Nikon PB-4 Bellows (exploring tilt/shift options)

I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And
some discussion below.

1. Do I need an extension ring to mount on a D200?

2. Does at least one of the end caps on the 4 rails come off? I saw one
modified to shorten it and am also curious if two female PB-4 mounts
could be attached, switching out the actual mounts for more flexibility
in tilting & shifting. Shortened modification:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/...af0555.jpg?v=0

3. When rotating from landscape to portrait, can you stop anywhere
between? I'm guessing it's just a matter of possibly being too loose so
that things wouldn't stay put but if there's enough tension this might
be workable.

4 the adjustments for tilt & shift are levers on the front, how do these
work? Does the lever just loosen it and you push it with your hand or
something else? Are these pretty secure for a heavy lens if the unit is
set at 90 degrees to get vertical movement?

5. What does the small 'thing' on the front lens mount do? It looks like
maybe a place to attach an aperture diaphragm... if there was more
mechanisms inside..

Here's an interesting modification allowing a lens to get closer to the
sensor for infinity focus by mounting it on the inside of the mount.
http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroo...tion/blue.html

An off-the-shelf setup for this kind of work is a Novoflex Balpro TS but
that costs $1,300. One neat feature is it mounts on the lens, not on the
body which should make movements more intuitive (and more precise for
panorama shifting though that's not much of an issue with today's
stitching software). Another nice thing is it looks quite a bit more
compact than a PB-4 although I wonder how sturdy it is. The Balpro has
movements in front & back too. A sawed down PB-4 would be a much more
manageable size. In fact if it could be mounted on a simpler old 2-rail
bellows that would be even smaller and the focusing rack isn't needed
for infinity work:
http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/images/103798.jpg
http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/nikon/bellows.htm

The other option is a Zork setup but that gets real expensive when you
put all the parts together:
http://www.zoerk.com/Zoerk%20info/pr...de_current.pdf
$550 MFS tilt
(includes:
$330 Tilt tube for
$229 Mini Makro Mount adjustable 'extension tube' for focusing)
$139 additional set of tubes
$50 35mm adapter
$600 shift adapter
$95 Tripod socket for mounting lens instead of body
$89 L-bracket for maintaining nodal point
$1,300 total.

This has a nice 30 degree tilt and parallax free shift for pano's and
it's super compact but I think only really works at infinity with large
format, or medium format without the shift adapter and I assume a heavy
lens would just flop over by it's own weight on the tilt mechanism.

Here's a detailed summary of pretty much all the options:
http://www.stitchpix.com/options.html

This quote from there is funny:
"Once upon a time in the far, far away land of Finland there was
developéd a system quite similar to the Cambo Ultima 35 but a lot
cheaper and more innovative and yea! it was slain by mysterious and
arcane forces of darkness and thus it was smote and lain low these many
years hence."
...perhaps refers to this: http://www.naturfotograf.com/28pc.html
btw that looks a lot like the Novoflex but a bit smaller... it's not
something that can be found any more and if you did find it the price
would be silly.

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
t...
I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And
some discussion below.

1. Do I need an extension ring to mount on a D200?

2. Does at least one of the end caps on the 4 rails come off? I saw
one modified to shorten it and am also curious if two female PB-4
mounts could be attached, switching out the actual mounts for more
flexibility in tilting & shifting. Shortened modification:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/...af0555.jpg?v=0

3. When rotating from landscape to portrait, can you stop anywhere
between? I'm guessing it's just a matter of possibly being too loose
so that things wouldn't stay put but if there's enough tension this
might be workable.

4 the adjustments for tilt & shift are levers on the front, how do
these work? Does the lever just loosen it and you push it with your
hand or something else? Are these pretty secure for a heavy lens if
the unit is set at 90 degrees to get vertical movement?

5. What does the small 'thing' on the front lens mount do? It looks
like maybe a place to attach an aperture diaphragm... if there was
more mechanisms inside..

