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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To Register Surveillance Cameras
On 2017-04-30 18:35:10 +0000, "Mayayana" said:
"nospam" wrote | tony twists everything he reads, solely to argue. This is getting doggone surreal. It got surreal with RichA's OP, and went downhill from there. -- Regards, Savageduck |
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To Register Surveillance Cameras
In article 2017043012100373557-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote: If you have an issue with individual police file a Citizen's Complaint. which will be reviewed by other cops, who almost always find the cop in question was 'following procedure'. they cover for each other. very rarely does a cop get fired. |
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To Register Surveillance Cameras
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote: I was talking about the risks of mass surveillance. One risk is the psychology of the sadistic, petty tyrant; a type often attracted to positions of authority. You assume that risk if you take the risk of speeding. Follow the traffic laws and you never have to talk to one of those petty tyrants. not true at all. it's impossible to follow all traffic laws, which means anyone can be pulled over at any time and nothing stops a cop from pulling someone over even without seeing a violation. That's where the cops come in. Law enforcement is people. No better and no worse. They're not angels who took birth on Earth to save your front lawn from hoodlums. You took my point and twisted it into the lies of a reckless, scofflaw, cop-hater. I didn't need to twist anything. You said you got caught in a "speed trap" but furnished no explanation of what was the "trap" aspect. To me, a "speed trap" is where something unethical is done in order to trap you...a sudden drop in the speed limit without proper warning, hidden signs, or some aspect in which there is a element that stops you from being aware of the need to slow down. your definition is very different from the rest of the world. I don't consider it unethical for the cop to position himself where you can't see him. If you choose to exceed the speed limit, or you carelessly exceed it because you are inattentive, it's your fault if you get caught. The fact that other drivers are also exceeding the limit is not an excuse. when the posted speed limit is inappropriate for the road, then it's *not* the driver's fault, as is evidenced by everyone driving above it. If you need to see the cop to reduce your speed to the posted limit, you are only doing it because you don't want to be caught. that's why cops should be out patrolling for all sorts of crimes rather than hiding behind an overpass to catch someone driving above the posted speed limit who poses no danger to anyone, just to make a few bucks for the city/town. You decided to indulge yourself in an elderly good guys vs bad guys fantasy, cooking up your version of my story without ever really reading what I'd written. Bull****. I read what you wrote. Sour grapes for getting caught. You didn't even say you were not over the limit. everyone drives over the posted limit pretty much every time they drive, including you. I don't see you as a scofflaw or a reckless driver because you got a couple of speeding tickets, but complaining about being caught in a speed trap doesn't paint you in a good light when there's no indication of any trap involved. Man-up to your own mistake. there's ample evidence it was a speed trap and he isn't the one who made the mistake. |
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To Register Surveillance Cameras
On 2017-04-30 20:47:08 +0000, nospam said:
In article 2017043012100373557-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote: If you have an issue with individual police file a Citizen's Complaint. which will be reviewed by other cops, who almost always find the cop in question was 'following procedure'. they cover for each other. very rarely does a cop get fired. Cops get fired far more often than folks like you believe. I have been the lead investigator in quite a number of IA and BIR (California Bureau of Internal Reveiw) investigations which resulted in the subject officer having to leave the agency/department. The results when the allegations are substantiated, can vary from referral for prosecution, immediate dismissal, resignation with prejudice, or resignation without prejudice. Then there are the suspension (for up to 1 year) or reduction of pay (usually 5, 10, or 15% for up to a year), or reduction in rank penalties for most conduct violations which would not result in dismissal. Also new, or probationary cops can, and do fail probation to leave the department with little to no fanfare. It is a myth that "rarely does a cop get fired." Dismisal, or a compelled resignation is something which is far more frequent than folks like you have knowledge of. BTW: In California State agencies, and most PDs results of personnel action due to IA investigation are usually confidential unless DA referral and prosecution is the result. -- Regards, Savageduck |
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To Register Surveillance Cameras
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 14:50:13 -0700, Savageduck
