photography and drawing

"Mark M" wrote:

I just find it amusing that this TP--the pompous idiot who pretends to be an
expert, and who derides any reference to the basics of things like
composition--needed a drawing class before he got complitments about his
photos.


Your arrogance knows no bounds, Mark.

It is a pity that your understanding of composition appears not to
extend beyond fatuous "rules" such as the "rule of thirds", which is
designed only to encourage people with no understanding of composition
to avoid taking the worst kind of snapshots, and therefore deserves
every bit of derision it gets.

As for me being an "expert", I am not, and never will be. At least I
am humble enough to recognise that I can always improve my work, and
tuition is a very productive and enjoyable way of doing just that.

It is a pity (for you and your photography) that you are so set on
deriding the very idea of learning basic technique; such arrogance
means that you think you have no need to improve, when the truth is
that we all do.

"Mark M" wrote:

I just find it amusing that this TP--the pompous idiot who pretends to be an
expert, and who derides any reference to the basics of things like
composition--needed a drawing class before he got complitments about his
photos.


Your arrogance knows no bounds, Mark.

It is a pity that your understanding of composition appears not to
extend beyond fatuous "rules" such as the "rule of thirds", which is
designed only to encourage people with no understanding of composition
to avoid taking the worst kind of snapshots, and therefore deserves
every bit of derision it gets.

As for me being an "expert", I am not, and never will be. At least I
am humble enough to recognise that I can always improve my work, and
tuition is a very productive and enjoyable way of doing just that.

It is a pity (for you and your photography) that you are so set on
deriding the very idea of learning basic technique; such arrogance
means that you think you have no need to improve, when the truth is
that we all do.

"Mark M" wrote:

I just find it amusing that this TP--the pompous idiot who pretends to be an
expert, and who derides any reference to the basics of things like
composition--needed a drawing class before he got complitments about his
photos.


Your arrogance knows no bounds, Mark.

It is a pity that your understanding of composition appears not to
extend beyond fatuous "rules" such as the "rule of thirds", which is
designed only to encourage people with no understanding of composition
to avoid taking the worst kind of snapshots, and therefore deserves
every bit of derision it gets.

As for me being an "expert", I am not, and never will be. At least I
am humble enough to recognise that I can always improve my work, and
tuition is a very productive and enjoyable way of doing just that.

It is a pity (for you and your photography) that you are so set on
deriding the very idea of learning basic technique; such arrogance
means that you think you have no need to improve, when the truth is
that we all do.

"TP" wrote in message
...
"Mark M" wrote:

My thought exactly. Composition in drawing does indeed cross over in
terms
of basic concepts, but these are the same basic concepts that TP has
repeatedly ridiculed when referred to here.


Complete nonsense. You could not be more wrong.

I have *never* ridiculed the basics, in fact quite the opposite, as I
have always *very strongly recommended* that anyone who wants to go
beyond taking just average snapshots should learn basic technique as a
prerequisite for progressing further.

What I *do* ridicule, and with good reason, is the conspicuous lack of
knowledge of the basics that is so evident in the SI submissions.

Perhaps you should raise the bar by making your own masterful submission.
Surely this would once-and-for-all expose the mediocrity of the SI in such a
comparatively obvious manner that all former participants would see their
folly.
Why won't you do that?
-Because you're a fraud.

As for my drawing and watercolour classes, I am always keen to improve
my photography, and for you or anyone else to ridicule that shows a
lack of vision, one that is of course so evident in so many of your
postings.

I DIDN'T ridicule the idea of taking a drawing class to gain a sense of
composition. I'm sure I have benefitted from various drawing teaching I've
been exposed to over the years.
What I (and others) found amusing was that it comes from a person (you) that
always talks as though he's FAR beyond these basic principles. Let's face
it, TP, drawing class isn't going to uncover some new mystery of composition
for the SKILLED and SEASONED photographer. It WILL bring to light some VERY
BASIC principles that all novice photogs can start with and benefit
from...but the [self-titled] "great" TP?? -Surely he's beyond all that...

"TP" wrote in message
...
"Mark M" wrote:

My thought exactly. Composition in drawing does indeed cross over in
terms
of basic concepts, but these are the same basic concepts that TP has
repeatedly ridiculed when referred to here.


Complete nonsense. You could not be more wrong.

I have *never* ridiculed the basics, in fact quite the opposite, as I
have always *very strongly recommended* that anyone who wants to go
beyond taking just average snapshots should learn basic technique as a
prerequisite for progressing further.

What I *do* ridicule, and with good reason, is the conspicuous lack of
knowledge of the basics that is so evident in the SI submissions.

Perhaps you should raise the bar by making your own masterful submission.
Surely this would once-and-for-all expose the mediocrity of the SI in such a
comparatively obvious manner that all former participants would see their
folly.
Why won't you do that?
-Because you're a fraud.

As for my drawing and watercolour classes, I am always keen to improve
my photography, and for you or anyone else to ridicule that shows a
lack of vision, one that is of course so evident in so many of your
postings.

I DIDN'T ridicule the idea of taking a drawing class to gain a sense of
composition. I'm sure I have benefitted from various drawing teaching I've
been exposed to over the years.
What I (and others) found amusing was that it comes from a person (you) that
always talks as though he's FAR beyond these basic principles. Let's face
it, TP, drawing class isn't going to uncover some new mystery of composition
for the SKILLED and SEASONED photographer. It WILL bring to light some VERY
BASIC principles that all novice photogs can start with and benefit
from...but the [self-titled] "great" TP?? -Surely he's beyond all that...

