question about chemical developers

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message ...
On 12/23/2004 7:19 AM Beppe Alborè spake thus:

i've heard that there are some ecological developers, without a substance
called "hidroquinone".

Speaking of hydroquinone, do y'all realize that this is the chemical agent
thought to be responsible for Michael Jackson's death pallor?

- http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/Freeze2b.html *
- http://www.snopes.com/photos/jackson.asp
- http://www.robertkotlermd.com/people_news.htm

* actually, they say it's "a cream containing monobenzyl ether of
hydroquinone (also called benoquin)"

Yep, and this was the reason France promulgated a law obliging all photo shops to put the developers
containing hydroquinone in closed cupboards ...

Regards,
--
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch

wrote:

LR Kalajainen wrote:


Here's a very simple mix-it-yourself formula

6 g. Sodium carbonate
4 g. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
4 ml. 1% Phenidone solution
1 liter of water.




Looked like FX-1 so I checked my copy of P. Dignan's
Classic B&W Formulas. An article there by Gerald Koch,
High Acutance Developers, includes a few formulas;
Beutler, FX-1, FX-13, and Mason.
Mason: .5 gram metol, 5 gram sulfite, and 5.85 gram
carbonate. A trace of iodide is indicated but I think
usually ignored.
I found Beutler too active and FX-1 about right with
Pan F+. Mason's is the same as FX-1 save that it has
twice the carbonate.
I'd think your formula more like Mason's. That A.
acid will need the extra carbonate to give more
like FX-1 results.
BTW, is that carbonate the mono or deca hydrate?
Washing soda is the decahydrate. That would make
a big difference. I'd think then your formula
more like FX-1. Dan



That is essentially my formula that I published in Darkroom and Creative
Photo Techniques in 1994. There were several variations of it in that
article.

wrote:

LR Kalajainen wrote:


Here's a very simple mix-it-yourself formula

6 g. Sodium carbonate
4 g. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
4 ml. 1% Phenidone solution
1 liter of water.




Looked like FX-1 so I checked my copy of P. Dignan's
Classic B&W Formulas. An article there by Gerald Koch,
High Acutance Developers, includes a few formulas;
Beutler, FX-1, FX-13, and Mason.
Mason: .5 gram metol, 5 gram sulfite, and 5.85 gram
carbonate. A trace of iodide is indicated but I think
usually ignored.
I found Beutler too active and FX-1 about right with
Pan F+. Mason's is the same as FX-1 save that it has
twice the carbonate.
I'd think your formula more like Mason's. That A.
acid will need the extra carbonate to give more
like FX-1 results.
BTW, is that carbonate the mono or deca hydrate?
Washing soda is the decahydrate. That would make
a big difference. I'd think then your formula
more like FX-1. Dan



That is essentially my formula that I published in Darkroom and Creative
Photo Techniques in 1994. There were several variations of it in that
article.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/23/2004 7:19 AM Beppe Alborè spake thus:

i've heard that there are some ecological developers, without a substance
called "hidroquinone".


Speaking of hydroquinone, do y'all realize that this is the chemical
agent thought to be responsible for Michael Jackson's death pallor?

- http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/Freeze2b.html *
- http://www.snopes.com/photos/jackson.asp
- http://www.robertkotlermd.com/people_news.htm

* actually, they say it's "a cream containing monobenzyl ether of
hydroquinone (also called benoquin)"



I believe that Hydroquinone was used successfully in fighting malaria in
the past, and this is why it was common enough in the early days of
photography, when they were trying different compounds to see what could
be used as developing agents, it was found to work, and didn't stain the
hands, as some other chemicals do....

W

I suggest Xtol for film and Agfa Neutol Plus for paper. Both are
Phenidone and Ascorbic acid developers with very low toxicity and good
environmental properties.
Xtol is sometimes subject to short term loss of activity. I've had
this happen recently. However, I don't know of another film developer
with only these ingredients. Most other Phenidone film developers also
contain hydroquinone. Hydroquinone is not particularly hazardous in a
photographic developer but has environmental problems.
In general, liquid concentrate developers are less hazardous than
powdered ones because they eliminate the danger of airborne particles.
There are a number of good liquid concentrate film developers on the
market, Kodak T-Max and T-Max RS being among them. Both use a form of
Phenidone and Hydroquinone. Agfa Neutol Plus is a liquid concentrate.
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

Richard's correct about Xtol and Neutol.

A home-made version which also does not use Hydroquinone is
5 g sodium metaborate or 6 g sodium carbonate (depending on desired
level of activity)
4 g ascorbic acid (Vitamin C powder)
4 ml 1% Phenidone solution (1 g Phenidone dissolved in 100 ml either 90%
alcohol or propylene glycol)

Starting times at 22C. or 70F:
Delta 400 (with metaborate): 6 minutes
Delta 100 (with carbonate): 6:45 (with metaborate) 10 minutes
Fuji ACROS (with carbonate) 7 (with metaborate) 10 minutes
Fuji Neopan (with carbonate) 6:30

substituting borax in the above formula for the carbonate or metaborate
will give similar results but somewhat longer times.