wrote: It is a myth that "rarely does a cop get fired." Dismisal, or a compelled resignation is something which is far more frequent than folks like you have knowledge of. It really depends on the department. For example, the Las Vegas police have near zero tolerance for misbehavior. Lots of cops get fired here. That's not necessarily the case in neighboring Henderson, though. There are certainly many departments where they always circle the wagons. In time, they'll all become a lot stricter. Federal oversight and lawsuits tend to get their attention. |
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To Register Surveillance Cameras
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote: | tony twists everything he reads, solely to argue. This is getting doggone surreal. You want surreal? Let's put nospam in charge of a city. He's said that speed limits are too low, so in his city he changes the speed limit on a residential street from 30 mph to 40 mph. only because drivers are already going 40 mph. He's said that most drivers exceed the speed limit, so in his city the drivers now blast down a residential street at 50 mph or more. your first of *many* false assumptions. raising the posted speed limit has a negligible effect on actual speeds. given that the prevailing speed is *already* 40 mph, raising the posted speed limit *to* 40 will bring just about everyone into compliance, leaving the truly dangerous drivers for the cops to target. in other words, going from 99% violators to 1% violators (numbers not exact but close enough to make the point) lets the cops concentrate on those who actually pose a danger to themselves and others. instead of a non-stop stream of violators, only the actually dangerous people will stand out. that means the rest of your babble is complete rubbish since it's based on a a false assumption, but nevertheless, might as well smash a few more myths. He's said that insurance companies fund police radar guns, so in his city he prohibits this. The police in his city, then, cannot provide court-required proof of speeding offenses so speeders aren't given tickets. another false assumption. cops don't need radar/lidar to determine someone is driving in an unsafe manner, and not just speeding. Since we know that most traffic accidents that don't involve alcohol or drugs are caused by driving too fast for conditions or inability to stop in time due to speed, accident rates increase in nospam's city because police can't ticket speeders. yet another false assumption. driving too fast for conditions is *not* the same as driving above the posted speed limit. you are attempting to move the goalposts. why am i not surprised. Insurance companies raise the rates because insurance rates are based partially on local accident history. yet another false assumption. since the speeds at which drivers travel will not change by any significant amount when the posted limit is changed (a few mph, typically), there will not be a significant change in collisions, therefore there is no need to raise rates, other than the usual insurance company greed which has nothing to do with your babble. since auto insurance is mandatory almost everywhere (and now health insurance as well), insurance companies can set whatever rates they want and customers have to pay, all the while they cut benefits. it's one of the biggest scams going. it's generally a *far* better deal to self-insure, particularly for safe drivers, except that it's illegal to do so (with rare exception). Some insurance carriers may withdraw from the market in that city because they are paying out so much, so the competition is decreased allowing all remaining carriers to raise rate. another false assumption. To prevent accidents caused by speeding, nospam's city then has to buy radar guns from their own budget. no need for radar/lidar guns at all. there's also *no* reason why they cost as much as they do either. To replace the budget shortfall, the city increases taxes and makes all drivers pay for the actions of a few. they already do. that's how insurance works. He's agreed with you that speed traps are wrong and just a way to increase city revenue, so in nospam's city police must be visible to all motorists when checking for traffic violations. The drivers in nospam's city now know they can drive at any speed if no police are visible. false assumption again. drivers do not drive at any speed they want when no cops are around. this is yet another myth. In nospam's city, if 99% of the drivers break speeding laws,"the law itself must be bad". So, nospam eliminates speeding laws. With no restrictions on speed, motorists are free to zoom through school zones at any speed and generally drive at any speed they choose and the accident rate increases. yet another twist, and yet another false assumption. Fire departments (if nospam's city is in a state where firefighters are first-responders to traffic accidents) must add personnel, vehicles, and tools like the "jaws of life" to deal with the increased number of accidents. Taxes go up in nospam's city to fund this. another false assumption. there is *zero* evidence there will be more collisions. Hospitals have to add personnel to the ERs to deal with the increased number of accidents, so their rates go up. Insurance companies have to pay for much of that, so their rates go up. the list of false assumptions continues to grow... In nospam's city, funding from traffic violation fines is wrong and must be eliminated. But, the city still has to have funds to have a police department, fire department, and other departments that provide service to the residents, so tax and permit rates are bumped up even more. New construction is impeded because permits cost so much and taxes are so high. That means fewer jobs. ...and grow... You want to live in nospam's city? do not call that fictional place my city. Wait a few years. His city will present a lot of opportunities for photographers who want to photograph ghost towns. you truly are an idiot. |
