Hint: Changing the camera app can remarkably improve your photo quality of results (but why?)

If anyone on this newsgroup can give a good account as to _why_ the camera
app makes such a huge difference in details, dynamic range, and better
color (apparently using a variant of the camera app that the Pixel 3 uses).
https://i.postimg.cc/136096sR/motog700.jpg

On Black Friday I picked up a handful of 64GB/4GB/8-core/512GBsdcard
Motorola G7 stocking stuffer phablets for $100 each where I populated one
for myself with a few hundreds apps from my old SD card.
o What are your favorite F-Droid apps, and what do they do?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/EOWwR40FIWY

After reading the Motorola G7 reviews, I noticed the camera reviews seemed
to suggest for a LOT of phones, that we ditch the default camera app in
favor of the Google-created Gcam app, which apparently works on certain
Qualcomm-chip based phones.
o Google Camera Port Hub
https://www.xda-developers.com/google-camera-port-hub/

At XDA Developers, these 100 phones are said to benefit greatly in camera
QOR simply using the Google GCam APK which was designed for the Pixels.
o Asus ROG Phone II
o Asus ZenFone 5Z
o Asus ZenFone 6
o Asus ZenFone Max Pro M1
o Asus ZenFone Max Pro M2
o Essential Phone PH-1
o Galaxy phones running Android 10, 9, or 8 (Exynos & Snapdragon)
o Google Pixel 2/Pixel 2 XL
o Google Pixel 3/Pixel 3 XL
o Google Pixel 3/Pixel 3 XL
o Google Pixel 3a/Pixel 3a XL
o Google Pixel/Pixel XL
o HTC 10
o HTC U Ultra
o HTC U11
o HTC U12+
o LG G4
o LG G5
o LG G6
o LG G7 ThinQ
o LG V20
o LG V30
o LG V40 ThinQ
o LeEco Le Max 2
o LeEco Le Pro3
o Lenovo K6
o Lenovo P2
o Lenovo ZUK Z2 Plus
o Lenovo ZUK Z2 Pro
o Moto G5 Plus
o Moto G5S
o Moto G5S Plus
o Moto G7
o Moto G7 Plus
o Moto G7 Power
o Moto X4
o Moto Z
o Moto Z2 Play
o Moto Z3 Play
o Motorola One
o Motorola One Power
o Nokia 5
o Nokia 6
o Nokia 7 Plus
o Nokia 8
o Nokia 8.1
o OnePlus 3/3T
o OnePlus 5/5T
o OnePlus 6/6T
o OnePlus 7
o OnePlus 7 Pro
o OnePlus 7T
o Razer Phone
o Razer Phone 2
o Samsung Galaxy A70
o Samsung Galaxy Note 8
o Samsung Galaxy Note 9
o Samsung Galaxy S10/+/e
o Samsung Galaxy S7
o Samsung Galaxy S8
o Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+
o Xiaomi Mi 5
o Xiaomi Mi 5S
o Xiaomi Mi 6
o Xiaomi Mi 8
o Xiaomi Mi 8 Lite
o Xiaomi Mi 9
o Xiaomi Mi A1
o Xiaomi Mi A2
o Xiaomi Mi Max 3
o Xiaomi Mi Mix
o Xiaomi Mi Mix 2
o Xiaomi Mi Mix 2S
o Xiaomi Mi Mix 3
o Xiaomi Mi Note 3
o Xiaomi Pocophone F1 (Poco F1)
o Xiaomi Redmi 3S
o Xiaomi Redmi 4 Prime
o Xiaomi Redmi 4X
o Xiaomi Redmi 5A
o Xiaomi Redmi K20 Pro
o Xiaomi Redmi Note 2
o Xiaomi Redmi Note 3
o Xiaomi Redmi Note 4
o Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 / 5 Plus
o Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 Pro
o Xiaomi Redmi Note 7/Note 7 Pro
o Xiaomi Redmi Note 8 Pro
o ZTE Axon 7

