slightly purple Tri-X ?

Peter Irwin wrote:

I use Kodak Fixer for films because I found that my negatives
dried flatter with it than with the other fixers I have tried.
I realise this is an area where different people have reported
different results, but for me it is a fairly strong incentive to
stay with Kodak Fixer. I get around 40 rolls per gallon with the
two bath method. I think this is in line with what I'm supposed to
get.

Quite reasonable -- but it's about twice what you'd get with adequate
fixing in a single bath, regardless of published capacity, if you use a
lot of T-Max films.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Donald Qualls wrote in message .com...
LR Kalajainen wrote:

I don't believe it means incomplete fixing. I use film strength Ilford
Rapid Fix for double the recommended time, and sometimes the pink is
still there. I believe that it is a matter of not washing out of the
gelatin thoroughly. Seems to vary from film batch to film batch, so I
suspect that there may even be some inconsistencies in the coating
process that make some rolls more pink-retaining than others? How else
to explain the same film in the same process in the same chemicals
coming out differently?

Worth rememebering that no matter how much quality control is applied to
it, gelatin is a natural animal product, and as such may vary slightly
from batch to batch. There's a tolerance for the coating gelatin used
in a film, using a measurment called "bloom" (I'm not certain what it
measures or how it's arrived at, but it seems related to permeability or
melting point or something of the sort); gelatin that is within spec for
a given film may have higher or lower bloom than in-spec gelatin used in
another batch -- and according to people who use gelatin directly (for
things like carbon pigment printing), bloom makes a significant difference.


This is scarcely possible for current materials. Kodak and Ilford
films are as consistent as can be. The problem can be cured by
sufficient fixing with fresh fixer followed by 2 baths of Permawash.



--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

I haven't noticed it with PanF+ (35mm) but have with TMAX 120. It may
be worth noting that the cast I saw on the TriX320 (developed with
HC110 B) was more of a pinkish cast (maybe in the eye of the beholder)
but the Tmax was more purple. It probably does vary from batch to
batch as the TMAX doesn't always display the cast. Or at least no
perceptable one. Sometimes, it's uneven as well which. I suggest too
short of fixing time (or exhausted fixer) based on limited experience,
what I've read here and what I've been told by people with many more
years experience than I have. I've only done a few rolls of TriX and
will be doing some more this weekend. I'll follow my own advice and
use fresh chems and fix for an extended period and see if anything
changes.. I think there are a lot of possibilities that could be the
cause of the cast and we are all using slightly different enough
methods and materials that our experiences may be somewhat unique..

8) Jeff


(Mike Schuler) wrote in message . com...
I've noticed the same problem with Pan F+ and Tri-X and I almost
always use freshly mixed Kodak Rapid Fixer (no hardener): Pan F is
always a little bit purple/blue and the color decreases quite a bit as
the film dries but is still there. I also generally fix for 3-4 times
the clearing time. Soaking a small piece of this film in distilled
water overnight did nothing to reduce the color. I haven't tried
extensive fixing times, but will.


) wrote in message . com...
It's most likely exhausted fixer (or insuffucient fix time).. It
doesn't seem to take much to exhaust fixer when developing films.. I
do have a question, Why are you pre-soaking?? I've heard of it for
color films due to the temperatures, color papers in tubes for even
processing. But not for b&w films...

8) Jeff


"Koen" . be wrote in message ...
I just got into b/w film development myself. The first 4 rolls of Tri-X I
developed had an almost neutral transparent film base. However, the last
roll turned out to be quite purple, but still very transparent.

Now I did reuse the fixer, but according to my tests it was still ok. It
took about 1 minute to clear exposed film in it, and I fixed the film for 4
and a half minute.

For the rest I treated the films identically. First a 1 minute soak in
water. Then 8 minutes in ID11, 1 minute stop. All 20 degrees Celcius, take
or leave half a degree.

Is this due to differences in film batches, or was the fixer bad anyhow,
or... ?

Thanks.

Koen

The residual purple dye was a novelty when the T-Max films came out, and the
cure was more fixing, the use of a hypo clearing agent (Perma Wash will do),
and more washing.

If you've observed it with "new" Tri-X, that's an indication that "new"
Tri-X uses sensitizers that the "old" Tri-X didn't.

I have also learned that trick, but have you noticed if it affects
development times?
No, I have not. But that is because I always presoak. I do not know if the
difference is noticeable.

Koen

Donald Qualls wrote:

LR Kalajainen wrote:

I don't believe it means incomplete fixing. I use film strength
Ilford Rapid Fix for double the recommended time, and sometimes the
pink is still there. I believe that it is a matter of not washing out
of the gelatin thoroughly. Seems to vary from film batch to film
batch, so I suspect that there may even be some inconsistencies in the
coating process that make some rolls more pink-retaining than others?
How else to explain the same film in the same process in the same
chemicals coming out differently?