#27
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To RegisterSurveillance Cameras
On 4/30/2017 5:25 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 14:35:10 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: "nospam" wrote | tony twists everything he reads, solely to argue. This is getting doggone surreal. You want surreal? Let's put nospam in charge of a city. He's said that speed limits are too low, so in his city he changes the speed limit on a residential street from 30 mph to 40 mph. He's said that most drivers exceed the speed limit, so in his city the drivers now blast down a residential street at 50 mph or more. He's said that insurance companies fund police radar guns, so in his city he prohibits this. The police in his city, then, cannot provide court-required proof of speeding offenses so speeders aren't given tickets. Since we know that most traffic accidents that don't involve alcohol or drugs are caused by driving too fast for conditions or inability to stop in time due to speed, accident rates increase in nospam's city because police can't ticket speeders. Insurance companies raise the rates because insurance rates are based partially on local accident history. Some insurance carriers may withdraw from the market in that city because they are paying out so much, so the competition is decreased allowing all remaining carriers to raise rate. To prevent accidents caused by speeding, nospam's city then has to buy radar guns from their own budget. To replace the budget shortfall, the city increases taxes and makes all drivers pay for the actions of a few. He's agreed with you that speed traps are wrong and just a way to increase city revenue, so in nospam's city police must be visible to all motorists when checking for traffic violations. The drivers in nospam's city now know they can drive at any speed if no police are visible. When drivers see a cop on the side of the road, they drive slower. If safety is the goal, having a cop visible to motorists is better than having one hiding in order to play "gotcha" for the purpose of giving a ticket. It is all about revenue, just as red light cameras are. A motorists who passes a speed trap going in the opposite direction may flash his lights warning drivers in the other direction that they are approaching a speed trap so that they will slow down. If driving slower is the goal, the goal has now been met. Yet cops have gone after people who warn other motorists about a speed trap and ticketed them. If they want motorists to slow down, why would they hassle someone who got motorists to slow down? Because they can't write tickets unless people are speeding. Despite any claim to the contrary, the cops have ticket quotas to fill. The Commissioner of the NYPD, as well as other NYPD officials, will look you right in the eye and tell you that there are no ticket quotas in the NYPD. That's because they don't call it a quota, they call it a "performance goal". When NYC needs an infusion of cash, they are instructed to write more tickets. My son has had his performance goal set in concrete numbers. He must write x amount of moving violations and x amount of non-moving violation tickets per month. It's all about the money. In nospam's city, if 99% of the drivers break speeding laws, "the law itself must be bad". So, nospam eliminates speeding laws. With no restrictions on speed, motorists are free to zoom through school zones at any speed and generally drive at any speed they choose and the accident rate increases. Fire departments (if nospam's city is in a state where firefighters are first-responders to traffic accidents) must add personnel, vehicles, and tools like the "jaws of life" to deal with the increased number of accidents. Taxes go up in nospam's city to fund this. Hospitals have to add personnel to the ERs to deal with the increased number of accidents, so their rates go up. Insurance companies have to pay for much of that, so their rates go up. In nospam's city, funding from traffic violation fines is wrong and must be eliminated. But, the city still has to have funds to have a police department, fire department, and other departments that provide service to the residents, so tax and permit rates are bumped up even more. New construction is impeded because permits cost so much and taxes are so high. That means fewer jobs. You want to live in nospam's city? Wait a few years. His city will present a lot of opportunities for photographers who want to photograph ghost towns. |
#28
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To RegisterSurveillance Cameras
