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#11
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
Nospam wrote:
if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. Absolutely false. FYI, I have a friend whose hearing was highly impaired in an industrial accident ... root cause was that the hairs in his inner ear were selectively destroyed at the **harmonics** of the frequency source. -hh |
#12
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
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#13
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: if humans can't hear it, then there's no point in reproducing it. But what is "can't hear it"? Oohashi et al have found that the brain responds to 25kHz even if the owner of the brain doesn't think they can hear the sound. respond how? some vague physiological effect is completely meaningless. 17 Hz can't be heard but it can cause epilepsy, and infra sound that you can't hear distorts the eye and this is why some see 'ghosts' or feel they are being watched it's sound waves on the eye. this isn't about subsonic sounds. You should try listening to a l a r g e organ. You feel the lower notes rather than hear them. Also some drums. so what? that was never in dispute. the issue *you* brought up was high frequency sounds, not low. now you're moving the ol' goalposts around. Nope. Just adding them to the mix. I have already told you of high frequency sounds which can't be heard but still can be detected. if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. The evidence is that the brain can. there is no evidence it can be heard. you even admitted that there's no evidence. |
#14
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
In article , -hh
wrote: if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. Absolutely false. it's not false. it's common sense. audio signals are heard. if they can't be heard, they do not matter. at all. none of this specious 'but it alters brain waves'. everything alters brain waves. what matters is can it be heard. FYI, I have a friend whose hearing was highly impaired in an industrial accident ... root cause was that the hairs in his inner ear were selectively destroyed at the **harmonics** of the frequency source. and? |
#15
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
On 5/26/2017 10:35 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens wrote: if humans can't hear it, then there's no point in reproducing it. But what is "can't hear it"? Oohashi et al have found that the brain responds to 25kHz even if the owner of the brain doesn't think they can hear the sound. respond how? some vague physiological effect is completely meaningless. 17 Hz can't be heard but it can cause epilepsy, and infra sound that you can't hear distorts the eye and this is why some see 'ghosts' or feel they are being watched it's sound waves on the eye. this isn't about subsonic sounds. You should try listening to a l a r g e organ. You feel the lower notes rather than hear them. Also some drums. so what? that was never in dispute. the issue *you* brought up was high frequency sounds, not low. now you're moving the ol' goalposts around. Nope. Just adding them to the mix. I have already told you of high frequency sounds which can't be heard but still can be detected. if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. Wrong -- PeterN |
#16
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
In article , PeterN
wrote: if humans can't hear it, then there's no point in reproducing it. But what is "can't hear it"? Oohashi et al have found that the brain responds to 25kHz even if the owner of the brain doesn't think they can hear the sound. respond how? some vague physiological effect is completely meaningless. 17 Hz can't be heard but it can cause epilepsy, and infra sound that you can't hear distorts the eye and this is why some see 'ghosts' or feel they are being watched it's sound waves on the eye. this isn't about subsonic sounds. You should try listening to a l a r g e organ. You feel the lower notes rather than hear them. Also some drums. so what? that was never in dispute. the issue *you* brought up was high frequency sounds, not low. now you're moving the ol' goalposts around. Nope. Just adding them to the mix. I have already told you of high frequency sounds which can't be heard but still can be detected. if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. Wrong true. someone could have an oscilloscope wired up, and detect it that way. humans can't detect sounds above the limit of human hearing using their ears. |
#17
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
On 5/27/2017 3:04 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN wrote: if humans can't hear it, then there's no point in reproducing it. But what is "can't hear it"? Oohashi et al have found that the brain responds to 25kHz even if the owner of the brain doesn't think they can hear the sound. respond how? some vague physiological effect is completely meaningless. 