B/W Photo Processing Dangerous or Harmful with Pregnancy?

Hello,

My wife and I recently found out she is pregnant. We're worried
something may have happened to our baby because she has been going to
school developing photos in a B/W lab.

Here's the gist of what happened: We've traced the conception date to
10/14. We found out today, which is 10/29. Her last visit to the
dark room was on the 24th, ~9 or 10 days after conception. Within
those ~10 days, she went to the dark room 4 times spending a total of
~8 hours in it. She did not use gloves and touched the solution with
her bare fingers. Quickly after touching the solution, she washed her
hands with water, no soap was used. Before the conception date, she's
spent the last 6 weeks in the dark room, maybe once or twice a week.

I already know how stupid we are for doing what we did, so please do
not lecture me on that. I would really like to know if we did any
harm to the baby and if there is anything we can do now besides pray.
Thank you for your help.

-Jason

In article ,
(Jason) wrote:

Hello,

My wife and I recently found out she is pregnant. We're worried
something may have happened to our baby because she has been going to
school developing photos in a B/W lab.

Here's the gist of what happened: We've traced the conception date to
10/14. We found out today, which is 10/29. Her last visit to the
dark room was on the 24th, ~9 or 10 days after conception. Within
those ~10 days, she went to the dark room 4 times spending a total of
~8 hours in it. She did not use gloves and touched the solution with
her bare fingers. Quickly after touching the solution, she washed her
hands with water, no soap was used. Before the conception date, she's
spent the last 6 weeks in the dark room, maybe once or twice a week.

I already know how stupid we are for doing what we did, so please do
not lecture me on that. I would really like to know if we did any
harm to the baby and if there is anything we can do now besides pray.
Thank you for your help.

-Jason

Why wouldn't you ask her doctor?

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.

I'm not sure most ob/gyn's would know the toxicity of common photo
chemicals. Probably better to call the manufacturer of the chemical and
ask what the constituents of each solution (developer, fixer, etc.) are
if there is no list of ingredients on the label. Then do a Google
search on the individual chemicals; this will turn up at least one or
more websites where toxicity descriptions of various chemicals are
located. Many of those descriptions will say whether the chemical can
be absorbed through the skin and the degree of toxicity incurred.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that, depending on what chemicals
your wife was using, she was probably more at risk from fumes than from
touching the solutions. Most darkroom chemicals are fairly harmless,
though there are some that are definitely toxic. That's why you're
right not to take the risk of not knowing. But it is important to
identify the specific chemicals so you can get accurate information.

Bob Salomon wrote:

In article ,
(Jason) wrote:



Hello,

My wife and I recently found out she is pregnant. We're worried
something may have happened to our baby because she has been going to
school developing photos in a B/W lab.

Here's the gist of what happened: We've traced the conception date to
10/14. We found out today, which is 10/29. Her last visit to the
dark room was on the 24th, ~9 or 10 days after conception. Within
those ~10 days, she went to the dark room 4 times spending a total of
~8 hours in it. She did not use gloves and touched the solution with
her bare fingers. Quickly after touching the solution, she washed her
hands with water, no soap was used. Before the conception date, she's
spent the last 6 weeks in the dark room, maybe once or twice a week.

I already know how stupid we are for doing what we did, so please do
not lecture me on that. I would really like to know if we did any
harm to the baby and if there is anything we can do now besides pray.
Thank you for your help.

-Jason



Why wouldn't you ask her doctor?

I'm not sure most ob/gyn's would know the toxicity of common photo
chemicals. Probably better to call the manufacturer of the chemical and
ask what the constituents of each solution (developer, fixer, etc.) are
if there is no list of ingredients on the label. Then do a Google
search on the individual chemicals; this will turn up at least one or
more websites where toxicity descriptions of various chemicals are
located. Many of those descriptions will say whether the chemical can
be absorbed through the skin and the degree of toxicity incurred.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that, depending on what chemicals
your wife was using, she was probably more at risk from fumes than from
touching the solutions. Most darkroom chemicals are fairly harmless,
though there are some that are definitely toxic. That's why you're
right not to take the risk of not knowing. But it is important to
identify the specific chemicals so you can get accurate information.

Bob Salomon wrote:

In article ,
(Jason) wrote:



Hello,

My wife and I recently found out she is pregnant. We're worried
something may have happened to our baby because she has been going to
school developing photos in a B/W lab.

Here's the gist of what happened: We've traced the conception date to
10/14. We found out today, which is 10/29. Her last visit to the
dark room was on the 24th, ~9 or 10 days after conception. Within
those ~10 days, she went to the dark room 4 times spending a total of
~8 hours in it. She did not use gloves and touched the solution with
her bare fingers. Quickly after touching the solution, she washed her
hands with water, no soap was used. Before the conception date, she's
spent the last 6 weeks in the dark room, maybe once or twice a week.