On 4/30/2017 5:50 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-04-30 20:47:08 +0000, nospam said: In article 2017043012100373557-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote: If you have an issue with individual police file a Citizen's Complaint. which will be reviewed by other cops, who almost always find the cop in question was 'following procedure'. they cover for each other. very rarely does a cop get fired. Cops get fired far more often than folks like you believe. I have been the lead investigator in quite a number of IA and BIR (California Bureau of Internal Reveiw) investigations which resulted in the subject officer having to leave the agency/department. The results when the allegations are substantiated, can vary from referral for prosecution, immediate dismissal, resignation with prejudice, or resignation without prejudice. Then there are the suspension (for up to 1 year) or reduction of pay (usually 5, 10, or 15% for up to a year), or reduction in rank penalties for most conduct violations which would not result in dismissal. Also new, or probationary cops can, and do fail probation to leave the department with little to no fanfare. It is a myth that "rarely does a cop get fired." Dismisal, or a compelled resignation is something which is far more frequent than folks like you have knowledge of. BTW: In California State agencies, and most PDs results of personnel action due to IA investigation are usually confidential unless DA referral and prosecution is the result. In New York, the results of an IA investigation are kept confidential as a matter of law. IMO, that is a bad law. I believe the public has a right to know the facts about a public servant's disciplinary history. |
#29
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To RegisterSurveillance Cameras
On 4/29/2017 10:47 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-04-30 01:32:09 +0000, "Mayayana" said: "Savageduck" wrote | Do you suppose the friendly officer might give you a break | at that next speed trap scam? | | You have a very twisted view of reality, and I am sure that you would | not hesitate to call 911 when you have a need for law enforcement or | other emergency services. | It's all true. In your mind, and as portrayed in fantasy. I have nothing against cops. Apparantly you do. It is a tough job. Yup! At the same time, they get very good benefits. (At least where I live. They're gov't workers, which are just about the only people still getting pensions.) As I have said, I cannot complain about the benefits I earned while I worked, and my pension was also earned, and not without my monthly contribution (we do not get Social Security, just MediCare). I also contributed to my 457 and 401 accounts. Every once in awhile the local papers publish the astonishing overtime pay. some in boston making 300K+ with overtime. There are overtime hogs everywhere. However, not all of that overtime is voluntary. Many times officers are ordered over due to staff shortages, and unanticipated incidents. What some fail to recognize is that in many cases it's simply cheaper to have officers work overtime than it would be to hire more officers. What LEOs encounter and are responsible for is unpredictable, conditions can change in an instant. It's not easy to predict a precise amount of hours that will be needed from one day to the next. Mass seems to be the only state where, thanks to state police lobbying, an actual cop is required to be in attendance for all road work. They sit there in their cars, lights flashing. Required by law. That depends on the State. On California State routes, and some Interstates where major work is in progress, and sometimes (but, not all times) when CalTrans is engaged in work on State/Interstate Hwys You might find a CHP officer in attendance. There is a reason for that: http://www.dot.ca.gov/paffairs/workersmemorial/worker-fatality-statistics.html https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/wz/resources/facts_stats/safety.htm I believe in CT an officer is always on hand at a construction zone. You illustrated exactly why these laws/regulations exist. People do not drive as cautiously as they should through construction zones, at least from what I have seen as I've traveled through them and I've traveled through more than I can remember. When I was a teenager I worked at a drugstore. At least half the local cops expected to come in and get whatever they wanted for a token price. I asked the pharmacist about it. He said if we didn't pay them off they wouldn't show up if there was a break-in. When you were a teenager, where? I don't doubt that you experience that sort of corruption. However, today, that in my experience is the exception rather than the rule. In Suffolk County as well as other (if not all) departments, accepting freebies or reduced rates is against regulations. But I have to say that I see it all the time, particularly at a convenience store near my home that I'm in quite often. One particular cop walks in, gets her coffee, snacks, etc. and just walks out. Everytime, and I've seen it happen quite often. After my son got on the job, other cops pointed out all of the local businesses in the precinct that "do the right thing" which is code for giving the officers freebies or reduced rates. Sadly, accepting freebies is not the exception around here. I've told my son never to accept one and as far as I know, he's heeded my advice. Though there was one detective who absolutely refused any discount. A man of ethics. I've never met a fireman who didn't have a second job. High risk, yes. But enough free time for two jobs. I don't know what sort of FD they worked for, but I would take into consideration the type of schedule they worked. Different departments work