Fibre &^#*%^$*!!!!

"Stefano Bramato" wrote [In the thread
"*&^*&%! Fibre paper"]:

The book _Way Beyond Monochrome_ [is] excellent
That book is stunning, I bought since 6 months ago and is *illuminato*.

I'll third that opinion. _Way Beyond Monochrome_: a superb book.
Required reading.

There aren't too many:

Controls in B&W, Henry: The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth.

Kodak Darkroom Dataguide, Pocket Photo Dataguide (out of print?),
Professional Photo Dataguide: Just the facts, Ma'm.

Basic Photographic Materials and Processes, Stroebel et. al.: One
year at RIT.

The Cookbooks, Anchell and Troop: If you are into cooking.

The Making of 50 Photographs, Ansel Adams: It seems AA never used the zone
system for his really good shots: He was in a rush; munged the exposure;
couldn't find the meter; it was his last sheet of film ...; and I feel
so much better knowing all that.

The Hungry Eye, Walker Evans; Brett Weston, Bret Weston; Ditto
Edward & the Day Books; The Decisive Moment, Bresson; Family of
Man, Steichen (I'm a sentimental old fogey); Lartigue, Doisenau,
Steigletz, Lange, Bourke-White, Rowell, Adams: A good does of humility

Why People Photograph, Robert Adams: Good question to try and answer.

Criticizing Photographs, Terry Barrett: Essential theory.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Stefano Bramato" wrote [In the thread
"*&^*&%! Fibre paper"]:

The book _Way Beyond Monochrome_ [is] excellent
That book is stunning, I bought since 6 months ago and is *illuminato*.

I'll third that opinion. _Way Beyond Monochrome_: a superb book.
Required reading.

There aren't too many:


I picked it up in November in Arizona and read most of it through on my way
back to Germany via military 'hop and waits'. I found the chapters on
masking to be very informative as well. Really well worth it for the
advanced darkroom worker (and likely why MS didn't know about split-grade -
but you know, he knows more about monochrome than anyone on the planet...).

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Stefano Bramato" wrote [In the thread
"*&^*&%! Fibre paper"]:

The book _Way Beyond Monochrome_ [is] excellent
That book is stunning, I bought since 6 months ago and is *illuminato*.

I'll third that opinion. _Way Beyond Monochrome_: a superb book.
Required reading.

There aren't too many:


I picked it up in November in Arizona and read most of it through on my way
back to Germany via military 'hop and waits'. I found the chapters on
masking to be very informative as well. Really well worth it for the
advanced darkroom worker (and likely why MS didn't know about split-grade -
but you know, he knows more about monochrome than anyone on the planet...).

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:55:55 -0500, John Bartley
wrote:

I wonder if maybe some of the grizzled old vets of the darkroom could
chew the rag a bit regarding the differences between RC and Fibre paper.




jan1005 from Lloyd Erlick,

FB is easy and convenient once you get onto it. It will
never be as easy and convenient as RC, but that only
means if you are doing all this for nothing more than
ease and convenience, work on RC.

If you're crazy enough to load your own film (in the
case of LF workers especially) and process your own
film, plus all the associated craziness, then the small
added difficulty of FB is quite minor.

Personally, I dislike matte surfaces, so comparing an
FB paper with matte surface is unproductive. I also
happen to dislike the glaring, blaring, unsubtle
excessive glossiness of RC glossy surfaces (even more
than I dislike matte). For me, the best surface comes
from FB glossy paper air-dried.

Also, the final look of a print is very much enhanced
by selenium toning. Ilford FB Multigrade has the
reputation of changing very little in selenium, but I
believe most people find it improves subtly. I happen
to like Ilford FB Warmtone (I make portraits, ...), and
the effect of selenium is clear and obvious on this
paper. It is an extremely important processing step,
essential, in fact, to the final appearance, and not
just for archival purposes.

I found the problems of making FB prints nagging, as
you did. I muddled along trying to find a simple way,
and summarized my results in a bunch of pontifications
on my website, under the 'technical' heading in the
table of contents.

Judging by your remarks about paper curling, you should
also read my article on humidity management in the
darkroom. This (in the northern hemisphere) is the time
of year for dryness, static electricity, dust and hair
pulling, which only spreads dandruff on the enlarger. A
humidifier is a cheap alternative to darkroom rage.
When I hear the word 'curling', I think of humidity
readout devices sold cheaply at Radio Shack.

I have worked out an easy way to make FB prints, and
have been doing it for a number of years now. I would
never go back to the drudgery of my past -- that lineup
of trays, selenium toning after the fact so I couldn't
make small adjustments in that step (which potentially
needs small changes in enlarger exposure), etc etc etc.

I don't think I could defend FB over RC very well in a
technical debate, or even an esthetic one. But I do
like FB much better than RC, and have in fact stopped
buying RC at all. Don't judge FB until you have made a
first class print (and there will be no harsher judge
than yourself ...).

And finally, anyone who can submit to the demands of
sheet film has long since taken more and heavier
beatings than FB is capable of dishing out. I just punk
out and use 120 format film. I love FB prints, but I'm
not at all a glutton for punishment!!

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--



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On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:55:55 -0500, John Bartley
wrote:

I wonder if maybe some of the grizzled old vets of the darkroom could
chew the rag a bit regarding the differences between RC and Fibre paper.




jan1005 from Lloyd Erlick,

FB is easy and convenient once you get onto it. It will
never be as easy and convenient as RC, but that only
means if you are doing all this for nothing more than
ease and convenience, work on RC.