I already know how stupid we are for doing what we did, so please do
not lecture me on that. I would really like to know if we did any
harm to the baby and if there is anything we can do now besides pray.
Thank you for your help.

-Jason



Why wouldn't you ask her doctor?

Jason wrote:
Hello,

My wife and I recently found out she is pregnant. We're worried
something may have happened to our baby because she has been going to
school developing photos in a B/W lab.

Unless she was selenium toning with skin contact or bathing her hands in
developer for prolonged periods, it's unlikely you've done any harm.
There are many professions for which the practitioners pay with
shortened lifespans -- chemists, for instance, have a high incidence of
cancer and organ failures due to solvents used in their work, as do
painters and auto body workers. Photographers have show no such effect,
even those who spend literally decades in daily darkroom work.

There are some people who become sensitized to certain chemicals --
metol, aka Elon, is one, various aldehydes used in non-metal gelatin
hardeners are another (glutaraldehyde is the most common, but it's used
mainly in X-ray processing to protect emulsion at very high process
temperatures needed for rapid results). Pyrogallol is toxic, but not
significantly more so than many other chemicals we use regularly,
including permanent hair dyes. Color developers, bleach, and especially
stabilizer are others for which skin contact should be avoided.

Of these, AFAIK only pyrogallol and metol are known to have significant
skin contact risks, and pyrogallol is rarely if ever used in instruction
for photography; most likely the developer she was using for printing
was Dektol or similar containing metol and hydroquinone. If she doesn't
have a relatively immediate reaction, she's not sensitive, and it's my
understanding metol isn't signifcantly absorbed through the skin.
Developers also typically contains a good bit of sodium sulfite as a
preservative and silver solvent.

Stop bath isn't anything to worry about -- acetic acid, same as vinegar;
if you have a variety without indicator dye, you could drink it without
harm.

Fixer has sodium thiosulfate or ammonium thiosulfate, sodium sulfite as
a preservative (sodium sulfite is also used as a food additive), sodium
metabisulfite (another food additive), and acetic acid (vinegar again).
Sodium thiosulfate is the specific antidote for cyanide poisoning; it
isn't a recommended dietary supplement, but isn't significantly toxic.
The biggest hazard from fixer is sulfur dioxide evolved from a reaction
of the thiosulfate with acid, and this is in very low concentrations.

Used developer and fixer both contained dissolved silver compounds and
complexes, but these aren't normally a skin absorption hazard.

Overall, I'd be surprised if there were a problem -- there's a much
bigger risk if she had a few glasses of wine or beer in the last couple
weeks before learning of the conception, IMO.

Disclaimer: I'm neither a toxicity expert nor a physician -- everything
I've said here should be checked with someone who is qualified to verify
it. Chemical names you'll want besides those above are phenidone,
dimezone, pyrocatechin, and p-aminophenol hydrochloride, benzotriazole,
potassium iodide, sodium perborate, sodium metaborate, sodium carbonate,
possibly sodium hydroxide if using Rodinal (these last four alkali
activators for developers), tetrasodium EDTA, Calgon, and similar
sequestrants and chelators.

To give some idea how harmless a developer *can* be, you can develop
film in coffee with sodium carbonate added...

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Jason wrote:
Hello,

My wife and I recently found out she is pregnant. We're worried
something may have happened to our baby because she has been going to
school developing photos in a B/W lab.

Unless she was selenium toning with skin contact or bathing her hands in
developer for prolonged periods, it's unlikely you've done any harm.
There are many professions for which the practitioners pay with
shortened lifespans -- chemists, for instance, have a high incidence of
cancer and organ failures due to solvents used in their work, as do
painters and auto body workers. Photographers have show no such effect,
even those who spend literally decades in daily darkroom work.

There are some people who become sensitized to certain chemicals --
metol, aka Elon, is one, various aldehydes used in non-metal gelatin
hardeners are another (glutaraldehyde is the most common, but it's used
mainly in X-ray processing to protect emulsion at very high process
temperatures needed for rapid results). Pyrogallol is toxic, but not
significantly more so than many other chemicals we use regularly,
including permanent hair dyes. Color developers, bleach, and especially
stabilizer are others for which skin contact should be avoided.