Here's a CNET review where the Gcam suggestion is made at time 336:
o CNET: Moto G7 review: The best budget phone we've tried, hands down
https://youtu.be/57m1_SPBefg?t=336

If anyone on this newsgroup can give a good account as to _why_ the camera
app makes such an apparently huge difference in details, dynamic range, and
better color (apparently using a variant of the camera app that the Pixel 3
uses), it would be useful to all since it's an easy "mod" for sure.
https://i.postimg.cc/136096sR/motog700.jpg

See also:
o The Moto G7 is on sale for $100 during the Black Friday Google Fi event
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/UIYH1QYp8Pw
--
Usenet works well when adults purposefully helpfully share their knowledge.

On 04/12/2019 05:19, Libor Striz wrote:
Arlen Holder Wrote in message:r
If anyone on this newsgroup can give a good account as to _why_ the cameraapp makes such a huge difference in details, dynamic range, and better color....

Is not it obvious ?

Photos are data.

If all camera applications
collected data from CCD or other camera sensors the same way,
and if all applications stored all data as they were collected,
then photos from all applications on given camera would be the same.

But applications collect and process camera data by different ways,
therefore results are different.

.... and the source data is (usually) from a single RGBG sensor quad
which has to be processed into four RGB pixels.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

On Dec 3, 2019, David Taylor wrote
(in article ):

On 04/12/2019 05:19, Libor Striz wrote:
Arlen Wrote in message:r
If anyone on this newsgroup can give a good account as to _why_ the
cameraapp makes such a huge difference in details, dynamic range, and
better color....

Is not it obvious ?

Photos are data.

If all camera applications
collected data from CCD or other camera sensors the same way,
and if all applications stored all data as they were collected,
then photos from all applications on given camera would be the same.

But applications collect and process camera data by different ways,
therefore results are different.

... and the source data is (usually) from a single RGBG sensor quad
which has to be processed into four RGB pixels.

Take care. This thread is the start of a dive into an Arlen Holder vortex,
and about to heavily pollute r.p.d..

I have him, and his many nym variations effectively kill-filed. However, when
others respond to him I get to see his scribblings, and I see that nothing
has changed.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

On 04/12/2019 06:01, Savageduck wrote:
[]
Take care. This thread is the start of a dive into an Arlen Holder vortex,
and about to heavily pollute r.p.d..

I have him, and his many nym variations effectively kill-filed. However, when
others respond to him I get to see his scribblings, and I see that nothing
has changed.

Unfortunately I had not noticed that the origin of the thread. I have a
similar arrangement in place. I've removed the spurious groups, too.

It's quite early in the morning here!

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

On 03/12/2019 22:57, Arlen Holder wrote:
If anyone on this newsgroup can give a good account as to _why_ the camera
app makes such a huge difference in details, dynamic range, and better
color (apparently using a variant of the camera app that the Pixel 3 uses).
https://i.postimg.cc/136096sR/motog700.jpg

I'm not sure it will make a huge difference but it is always a trade off
between processing time, size of the stored image and quality. Different
applications make different approximations and compression levels so it
isn't too surprising that for a given chipset there are better imaging
applications that the default Android jack of all trades.

If you would care to put up a couple of images of the same scene taken
on the same phone using the default app and a Goggle Pixel it would be
easy enough to determine the JPEG compression settings they each use.

Deliberately dropping foliage background detail is one way to compress
images that some mobile phones seem to use - concentrating on faces.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article , David Taylor
wrote:

... and the source data is (usually) from a single RGBG sensor quad
which has to be processed into four RGB pixels.

that's not how bayer demosaicing works. not even remotely close to how
it works.

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:10:25 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

If you would care to put up a couple of images of the same scene taken
on the same phone using the default app and a Goggle Pixel it would be
easy enough to determine the JPEG compression settings they each use.