Worth rememebering that no matter how much quality control is applied to
it, gelatin is a natural animal product, and as such may vary slightly
from batch to batch. There's a tolerance for the coating gelatin used
in a film, using a measurment called "bloom" (I'm not certain what it
measures or how it's arrived at, but it seems related to permeability or
melting point or something of the sort); gelatin that is within spec for
a given film may have higher or lower bloom than in-spec gelatin used in
another batch -- and according to people who use gelatin directly (for
things like carbon pigment printing), bloom makes a significant difference.

Sounds plausible to me.

Michael A. Covington wrote:

The residual purple dye was a novelty when the T-Max films came out, and the
cure was more fixing, the use of a hypo clearing agent (Perma Wash will do),
and more washing.

If you've observed it with "new" Tri-X, that's an indication that "new"
Tri-X uses sensitizers that the "old" Tri-X didn't.



"New" Tri-X, aka 400TX, is coated on the same equipment as TMX and TMY
-- that was the change. I suspect that there was a change in dyes that
went with the equipment change, but the new emulsion isn't enough
different from the old to notice, otherwise...

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

LR Kalajainen wrote

How else to explain the same film in the same process in the
same chemicals coming out differently?


"...same...in...same...in...same..." Are you same in same in
same for sure?
Of course that is never sure. And I'm a one-shoter from start
to scratch!

Take fixer as an example. Most use the fix for a roll or
two then put it back in the bottle. The fix in the bottle has
been loaded with the halides; chloride, bromide, and a little
iodide plus some silver. It is not the same fix as at start.
I don't do it that way but I still worry. I've a liter
of rapid fix broken down into smaller bottles equipped with
polycone seal caps; one's best insurance against oxidation.
Even they are, over time, rechecked for good seal.
Prior to process time a small bottle of the concentrate is
portioned out at stock strength into a few small bottles.
At process time the stock is diluted to working. It's used
once and dumped. I use fixer, film or paper, very dilute. It
ALWAYS has ZERO halides and silver content at start. I don't
go around with my fingers crossed.
At first I was surprised and pleased at how fast are very
dilute fixers . They may be faster than the more usual strength
fixers. I'm sure the user of a phenidone based developer will
not marvel at that. As they know a small fraction of a gram
of phenidone will develop a roll of film or a print in less
time than some take to fix using rapid fix. I've mentioned
phenidone only to underline how 'THIN' a soop can be and
still be fast enough. Calibrate then use fix one-shot.
One other matter; that purple. Be sure to use distilled
water. Sodium and ammonium argentothiosulfates are soluable
BUT other elements may cause precipitation in the solution
and emulsion. After fix the FIRST rinse should be distilled.
Water purity MAY have something to do with hit and miss
coloration of the film base. Dan

Dan Quinn wrote:

One other matter; that purple. Be sure to use distilled
water. Sodium and ammonium argentothiosulfates are soluable
BUT other elements may cause precipitation in the solution
and emulsion. After fix the FIRST rinse should be distilled.
Water purity MAY have something to do with hit and miss
coloration of the film base. Dan

Good point, Dan. I do in fact reuse my Ilford Rapid Fixer, BTW, to
something like the capacity Ilford lists on the bottle (though I plan to
start using a two-bath fixing process next time I mix a fresh batch --
simple, and it both improves fixing *and* increases the fixer capacity
about 2x). And yes, I overfix a bit -- a small amount of overfixing
hurts nothing (2x to 3x recommended times), and ensures I don't underfix
and wind up with negatives turning brown in a year or two.

However, my diluting, rinsing, and washing has been 100% with either
distilled or filtered drinking water -- for mixing, from the first batch
of film I did last December after returning to the dark, er, bag after
some 20+ years away, and for washing for the past 4-5 months. Perhaps
that contributes to my never having seen the purple negatives others
complain about.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Dan Quinn wrote:

One other matter; that purple. Be sure to use distilled
water. Sodium and ammonium argentothiosulfates are soluable
BUT other elements may cause precipitation in the solution
and emulsion. After fix the FIRST rinse should be distilled.
Water purity MAY have something to do with hit and miss
coloration of the film base. Dan

Good point, Dan. I do in fact reuse my Ilford Rapid Fixer, BTW, to
something like the capacity Ilford lists on the bottle (though I plan to
start using a two-bath fixing process next time I mix a fresh batch --
simple, and it both improves fixing *and* increases the fixer capacity
about 2x). And yes, I overfix a bit -- a small amount of overfixing
hurts nothing (2x to 3x recommended times), and ensures I don't underfix
and wind up with negatives turning brown in a year or two.

However, my diluting, rinsing, and washing has been 100% with either
distilled or filtered drinking water -- for mixing, from the first batch
of film I did last December after returning to the dark, er, bag after
some 20+ years away, and for washing for the past 4-5 months. Perhaps
that contributes to my never having seen the purple negatives others
complain about.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.