Here's an interesting modification allowing a lens to get closer to
the sensor for infinity focus by mounting it on the inside of the
mount.
http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroo...tion/blue.html

An off-the-shelf setup for this kind of work is a Novoflex Balpro TS
but that costs $1,300. One neat feature is it mounts on the lens,
not on the body which should make movements more intuitive (and more
precise for panorama shifting though that's not much of an issue
with today's stitching software). Another nice thing is it looks
quite a bit more compact than a PB-4 although I wonder how sturdy it
is. The Balpro has movements in front & back too. A sawed down PB-4
would be a much more manageable size. In fact if it could be mounted
on a simpler old 2-rail bellows that would be even smaller and the
focusing rack isn't needed for infinity work:
http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/images/103798.jpg
http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/nikon/bellows.htm

The other option is a Zork setup but that gets real expensive when
you put all the parts together:
http://www.zoerk.com/Zoerk%20info/pr...de_current.pdf
$550 MFS tilt
(includes:
$330 Tilt tube for
$229 Mini Makro Mount adjustable 'extension tube' for focusing)
$139 additional set of tubes
$50 35mm adapter
$600 shift adapter
$95 Tripod socket for mounting lens instead of body
$89 L-bracket for maintaining nodal point
$1,300 total.

This has a nice 30 degree tilt and parallax free shift for pano's
and it's super compact but I think only really works at infinity
with large format, or medium format without the shift adapter and I
assume a heavy lens would just flop over by it's own weight on the
tilt mechanism.

Here's a detailed summary of pretty much all the options:
http://www.stitchpix.com/options.html

This quote from there is funny:
"Once upon a time in the far, far away land of Finland there was
developéd a system quite similar to the Cambo Ultima 35 but a lot
cheaper and more innovative and yea! it was slain by mysterious and
arcane forces of darkness and thus it was smote and lain low these
many years hence."
..perhaps refers to this: http://www.naturfotograf.com/28pc.html
btw that looks a lot like the Novoflex but a bit smaller... it's not
something that can be found any more and if you did find it the
price would be silly.

If you can find one HAMA made a bellows to fit the Nikon. I am
currently using mine on my D80. It is similar to the Hasselblad
Flexbody and has all the swings, tilts and shifts of many
Sinar type view cameras.

On Dec 3, 2:41 pm, Paul Furman wrote:
I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And
some discussion below.

1. Do I need an extension ring to mount on a D200?


No: http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/index.html

--
www.mattclara.com

Frank Arthur wrote:
Paul Furman wrote

I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And
some discussion below.


"Once upon a time in the far, far away land of Finland there was
developéd a system quite similar to the Cambo Ultima 35 but a lot
cheaper and more innovative and yea! it was slain by mysterious and
arcane forces of darkness and thus it was smote and lain low these
many years hence."
..perhaps refers to this: http://www.naturfotograf.com/28pc.html
btw that looks a lot like the Novoflex but a bit smaller... it's not
something that can be found any more and if you did find it the
price would be silly.

If you can find one HAMA made a bellows to fit the Nikon. I am
currently using mine on my D80. It is similar to the Hasselblad
Flexbody and has all the swings, tilts and shifts of many
Sinar type view cameras.

Hmm, pretty compact for medium format:
http://www.owenphotographicrepairs.com/bendybladg.htm
The one in the naturfotograf.com link above is the Hama... it's so tiny,
that would be nice but it does not exist. The Novoflex seems comparable:
http://www.photographyblog.com/index...hift_bellows/?

I even looked at a DIY solution:
http://www.velmex.com/manual_combining_unislides.html
http://www.deltron.com/catalog/speci...ns/?cat_id=194
http://www.velmex.com/in_stock_a15.asp
but those aren't cheap either & probably more precise than is needed
(slow). Add a turntable in the xy & another in the z direction & it
would probably be $2,000 before connecting to a camera & lens.

Matt Clara wrote:
On Dec 3, 2:41 pm, Paul Furman wrote:
I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And
some discussion below.

1. Do I need an extension ring to mount on a D200?


No: http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/index.html

Ah, thanks I forgot about that page. Great explanation of the issues of
mounting non-Ai lenses also!

"Paul Furman" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
t...
I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And some
discussion below.

1. Do I need an extension ring to mount on a D200?

I've never used one and it hasn't hurt anything as far as I can tell.