If you're crazy enough to load your own film (in the
case of LF workers especially) and process your own
film, plus all the associated craziness, then the small
added difficulty of FB is quite minor.

Personally, I dislike matte surfaces, so comparing an
FB paper with matte surface is unproductive. I also
happen to dislike the glaring, blaring, unsubtle
excessive glossiness of RC glossy surfaces (even more
than I dislike matte). For me, the best surface comes
from FB glossy paper air-dried.

Also, the final look of a print is very much enhanced
by selenium toning. Ilford FB Multigrade has the
reputation of changing very little in selenium, but I
believe most people find it improves subtly. I happen
to like Ilford FB Warmtone (I make portraits, ...), and
the effect of selenium is clear and obvious on this
paper. It is an extremely important processing step,
essential, in fact, to the final appearance, and not
just for archival purposes.

I found the problems of making FB prints nagging, as
you did. I muddled along trying to find a simple way,
and summarized my results in a bunch of pontifications
on my website, under the 'technical' heading in the
table of contents.

Judging by your remarks about paper curling, you should
also read my article on humidity management in the
darkroom. This (in the northern hemisphere) is the time
of year for dryness, static electricity, dust and hair
pulling, which only spreads dandruff on the enlarger. A
humidifier is a cheap alternative to darkroom rage.
When I hear the word 'curling', I think of humidity
readout devices sold cheaply at Radio Shack.

I have worked out an easy way to make FB prints, and
have been doing it for a number of years now. I would
never go back to the drudgery of my past -- that lineup
of trays, selenium toning after the fact so I couldn't
make small adjustments in that step (which potentially
needs small changes in enlarger exposure), etc etc etc.

I don't think I could defend FB over RC very well in a
technical debate, or even an esthetic one. But I do
like FB much better than RC, and have in fact stopped
buying RC at all. Don't judge FB until you have made a
first class print (and there will be no harsher judge
than yourself ...).

And finally, anyone who can submit to the demands of
sheet film has long since taken more and heavier
beatings than FB is capable of dishing out. I just punk
out and use 120 format film. I love FB prints, but I'm
not at all a glutton for punishment!!

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--



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Thumbs and more Thumbs. And Bassackwards at that.
RC is stiff and difficult to manage. FB is the more manageable.
I think some trim their fingernails too short. Also I suspect
trays are shorter than in years gone by.

I'll second the one-tray way. I use all chemistry one-shot. No
need to worry, I've calibrated solution chemistry so that none
is wasted.

I just finnished calibrating A. Thiosulfate at 5ml concentrate
per 8x10 for 2 minutes at a 1:49 dilution. That dilution will yield
archival results from a one bath fix.
I may switch back to S. Thiosulfate for convenience in mixing. Dan

Thumbs and more Thumbs. And Bassackwards at that.
RC is stiff and difficult to manage. FB is the more manageable.
I think some trim their fingernails too short. Also I suspect
trays are shorter than in years gone by.

I'll second the one-tray way. I use all chemistry one-shot. No
need to worry, I've calibrated solution chemistry so that none
is wasted.

I just finnished calibrating A. Thiosulfate at 5ml concentrate
per 8x10 for 2 minutes at a 1:49 dilution. That dilution will yield
archival results from a one bath fix.
I may switch back to S. Thiosulfate for convenience in mixing. Dan

On 10 Jan 2005 15:17:45 -0800,
wrote:

.... Also I suspect
trays are shorter than in years gone by.
....


jan1005 from Lloyd Erlick,

Me too!

But my trays (well, tray ...) come from those gone-by
years.

I remember my shock after I decided to stop using RC,
and finally had a gen-yew-ine FB 16x20 sheet in the
tray, all nice and soaked in developer, and ... it
touched all four sides of the tray. At the same time!

For all my ranting about things that touch the print
while it's wet, I still keep a print tong at hand. I
use it to slip under the corner of the sheet, and lift
it so my fingers can grasp it after it's rinsed and
ready to be lifted into the washer. There is simply no
space in the tray to get a finger under the print! No
doubt I could follow your suggestion and trim my nails
accordingly, but that is too Weston for me. Still, I'd
be able to take up the guitar...

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--



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On 10 Jan 2005 15:17:45 -0800,
wrote:

.... Also I suspect
trays are shorter than in years gone by.
....


jan1005 from Lloyd Erlick,

Me too!

But my trays (well, tray ...) come from those gone-by
years.

I remember my shock after I decided to stop using RC,
and finally had a gen-yew-ine FB 16x20 sheet in the
tray, all nice and soaked in developer, and ... it
touched all four sides of the tray. At the same time!

For all my ranting about things that touch the print
while it's wet, I still keep a print tong at hand. I
use it to slip under the corner of the sheet, and lift
it so my fingers can grasp it after it's rinsed and
ready to be lifted into the washer. There is simply no
space in the tray to get a finger under the print! No
doubt I could follow your suggestion and trim my nails
accordingly, but that is too Weston for me. Still, I'd
be able to take up the guitar...

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--



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On 10 Jan 2005 15:17:45 -0800,
wrote:

....
I just finnished calibrating A. Thiosulfate at 5ml concentrate
per 8x10 for 2 minutes at a 1:49 dilution. That dilution will yield
archival results from a one bath fix.
I may switch back to S. Thiosulfate for convenience in mixing. Dan
....


jan1005 from Lloyd Erlick,

I thought ammonium thiosulfate was usually sold as an
aqueous solution (60% if I recall?)

Isn't that easy to mix?

I've never seen the stuff. Could describe it?

Thanks.

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net: www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--



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