"TP" wrote in message
...
"Mark M" wrote:

I just find it amusing that this TP--the pompous idiot who pretends to be
an
expert, and who derides any reference to the basics of things like
composition--needed a drawing class before he got complitments about his
photos.


Your arrogance knows no bounds, Mark.

It is a pity that your understanding of composition appears not to
extend beyond fatuous "rules" such as the "rule of thirds", which is
designed only to encourage people with no understanding of composition
to avoid taking the worst kind of snapshots, and therefore deserves
every bit of derision it gets.

As for me being an "expert", I am not, and never will be.

Hooray for you! That's progress, TP!!

At least I
am humble enough to recognise that I can always improve my work, and
tuition is a very productive and enjoyable way of doing just that.

It is a pity (for you and your photography) that you are so set on
deriding the very idea of learning basic technique

Ha! Read my reply again.
And perhaps you should take a look at my thread about my first panorama
image.
You've got it backwards, my friend.
I'm all for learning technique basics and beyond.
I just find it amusing that you've accidentally placed youself as apparently
needing this most basic, rudimentary instruction in the most basic aspects
of composition.
It flies in the face of your "let me tell you what's crappy about your
photos" persona which you so "nicely" bestow upon everyone.

; such arrogance
means that you think you have no need to improve, when the truth is
that we all do.

Please quote where I disagree with that.
You will find I have not.
I am heartened to hear you speak of your lack of expertise, and your need
for a grasp of the basics.

"TP" wrote in message
...
"Mark M" wrote:

I just find it amusing that this TP--the pompous idiot who pretends to be
an
expert, and who derides any reference to the basics of things like
composition--needed a drawing class before he got complitments about his
photos.


Your arrogance knows no bounds, Mark.

It is a pity that your understanding of composition appears not to
extend beyond fatuous "rules" such as the "rule of thirds", which is
designed only to encourage people with no understanding of composition
to avoid taking the worst kind of snapshots, and therefore deserves
every bit of derision it gets.

As for me being an "expert", I am not, and never will be.

Hooray for you! That's progress, TP!!

At least I
am humble enough to recognise that I can always improve my work, and
tuition is a very productive and enjoyable way of doing just that.

It is a pity (for you and your photography) that you are so set on
deriding the very idea of learning basic technique

Ha! Read my reply again.
And perhaps you should take a look at my thread about my first panorama
image.
You've got it backwards, my friend.
I'm all for learning technique basics and beyond.
I just find it amusing that you've accidentally placed youself as apparently
needing this most basic, rudimentary instruction in the most basic aspects
of composition.
It flies in the face of your "let me tell you what's crappy about your
photos" persona which you so "nicely" bestow upon everyone.

; such arrogance
means that you think you have no need to improve, when the truth is
that we all do.

Please quote where I disagree with that.
You will find I have not.
I am heartened to hear you speak of your lack of expertise, and your need
for a grasp of the basics.

"TP" wrote in message
...
"Mark M" wrote:

I just find it amusing that this TP--the pompous idiot who pretends to be
an
expert, and who derides any reference to the basics of things like
composition--needed a drawing class before he got complitments about his
photos.


Your arrogance knows no bounds, Mark.

It is a pity that your understanding of composition appears not to
extend beyond fatuous "rules" such as the "rule of thirds", which is
designed only to encourage people with no understanding of composition
to avoid taking the worst kind of snapshots, and therefore deserves
every bit of derision it gets.

As for me being an "expert", I am not, and never will be.

Hooray for you! That's progress, TP!!

At least I
am humble enough to recognise that I can always improve my work, and
tuition is a very productive and enjoyable way of doing just that.

It is a pity (for you and your photography) that you are so set on
deriding the very idea of learning basic technique

Ha! Read my reply again.
And perhaps you should take a look at my thread about my first panorama
image.
You've got it backwards, my friend.
I'm all for learning technique basics and beyond.
I just find it amusing that you've accidentally placed youself as apparently
needing this most basic, rudimentary instruction in the most basic aspects
of composition.
It flies in the face of your "let me tell you what's crappy about your
photos" persona which you so "nicely" bestow upon everyone.

; such arrogance
means that you think you have no need to improve, when the truth is
that we all do.

Please quote where I disagree with that.
You will find I have not.
I am heartened to hear you speak of your lack of expertise, and your need
for a grasp of the basics.

"TP" wrote in message
news
(Sabineellen) wrote:

I really want to get back to drawing as a daily habit and see how it
affects
me. I know from past experience that it usually has a tremendous
pyshoclogical
effect on me. And I'm sorta curious too, it being a visual act, how it'd
affect
my photography.


Apart from learning another approach to basic composition, one of the
most important things drawing classes have taught me about photography
is the importance of every individual element of the shot. In drawing
or painting, you can use "artist's licence" to subdue or even omit
extraneous detail. In photography, you're stuck with it, and it can
often detract from the subject or scene.

Drawing has made me more aware of extraneous detail and therefore how
to avoid, subdue or even harness it to improve the overall shot.

That's great!
Good for you!

"TP" wrote in message
news
(Sabineellen) wrote:

I really want to get back to drawing as a daily habit and see how it
affects
me. I know from past experience that it usually has a tremendous
pyshoclogical
effect on me. And I'm sorta curious too, it being a visual act, how it'd
affect
my photography.


Apart from learning another approach to basic composition, one of the
most important things drawing classes have taught me about photography
is the importance of every individual element of the shot. In drawing
or painting, you can use "artist's licence" to subdue or even omit
extraneous detail. In photography, you're stuck with it, and it can
often detract from the subject or scene.

Drawing has made me more aware of extraneous detail and therefore how
to avoid, subdue or even harness it to improve the overall shot.

That's great!
Good for you!