2. Does at least one of the end caps on the 4 rails come off? I saw one
modified to shorten it and am also curious if two female PB-4 mounts could
be attached, switching out the actual mounts for more flexibility in
tilting & shifting. Shortened modification:

All the end stops come off. You'll need an optical wrench with points to do
it right, but small needlenose pliers might work.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/...af0555.jpg?v=0

That looks totally stupid. Why not just not extend the bellows as far?


3. When rotating from landscape to portrait, can you stop anywhere
between? I'm guessing it's just a matter of possibly being too loose so
that things wouldn't stay put but if there's enough tension this might be
workable.

There are no stops, but there is a fair amount of drag so it could be held
in place manually.

4 the adjustments for tilt & shift are levers on the front, how do these
work? Does the lever just loosen it and you push it with your hand or
something else? Are these pretty secure for a heavy lens if the unit is
set at 90 degrees to get vertical movement?

They are friction locks, and yes, they are quite secure if you tighten them
enough. Mostly you just use your thumb and push them one way or the other.

5. What does the small 'thing' on the front lens mount do? It looks like
maybe a place to attach an aperture diaphragm... if there was more
mechanisms inside..

I don't remember and I am not near my unit. If you are really interested
remind me to look when I get back to Tokyo mid-December.

Here's an interesting modification allowing a lens to get closer to the
sensor for infinity focus by mounting it on the inside of the mount.
http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroo...tion/blue.html


I have an old brass barrel 135mm lens that works fine on the front. If you
go with a 150 (or probably 105) enlarging lens you wouldn't need to go
through such contortions, plus you would have wider coverage for extreme
swings.

Personally I have been quite underwhelmed by the capabilities of the PB-4.
You don't have anywhere near the kind of movements that a view camera has:
the back rail is fixed and the front simply slides from side to side and
does horizontal swings. Mounting vertically you do have the option of
dropping the front but that is of limited use in controlling plane of focus
because the back is fixed. Obviously Nikon knew this as well, since the PB-6
went back to fixed rails. I suppose that with the lensbaby craze it is of
some limited usefulness, but in that case you are better off with a
lensbaby.

Be aware that the D200 body can only be mounted and dismounted with the
bellows in portrait orientation. No big deal really, but a bit of a pain...

Toby

Toby wrote:
Paul Furman schrieb:
I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And some
discussion below.

Thanks for the detailed answers! :-)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/...af0555.jpg?v=0

That looks totally stupid. Why not just not extend the bellows as far?

The reason is for discrete shooting in public and convenience: for
infinity focusing, there is no need for a long rail, that's only for
macro. I figure around 1-1/2 inches of movement is enough for general
photography. Extension tubes could be added for macro work or an
unaltered PB-4.

I have an old brass barrel 135mm lens that works fine on the front. If you
go with a 150 (or probably 105) enlarging lens you wouldn't need to go
through such contortions, plus you would have wider coverage for extreme
swings.

Zoerk sells their system with these medium format enlarging lenses:
$850 80mm f/4 APO Rodagon (modified) ($655 at B&H)
$650 90mm f/4.5 Schneider APO Componon ($630 at Adorama)
$350 80mm f/4.5 Schneider Componon S (modified)
$350 90mm f/4.5 APO Rogonar S

With some modifications on a PB-4 to mount closer, a 35mm shift lens can
be used to get wide angle although the lens needs to have the mount
removed. On an APS DSLR those lenses will tilt & shift more than full
frame 35mm. With the finest setup, a DSLR can be shifted behind a tilted
large format lens and stitched into the same image that a view camera
would capture, although with more DOF. This requires full independent
front & back tilts & shifts, I think only the huge $4,000 Cambo will do
that:
http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_p...et/Item85.html

Personally I have been quite underwhelmed by the capabilities of the PB-4.
You don't have anywhere near the kind of movements that a view camera has:
the back rail is fixed and the front simply slides from side to side and
does horizontal swings.