Larry

Richard Knoppow wrote:

I suggest Xtol for film and Agfa Neutol Plus for paper. Both are
Phenidone and Ascorbic acid developers with very low toxicity and good
environmental properties.
Xtol is sometimes subject to short term loss of activity. I've had
this happen recently. However, I don't know of another film developer
with only these ingredients. Most other Phenidone film developers also
contain hydroquinone. Hydroquinone is not particularly hazardous in a
photographic developer but has environmental problems.
In general, liquid concentrate developers are less hazardous than
powdered ones because they eliminate the danger of airborne particles.
There are a number of good liquid concentrate film developers on the
market, Kodak T-Max and T-Max RS being among them. Both use a form of
Phenidone and Hydroquinone. Agfa Neutol Plus is a liquid concentrate.
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:45:00 -0500, The Wogster
wrote:


I believe that Hydroquinone was used successfully in fighting malaria in
the past, and this is why it was common enough in the early days of
photography, ....

Perhaps you were thinking of quinine ? Not that hydroquinone
and quinine aren't related. In fact quinine is a very complex compound
as shown in the following :

"quinine bark chemicals include: aricine, caffeic acid,
cinchofulvic acid, cincholic acid, cinchonain, cinchonidine,
cinchonine, cinchophyllamine, cinchotannic acid, cinchotine,
conquinamine, cuscamidine, cuscamine, cusconidine, cusconine,
epicatechin, javanine, paricine, proanthocyanidins, quinacimine,
quinamine, quinic acid, quinicine, quinine, quininidine, quinovic
acid, quinovin, and sucirubine."

It was used to treat numerous ailments though malaria was
certainly it's cheif usage.

Quinine - C20H24N2O2

The following from :

http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclec...hona_alka.html

Thus, by the ring-arrangement of atoms peculiar to this series, there
are formed from Benzene, (C6H6), the following substances, viz.:—

Phenol, or Carbolic Acid, C6H5OH-by replacing H by OH, (hydroxyl).
Pyrocatechin, or Ortho-di-hydroxy-benzene, C6H4(OH)2—by replacing 2H
by 2OH.
Resorcin, or Meta-di-hydroxy-benzene, C6H4(OH)2—by replacing 2H by
2OH.
Hydroquinone, or Para-di-hydroxy-benzene C6H4(OH)2—by replacing 2H by
2OH.
Pyrogallol, Pyrogallic Acid, Tri-hydroxybenzene C6H3(OH)3,—3H by 3OH.
Amido-benzene, or Anilin, C6H5.NH2—by replacing H by NH2 (amidogen).
Nitro-benzene, C6H5.NO2—by replacing H by NO2 (nitroxyl).
Benzoic Acid, C6H5CO.OH—by replacing H by CO.OH (carboxyl).
Salicylic Acid, HC7H5O3—by replacing 2H by OH and CO.OH.
Naphtaline, C10H8—by uniting two Benzenes in an overlapping ring.
Pyridin, C5H5N—by replacing tetrad C by triad N.
Chinolin, C9H7N—uniting Benzene (C6H6) and Pyridin (C5H5N)

Most interesting. I never cease to be amazed at the usage of
these chemicals.


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

On 12/28/2004 2:56 PM John spake thus:

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:45:00 -0500, The Wogster
wrote:

I believe that Hydroquinone was used successfully in fighting malaria in
the past, and this is why it was common enough in the early days of
photography, ....

Perhaps you were thinking of quinine ? Not that hydroquinone
and quinine aren't related. In fact quinine is a very complex compound
as shown in the following :

"quinine bark chemicals include: aricine, caffeic acid,
cinchofulvic acid, cincholic acid, cinchonain, cinchonidine,
cinchonine, cinchophyllamine, cinchotannic acid, cinchotine,
conquinamine, cuscamidine, cuscamine, cusconidine, cusconine,
epicatechin, javanine, paricine, proanthocyanidins, quinacimine,
quinamine, quinic acid, quinicine, quinine, quininidine, quinovic
acid, quinovin, and sucirubine."

Plus, doesn't quinine figure in that most essential of social substances,
namely tonic water? Where would mixed drinks be without it?


--
Today's bull**** job description:

• Collaborate to produce operational procedures for the systems management
of the production Information Technology infrastructure.

- from an actual job listing on Craigslist (http://www.craigslist.org)

On 12/28/2004 2:56 PM John spake thus:

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:45:00 -0500, The Wogster
wrote:

I believe that Hydroquinone was used successfully in fighting malaria in
the past, and this is why it was common enough in the early days of
photography, ....

Perhaps you were thinking of quinine ? Not that hydroquinone
and quinine aren't related. In fact quinine is a very complex compound
as shown in the following :

"quinine bark chemicals include: aricine, caffeic acid,
cinchofulvic acid, cincholic acid, cinchonain, cinchonidine,
cinchonine, cinchophyllamine, cinchotannic acid, cinchotine,
conquinamine, cuscamidine, cuscamine, cusconidine, cusconine,
epicatechin, javanine, paricine, proanthocyanidins, quinacimine,
quinamine, quinic acid, quinicine, quinine, quininidine, quinovic
acid, quinovin, and sucirubine."

Plus, doesn't quinine figure in that most essential of social substances,
namely tonic water? Where would mixed drinks be without it?


--
Today's bull**** job description:

• Collaborate to produce operational procedures for the systems management
of the production Information Technology infrastructure.

- from an actual job listing on Craigslist (http://www.craigslist.org)