Of these, AFAIK only pyrogallol and metol are known to have significant
skin contact risks, and pyrogallol is rarely if ever used in instruction
for photography; most likely the developer she was using for printing
was Dektol or similar containing metol and hydroquinone. If she doesn't
have a relatively immediate reaction, she's not sensitive, and it's my
understanding metol isn't signifcantly absorbed through the skin.
Developers also typically contains a good bit of sodium sulfite as a
preservative and silver solvent.

Stop bath isn't anything to worry about -- acetic acid, same as vinegar;
if you have a variety without indicator dye, you could drink it without
harm.

Fixer has sodium thiosulfate or ammonium thiosulfate, sodium sulfite as
a preservative (sodium sulfite is also used as a food additive), sodium
metabisulfite (another food additive), and acetic acid (vinegar again).
Sodium thiosulfate is the specific antidote for cyanide poisoning; it
isn't a recommended dietary supplement, but isn't significantly toxic.
The biggest hazard from fixer is sulfur dioxide evolved from a reaction
of the thiosulfate with acid, and this is in very low concentrations.

Used developer and fixer both contained dissolved silver compounds and
complexes, but these aren't normally a skin absorption hazard.

Overall, I'd be surprised if there were a problem -- there's a much
bigger risk if she had a few glasses of wine or beer in the last couple
weeks before learning of the conception, IMO.

Disclaimer: I'm neither a toxicity expert nor a physician -- everything
I've said here should be checked with someone who is qualified to verify
it. Chemical names you'll want besides those above are phenidone,
dimezone, pyrocatechin, and p-aminophenol hydrochloride, benzotriazole,
potassium iodide, sodium perborate, sodium metaborate, sodium carbonate,
possibly sodium hydroxide if using Rodinal (these last four alkali
activators for developers), tetrasodium EDTA, Calgon, and similar
sequestrants and chelators.

To give some idea how harmless a developer *can* be, you can develop
film in coffee with sodium carbonate added...

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

On 29 Oct 2004 08:25:43 -0700, (Jason) wrote:

She did not use gloves and touched the solution with
her bare fingers.

GASP !!!!! GADZOOKS !!!!! LAWDY LAWDY !!!!! HOW COULD YOU ....
!!!

(:)

Quickly after touching the solution, she washed her
hands with water, no soap was used. Before the conception date, she's
spent the last 6 weeks in the dark room, maybe once or twice a week.

I already know how stupid we are for doing what we did, so please do
not lecture me on that.

No but what I would lecture you on is completely over-reacting
to the folklore about darkroom chemistry. The fact is that your wife
would be at the same or greater risk if she uses laundry detergent,
bleach, dandruff shampoo, perfume, air freshener, drinks coffee or tea
or is otherwise exposed to the many other numerous commonly used
chemical concoctions around the average household.

FYI, most developers are not easily absorbed through the skin.
Most developing agents are relatively benign and in fact some have
medicinal uses. Stop bath is simply an acidic solution usually
comprised of acetic acid (think vinegar) and water. Fixer is simply
ammonium thiosulfate which is not known to be toxic when used
accordingly.

That said, if she should drink a cocktail of the above
solutions she may indeed suffer severe cramps which could
theoretically induce an abortion. Given that this isn't likely I would
just recommend that she make sure there is adequate ventilation and
that she take plenty of breaks to prevent varicose veins and other
problems.

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Vote "No! for the status quo. Vote 3rd party !!

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:14:21 GMT, Donald Qualls
wrote:

Photographers have show no such effect,
even those who spend literally decades in daily darkroom work.

Including Ansel Adams who consistently dipped his hands in
chemicals for many years but there was no conclusive indication that
this had any effect on him.

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.puresilver.org
Vote "No! for the status quo. Vote 3rd party !!

"Jason" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

My wife and I recently found out she is pregnant. We're worried
something may have happened to our baby because she has been going to
school developing photos in a B/W lab.

The most likely consequence of this case will be the baby's exposure will be
to his/her father's alarmist presumptions. You are advised to consult a
professional, not Usenet (for God's sake) for answers, and possible
treatment for your anxiety lest you infect the child.

John wrote:
: On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:14:21 GMT, Donald Qualls
: wrote:

: Photographers have show no such effect,
: even those who spend literally decades in daily darkroom work.

: Including Ansel Adams who consistently dipped his hands in
: chemicals for many years but there was no conclusive indication that
: this had any effect on him.

While I don't think most B&W chemistry is harmful I think it's best to
avoid drinking it or coming into direct contact with it. I still remember
when working on cars and lawnmowers we used to wash our hands with leaded
gasoline. In jr. high school we used asbestos gloves and boards when dealing
with alcohol lamps.

If the OP is concerned he may want to go to Kodak's website and download
the MSDSs of the chemistry his wife came into contact with.


--




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