Yes those are some of the things I'd like to change. The Hassleblad
flexbody link I posted was modified for these reasons. It's also
possible to simply mount a DSLR on the back of a cheap old LF view
camera but you are again stuck with only telephoto large format lenses:
http://www.camerafusion.com/?page_id=58

Mounting vertically you do have the option of
dropping the front but that is of limited use in controlling plane of focus
because the back is fixed. Obviously Nikon knew this as well, since the PB-6
went back to fixed rails. I suppose that with the lensbaby craze it is of
some limited usefulness, but in that case you are better off with a
lensbaby.

I tried a lensbaby, they are fun but they suck. I'm exploring better
optics but the movements suck with a handheld lensbaby approach and
that's why I'm looking at this idea. The PB-4 is good but yes it's
limited and that's why I'm interested in maybe putting the front tilt
mechanism on the back also. Vertical tilt would be nice, and vertical
adjustment. Even better if the lens remained fixed and the body did most
of the movements like the Novoflex.

Be aware that the D200 body can only be mounted and dismounted with the
bellows in portrait orientation. No big deal really, but a bit of a pain...

Just copying these answers to the DSLR group...

Max Perl wrote in rec.photo.equipment.35mm:
Paul Furman skrev:

I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And some
discussion below.

1. Do I need an extension ring to mount on a D200?

Not 100% sure......but without the batterypack I would guess that it
can be mounted without en extension ring.

2. Does at least one of the end caps on the 4 rails come off? I saw one
modified to shorten it and am also curious if two female PB-4 mounts could
be attached, switching out the actual mounts for more flexibility in
tilting & shifting. Shortened modification:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/...af0555.jpg?v=0

You can remove both end caps by unscrewing 4 "end screws". There are
two tiny holes in each.

3. When rotating from landscape to portrait, can you stop anywhere
between? I'm guessing it's just a matter of possibly being too loose so
that things wouldn't stay put but if there's enough tension this might be
workable.

My PB-4 has tension enough to hold a Nikkormat FTn in between........

4 the adjustments for tilt & shift are levers on the front, how do these
work? Does the lever just loosen it and you push it with your hand or
something else? Are these pretty secure for a heavy lens if the unit is
set at 90 degrees to get vertical movement?

Yes......you push the levers......and then you push by hand the tilt and
shift.....one lever for each.....and when you lock.....it is very locked :-)


5. What does the small 'thing' on the front lens mount do? It looks like
maybe a place to attach an aperture diaphragm... if there was more
mechanisms inside..

Small thing? .....it is the push buttom.....to unlock the lens like you
have
on the camera body. There is not buttom to close down the diagram.

The PB-4 is a fantastic piece of machinery..... much nicer than e.g. a
Hasselblad bellows.....and much cheaper.....

In article , Paul
Furman wrote:

I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And
some discussion below.

Paul, I've used a PB-4 quite a bit with a D-70. Based on that
experience...

1. Do I need an extension ring to mount on a D200?

As others have commented, you have to mount and unmount the bellows to
the camera in portrait orientation, which is a minor annoyance. Then
rotate the camera body into shooting position.

2. Does at least one of the end caps on the 4 rails come off? I saw one
modified to shorten it and am also curious if two female PB-4 mounts
could be attached, switching out the actual mounts for more flexibility
in tilting & shifting. Shortened modification:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/...af0555.jpg?v=0

John Shaw also mentions using a shortened PB-4 in his great book,
Closeups in Nature. I'm not convinced.

3. When rotating from landscape to portrait, can you stop anywhere
between? I'm guessing it's just a matter of possibly being too loose so
that things wouldn't stay put but if there's enough tension this might
be workable.

The rotation of the camera back vs. the bellows has solid click-stops
only at landscape and portrait. In between, mine is stiff enough to
hold the camera. Another PB-4 might be looser.

4 the adjustments for tilt & shift are levers on the front, how do these
work? Does the lever just loosen it and you push it with your hand or
something else? Are these pretty secure for a heavy lens if the unit is
set at 90 degrees to get vertical movement?

Shift... You move the lever to loosen, slide the lens with your hand,
then tighten. While loose, it slides pretty easily. Hard to make
precise small adjustments; sort of a hit-or-miss thing. You'll want to
have a hold on the shift mechanism when you loosen it. Swing is about
the same.