Just to be clear, that side-by-side comparison was in the opening post:
o CNET: Moto G7 review: The best budget phone we've tried, hands down
https://youtu.be/57m1_SPBefg?t=336

If you need more side-by-side comparisons, I can likely dig them up since
the Internet seems rife with the potentially astounding claim that the
Google Gcam APK dramatically improves the quality of the results (QOR) on
almost 100 common phones out there today (see list in the original post).


Here's the wikipedia on how the Gcam APK does it's QOR magic (HDR+):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Camera

Here's the Google blog on the Gcam APK QOR magic:
https://blog.x.company/meet-gcam-the-x-graduate-that-gave-us-a-whole-new-point-of-view-3ee86657d6c9
"the Gcam team explored a method called *image fusion*, which takes a
rapid sequence of shots and then fuses them to create a single, higher
quality image. The technique allowed them to render dimly-lit scenes in
greater detail, and mixed lighting scenes with greater clarity. This meant
brighter, sharper pictures overall."

One interesting potential odd result of that claim of vastly improved QOR
based on the Gcam APK, if it holds true, is that any mobile phone published
QOR review, e.g., the classic DXOMark reviews, "could" be drastically
different simply based on the camera app employed.

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 06:19:05 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

Is not it obvious ?

Hi Poutnik,

We go way back on the Android newsgroup, where you've helped out a lot.
However, it kind of irks me when people say non-obvious things are obvious.

*Vastly improving camera QOR simply by an APK, is a _big deal_ IMHO.*
o HDR+
o ZSL
o NightSight

It's definitely not obvious, since Google themselves says they spent
_years_ developing HDR+ technology to vastly improve camera output QOR.

o Here are side-by-side photos on the Motorola G7 with the Gcam APK:
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/motorola-moto-g7-review/2/
"But here's an interesting wrinkle. If you're savvy enough to install
the Google Camera app (Gcam apk), which is essentially the camera app used
on the Pixel 3, you'll be rewarded. *The results are eye opening*. Photos
taken with the Google Camera app on the Moto G7 have more detail, dynamic
range and better color."

If this was so obvious, why did it take a decade of smartphone technology
before this camera-QOR-improvement capability showed up, Poutnik?

It's also not obvious that certain features won't work until you get the
proper non-Google-Play "port" of the Google Gcam APK:
o Download Google Camera (Gcam) for Moto G7 with working HDR+ and ZSL
https://droidfeats.com/download-gcam-for-moto-g7/
"The Google Camera application does not work correctly on all the
devices. If you just download the Google Camera from APKMirror or any other
site, it may get installed on your phone. But, HDR+ and Zero Shutter Lag
(ZSL) may not work. You may not get all the Pixel Camera features. So, some
additional change had to be made with the app. This modification is called
porting Google Camera app from Pixel devices. This is not an official APK
from Play Store, but a modified one."

All that is decidedly _not_ obvious, Poutnik: at least not to me, a priori.

It's decidedly not obvious a developer had to _port_ the Google Gcam APK.
o Download Google Camera for Moto G7 with HDR+/Night Sight [Gcam APK]
https://www.getdroidtips.com/google-camera-moto-g7/
"Today an XDA Senior member, ARNOVA8G2 ported the Google Camera for Moto
G7 which brings HDR+ and Night Sight features to the top. Also Credits to
Ukrainian developer B-S-G for porting the Google Camera HDR+ and Night
Sight for many devices. This APK and the related features will work on the
mentioned devices running Android 9.0 Pie. It will not support any
operating system below Android Pie."

Note it's also not obvious why it only works on Android Pie & above!


One interesting potential "issue" of this apparently vastly increased
camera QOR is that any mobile-phone review that tests with the stock camera
may not be what the user "can" attain, where this concept that the camera
APK has a _drastic_ effect on camera QOR, is IMPORTANT to understand.
https://www.dxomark.com/motorola-moto-g7-plus-camera-review/

Saying "it's obvious" is sort of like saying it's obvious how to fly like a
bird ... all you have to do is flap your arms a lot.