different schedules. Some work 24 hours on, 24 hours off, with 2 consecutive days off every two weeks. Some work far more grueling schedules with 4 x 24 hour days on, and 3 days off. Not many have the energy for that extra job. Some of them have second jobs out of necessity. As someone with your years of experience, you know there were times when cop and firefighter salaries weren't high enough to support a family. My father-in-law is a retired NYC Battalion Chief. When he started in the FDNY, he had to have a second job to support his family because his paycheck wasn't big enough. He knew that it would be some time before his job in the FDNY paid enough. But he loved his job and stuck with it. I think that the camaraderie of firefighters in the FDNY is much better than it is in the NYPD. Their daily situations are different. They literally live with each other when they are working and they work as a larger unit than two cops who are partnered and patrol the streets. For you to deny those things would be immature, Deny what things? That some firemen work a second job when they are not scheduled to work? Sure that happens, but that is not what most of those folks do, it is only what you believe ALL of them do. That is your particular prejudice. In my case, I was subject to being ordered over for additional hours due to staff shortage or unexpected incident. I have also been called back, and ordered in to work hours after getting home. It is not a 9 to 5 job with weekends and holidays off. just as it would be unreasonable for me, as a contractor, to contest the fact that plenty of contractors cheat people. In neither case are the stereotypes the norm, but in both cases the nature of the job lends itself to fulfilling those stereotypes. My point exactly, and also not every public employee, cop, firefighter, road worker, or DMV desk jockey is corrupt. Not every? I think "not every" is not a fair way of putting it. It's "the vast majority" of public employees. It's a slight minority that are dishonest. The last cop I talked to was the one who caught me in a speed trap scam several years ago. He started asking all sorts of questions, like where was I going? Who did I work for? I finally said none of his questions had anything to do with my infraction. He got haughty and wrote me extra tickets, for a dirty license plate and not wearing a seat belt. He didn't pretend that he wasn't lying about that. I was wearing a seatbelt. He just smiled and challenged me to argue with him again. I contested the ticket and won, but the fees cost me about the same as the ticket! So, you encountered an asshole cop. They exist, and they should lose their jobs. Many do. What you should have done is file a formal Citizen's Complaint. Most every law enforcement ageny has a means to formally file a Citizen's Complaint. Check your State DOJ, and Municipal/City PD web sites for more info. For Mass. for example there is this. http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/msp/citizen-concerns.html Everyone knows the only way to get along with such cops is to grovel. They need to be boss. It's happened to me time and again. Of course it doesn't happen every time. My next door neighbor is a retired cop. Very sweet guy. And if I need to I'll call 911. and I'll appreciate the help. So please don't get all high and mighty about respect for cops. To ignore the potential for corruption would be naive and dangerous. I am not getting "high and mighty about respect for cops". When it comes to respect, cops like anybody else need to earn that respect. However, you seem to have some ingrained prejudices against law enforcement officers and other public employees. That I take issue with because that is not how I conducted myself in Law enforcement for 25 years, and it is not how the vast majority of officers, and firefighters I have worked with, conduct themselves. |
#30
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Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To RegisterSurveillance Cameras
On 4/30/2017 3:08 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-04-30 06:36:14 +0000, "David B." said: On 30/04/2017 01:55, Savageduck wrote: At one point I worked two 18 hour days in a row and on the drive home I fell asleep at the wheel with this result. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dphxmzh5p3ihkt2/Ford_12.JPG https://www.dropbox.com/s/chwxl7cfn6pvmng/Ford_15.JPG Oops! Oops indeed. Damn! Had no idea that happened to you. Thankfully you lived to tell us about it. I hope you were not badly hurt. I was lucky. The car performed a barrel roll, and ended up on the roof. It then slid into an embankment on the opposite side of the road, that triggered the airbags. The airbag blew my right hand off the steering wheel, and up through the now shattered sunroof. Unfortunately the car was still sliding on the roof, so my right hand got chewed up quite a bit, nothing broken. Just a lot like raw ham. Along with the airbag working, the seatbelt worked pretty good. I was left hanging upside down, and got a wicked seatbelt burn across my left collarbone and chest. The hand injury kept me out of work for two weeks. It healed up nicely, and all is well. That was back in 1995. I wish you a long and happy retirement. :-) So far so good. I pulled the plug in 2009 to become a member of the Great Army of The Gainfully Unemployed. |
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