The PB-4 is elegantly designed and well-made.

You can use your tripod head to flop the bellows on it's side so that
the left-right shift becomes a vertical shift and the swing becomes an
up-down tilt, but beware of one thing: You'll want your tripod to flop
90 degrees in the correct direction; otherwise your camera body will be
upside down. On my Tiltall tripod, the tilt is in the wrong direction.

Flopped over, the whole rig is pretty heavy. Watch tripod rigidity.
Could even be tipped over depending on the geometry.

5. What does the small 'thing' on the front lens mount do? It looks like
maybe a place to attach an aperture diaphragm... if there was more
mechanisms inside..

Lens release button.

Here's an interesting modification allowing a lens to get closer to the
sensor for infinity focus by mounting it on the inside of the mount.
http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroo...tion/blue.html

Doesn't sound practical to me.

With camera directly on bellows, it focuses to infinity with Nikkor
short-mount 105/4 bellows lens. Ditto with several enlarging lenses.

I think the PB-4 is terrific for close-up/macro work. I like the
Micro-Nikkors (55/3.5, 105/4 bellows), Olympus 80/4, APO Rodagon-D 1x.
The shift-swing are helpful in controlling the plane of focus in macro.

You can add extension tubes (M, PN-11, etc.) to get more extension, but
the practical limitation is when the flex of the whole rig combined
with magnification starts to have the image jittering. In my
experience, you won't want to add much more extension.

With the 105/4 bellows, you have a small, limited movement, view
camera. But, it's a tele rig, not a wide angle. I used it with a
vertical tilt/shift for a scene 20 feet deep and it was fine. I cannot
imagine using it to shoot a building.

I have a couple of other comments:

1. Tilt/shift controls the plane of focus. But bracket-focusing and
then compositing with Helicon-Focus gives much, much more depth of
field than you'll ever get with tilt/shift. George Lepp wrote up
Helicon Focus in a recent magazine article. I think it's a
breakthrough. (Depth of field is a huge problem in macro; of course the
subject has to be static; as with a bellows, you'll be using a tripod.)


2. Tilt/shift controls perspective distortions. But, these are now
very managable with Photoshop.

My NET-NET after a lot of experimenting: I'd rather shoot with a
simpler camera rig (body + macro lens), bracket focus and composite
with Helicon Focus to get depth of field, then do my perspective
control in Photoshop.

One more for D-70 users: The D-70 won't meter at all without a modern
lens attached directly to the camera. I use a modified M tube to fool
the camera into doing matrix metering and TTL flash with the PB-4 or
with old macro lenses. See Bjorn Rorslett's excellent article at

http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html

(The D-200 and D-300 WILL meter with old lenses and the PB-4.)

Good luck and have fun. Let us know how it turns out.

-=- Rick

--
Richard Karash
Richard "at" Karash "dot" com

Richard Karash wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:

I have a few questions for anyone who has a PB-4 or is familiar. And
some discussion below.

Paul, I've used a PB-4 quite a bit with a D-70. Based on that
experience...

Thanks for the detailed reply.

With the 105/4 bellows, you have a small, limited movement, view
camera. But, it's a tele rig, not a wide angle. I used it with a
vertical tilt/shift for a scene 20 feet deep and it was fine. I cannot
imagine using it to shoot a building.

Those are rather expensive & hard to find lenses these days.


I have a couple of other comments:

1. Tilt/shift controls the plane of focus. But bracket-focusing and
then compositing with Helicon-Focus gives much, much more depth of
field than you'll ever get with tilt/shift. George Lepp wrote up
Helicon Focus in a recent magazine article. I think it's a
breakthrough. (Depth of field is a huge problem in macro; of course the
subject has to be static; as with a bellows, you'll be using a tripod.)

2. Tilt/shift controls perspective distortions. But, these are now
very managable with Photoshop.

My NET-NET after a lot of experimenting: I'd rather shoot with a
simpler camera rig (body + macro lens), bracket focus and composite
with Helicon Focus to get depth of field, then do my perspective
control in Photoshop.

Hmm, it occurs to me that the PB4 does not include a focusing rail so is
a completely different rig than would be used for focus stacking.