping for some more input from others
as
well, but none seems forthcoming. Be that as it may, do you know of any
online camera stores based in Japan with the great Mamiya prices of which
you speak? Used equipment would be acceptable, too.

--
Thanks,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com


Matt, FYI, Mamiya America will not perform warrantee service on select
equipment they deem to be gray market. I was also told that when I order
parts for those cameras I would be asked for the serial number. If the
number was shown to be gray market Mamiya America would not sell the parts.
I will see if I can get a list of cameras they will question for you.

From: "Mike"

Matt, FYI, Mamiya America will not perform warrantee service on select
equipment they deem to be gray market.

That's one reason I suggested buying the body with a US warranty but getting
the lenses elsewhere.

"Bill Hilton" wrote in message
...
From: "Mike"

Matt, FYI, Mamiya America will not perform warrantee service on select
equipment they deem to be gray market.

That's one reason I suggested buying the body with a US warranty but
getting
the lenses elsewhere.

I understand Bill what I don't know yet is, do any of the lenses fall in to
their gray market category.

"Mike" wrote in message
link.net...

"Matt Clara" wrote in message
.. .
"
Thanks for your reply, Bill--I was hoping for some more input from
others
as
well, but none seems forthcoming. Be that as it may, do you know of any
online camera stores based in Japan with the great Mamiya prices of
which
you speak? Used equipment would be acceptable, too.

--
Thanks,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com


Matt, FYI, Mamiya America will not perform warrantee service on select
equipment they deem to be gray market. I was also told that when I order
parts for those cameras I would be asked for the serial number. If the
number was shown to be gray market Mamiya America would not sell the
parts.
I will see if I can get a list of cameras they will question for you.



You do repairs on Mamiya equipment, do you not, Mike?

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com

From: "Mike"

I understand Bill what I don't know yet is, do any of the lenses fall in
to their gray market category.

Mamiya gives that impression, and for warranty work that's what I'd expect.
Not sure if they'll refuse to work on a grey market item that's out of
warranty, or if that's even legal anymore.

I personally felt that a body is a lot more likely to fail than a lens so I was
willing to go grey on the lens but not on a body. I did have a body fail
(rangefinder wouldn't couple to the lenses) but natcherly this happened after
the warranty had run out.

Mamiya USA seems to have a much tighter hold (more like a legal death grip) on
grey market imports than the 35 mm vendors like Canon USA or Nikon and we pay
for it in higher prices on some of their products.

Bill

"Matt Clara" wrote in message
.. .
"Mike" wrote in message
link.net...


Matt, FYI, Mamiya America will not perform warrantee service on select
equipment they deem to be gray market. I was also told that when I
order
parts for those cameras I would be asked for the serial number. If the
number was shown to be gray market Mamiya America would not sell the
parts.
I will see if I can get a list of cameras they will question for you.



You do repairs on Mamiya equipment, do you not, Mike?

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com


Yes I do Matt. RB, SD, RZ, and a couple of 7II's and TLR equipment.
My web site is www.fridaycreekcamera.com
Mamiya America is my first call in the AM to see what they say about gray
market.
And what they will or will not provide warrantee service for.
Mike