17 Hz can't be heard but it can cause epilepsy, and infra sound that you can't hear distorts the eye and this is why some see 'ghosts' or feel they are being watched it's sound waves on the eye. this isn't about subsonic sounds. You should try listening to a l a r g e organ. You feel the lower notes rather than hear them. Also some drums. so what? that was never in dispute. the issue *you* brought up was high frequency sounds, not low. now you're moving the ol' goalposts around. Nope. Just adding them to the mix. I have already told you of high frequency sounds which can't be heard but still can be detected. if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. Wrong true. someone could have an oscilloscope wired up, and detect it that way. humans can't detect sounds above the limit of human hearing using their ears. The limit on human hearing is not the issue. The issue is the ability to distinguish tonal differences. e.g. In my younger days I had a sense of perfect pitch. The vast majority of people do not. While one may not hear undertones and overtones with their ears, in the traditional meaning, there are other senses that kick in. Of course if you spend your days listening to heavy metal, you will lose that ability. As to all people seeing the same color: http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jul-aug/06-humans-with-super-human-vision The same principle applies to othr senses such as taste. But then, you don't want to learn. You would rather argue. -- PeterN |
#18
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
Nospam wrote:
-hh wrote: if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. Absolutely false. it's not false. it's common sense. There's means of detection other than the ears. audio signals are heard. if they can't be heard, they do not matter. at all. You're trying to use a self-licking ice cream come. I can kill you with acoustic signals that aren't "perceptible" by your definition: still want to try to believe that they don't matter? none of this specious 'but it alters brain waves'. everything alters brain waves. what matters is can it be heard. Not even talking about that stuff. Look up Larry Sturdivan's models. FYI, I have a friend whose hearing was highly impaired in an industrial accident ... root cause was that the hairs in his inner ear were selectively destroyed at the **harmonics** of the frequency source. and? And you don't know about harmonics? Really? Push a 30kHz acoustic signal strongly enough and 15KHz sensors will respond to it .. such as the ones in your ear. Ditto for 7.5kHz (1/4 wavelength) and so forth. If it's a strong enough signal, the hairs aren't merely saturated, but are permanently destroyed. Last time I talked to him specifically about this, he said that the hearing aids that were purchased under Workman's Comp cost $10K. But he'd rather have his hearing & life back, as it also resulted in a problem with his Euststians too, so he's no longer able to fly (work or pleasure). He's talking a cross-country train (not really by choice) to get out to Oregeon for his photography of the Solar Eclipse this coming August. -hh |
#19
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
On Sat, 27 May 2017 10:59:23 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: if humans can't hear it, then there's no point in reproducing it. But what is "can't hear it"? Oohashi et al have found that the brain responds to 25kHz even if the owner of the brain doesn't think they can hear the sound. respond how? some vague physiological effect is completely meaningless. 17 Hz can't be heard but it can cause epilepsy, and infra sound that you can't hear distorts the eye and this is why some see 'ghosts' or feel they are being watched it's sound waves on the eye. this isn't about subsonic sounds. You should try listening to a l a r g e organ. You feel the lower notes rather than hear them. Also some drums. so what? that was never in dispute. the issue *you* brought up was high frequency sounds, not low. now you're moving the ol' goalposts around. Nope. Just adding them to the mix. I have already told you of high frequency sounds which can't be heard but still can be detected. if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. The evidence is that the brain can. there is no evidence it can be heard. you even admitted that there's no evidence. You keep quibling. The ultimate recipient of the sound signals are the brain. The ears are the primary channel through which the sound is delivered but they are not the only channel. See http://www.goldendance.co.jp/English...onduct/01.html and particularly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_hearing -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#20
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David Brooks aka the stalking weasel
On Sat, 27 May 2017 15:04:31 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , PeterN wrote: if humans can't hear it, then there's no point in reproducing it. But what is "can't hear it"? Oohashi et al have found that the brain responds to 25kHz even if the owner of the brain doesn't think they can hear the sound. respond how? some vague physiological effect is completely meaningless. 17 Hz can't be heard but it can cause epilepsy, and infra sound that you can't hear distorts the eye and this is why some see 'ghosts' or feel they are being watched it's sound waves on the eye. this isn't about subsonic sounds. You should try listening to a l a r g e organ. You feel the lower notes rather than hear them. Also some drums. so what? that was never in dispute. the issue *you* brought up was high frequency sounds, not low. now you're moving the ol' goalposts around. Nope. Just adding them to the mix. I have already told you of high frequency sounds which can't be heard but still can be detected. if they can't be heard, they can't be detected. Wrong true. someone could have an oscilloscope wired up, and detect it that way. humans can't detect sounds above the limit of human hearing using their ears. Now you are really quibbling. Are you ruling out that part of sound which reaches the brain via bone conduction? -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
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