My point is that it's decidedly _not_ obvious if it took Google _years_ to
develop this technology (we can assume they spent tens of millions on it).

Given I'm clearly not a "camera expert", others on this ng _are_ more
expert than we are, Poutnik, where the main question is whether someone on
this newsgroup can explain to us, the hoi polloi, _how_ Google did it.

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 18:56:01 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

If you need more side-by-side comparisons, I can likely dig them up since
the Internet seems rife with the potentially astounding claim that the
Google Gcam APK dramatically improves the quality of the results (QOR) on
almost 100 common phones out there today (see list in the original post).

Hi Martin Brown,
In my response to Poutnik, I found more side-by-side comparisons, where,
apparently, you can _vastly_ increase the camera QOR simply by loading a
decent port of the Google gCam (which is not available on Google Play).

o Here are side-by-side photos on the Motorola G7 with the Gcam APK:
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/motorola-moto-g7-review/2/
"But here's an interesting wrinkle. If you're savvy enough to install
the Google Camera app (Gcam apk), which is essentially the camera app used
on the Pixel 3, you'll be rewarded. *The results are eye opening*. Photos
taken with the Google Camera app on the Moto G7 have more detail, dynamic
range and better color."

The main technical question for this group is "how" the APK does its magic.
o HDR+
o ZSL
o NightSight

Where it wasn't obvious to me that one could dramatically improve the
camera QOR so greatly (based on the cites I've provided), simply by loading
a port of the Google Gcam APK.

As a related aside, what that calls into question is _all_ camera QOR
reviews that don't use the best available camera app, since the camera QOR
results are, by all accounts I've seen, referred to as "eye opening" and
"dramatic".

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 09:50:25 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:

Perhaps it just knows that I refuse to update to Android8 and is
punishing me.

Hi The Real Bev,
We both go way back in helping out others where I always appreciate your
honesty and candor.

As with you, I failed. Not only did I fail, but I failed twice.

It's not obvious how to get this stuff to work, but it is obvious that
other people _have_ gotten the Google Gcam port to work on their phones
(since they published side-by-side photos which showed 'dramatic'
improvement in Camera QOR).

Since "eye opening" instantly improvement in camera QOR can be obtained,
for free, simply by loading the Google Gcam APK, it's a "no brainer", to
try.

So I did.
o And I failed.
Twice.

I first tried the Google Play Gcam app (from Aurora Store) version of the
Gcam app, but it simply crashed. Then I tried the xda-developers' port
specific for the Moto G7, and it failed to install. I'd hit the install
button, and it would go back to the screen saying to install it. Over and
over and over again.

And I'm on Android 9 Pie, where it's "supposed" to work.
So it's _not obvious_ how to get this reputed Gcam APK port to work.

In _your_ case though, I just belatedly noticed this when I was researching
what the constraints are, where if you're not on Android Pie or above, I
think you're hosed (AFAICT).

o Download Google Camera for Moto G7 with HDR+/Night Sight [Gcam APK]
https://www.getdroidtips.com/google-camera-moto-g7/
"Today an XDA Senior member, ARNOVA8G2 ported the Google Camera for Moto
G7 which brings HDR+ and Night Sight features to the top. Also Credits to
Ukrainian developer B-S-G for porting the Google Camera HDR+ and Night
Sight for many devices. This APK and the related features will work on the
mentioned devices running Android 9.0 Pie. *It will not support any*
*operating system below Android Pie*."

I didn't know this when I first posted this thread, but what is extremely
interesting is that, by all accounts I've seen, you can attain "dramatic"
camera QOR results simply by using a port of the Gcam APK, where the
results are "eye opening".

This means it's a no brainer for most of us with the 100 ported phones to
"try", but, you and I both failed so far.

It would be nice to know from others _how_ they succeeded since we failed.