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Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 31st 18, 06:47 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
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Posts: 521
Default Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?

On 7/31/2018 10:35 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On Jul 31, 2018, Neil wrote
(in article ):

On 7/30/2018 3:01 PM, Savageduck wrote:
On Jul 30, 2018, Neil wrote
(in article ):

On 7/30/2018 10:21 AM, Savageduck wrote:

If the Win10 update has screwed with PSE 15, the same issue with PSE 13
would not be unusual. Naturally MS will probably admit no fault, and expect
Adobe to come up with a fix for their screw up. Then they will screw up
something else with their next update.
I think your analysis misses a major issue that has existed with apps
since Windows 3.0. It is not at all uncommon for app developers to
disregard MS specifications, even for Adobe apps. The result is that
while an app may run on the current version of Windows, the next
upgrade/update would cause it to become unreliable or fail completely.

Another issue, though not relevant to this situation, is that some users
who don't understand the changes that a newer Windows OS introduces try
to run older apps on the newer OS and experience problems or failures.

In either case, the problems are not caused by MS, but by those
disregarding published requirements for the OS.

That raises the question; why should developers have to chase their tails if
they have delivered an app, any app, that conforms to current OS specs, only
to have their app functions undermined by a fractional OS update?

The problem that I described is that the apps *don't* conform to
"current OS specs"... they may RUN on the current OS, but are not
compliant with the published specs. I've seen this kind of problem
created by code that ignores the specs and compilers that were out-of-date.

That still sounds like a failure on the part of MS. It seems that every Win
update brings fresh issues, from broken printer drivers, to stuff such as
Paul’s PSE 15 issue.


It seems to me that PSE is the problem, since both the current and
earlier version 13 failed in (presumably) the same way.


While Paul might have a responsibility to have PSE updated to match the
current incremental Win10 update, one should consider that it was an
incremental, not a major Win10 update that seems to have broken both editions
of PSE he uses.

It is a presumption that I would not count on that a spec will only be
implemented in a "major Win10 update". If the current version of PSE
runs on the current OS version, that says all that one needs to know
about where the problem lies.

Most developers plan and work on updates for their software in concert with
Beta releases of OS updates/upgrades.

That doesn't mean that they create compliant apps because Beta releases
don't always incorporate all aspects that are in the OS specifications
but the final release does. Developers have to stay "in step" by making
sure their apps are compliant, and while many do, some don't, choosing
not to fix the app until it's broken by a newer OS version. As I see it,
the issue is that it's critical to stay compliant now that Win10
delivers new OS versions frequently and without user interaction.


From the perspective of a macOS user it still looks like a uniquely Win10
issue. Fortunately for me Win10 is a non-issue, I have not used Windows of
any vintage since I retired in 2009. That does not mean that I cannot
appreciate Paul’s dilemma.

Isn't the perspective of non-Windows users pretty irrelevant when
addressing these kinds of issues? I'm speaking from decades of
experience with Windows and all kinds of apps, including some Adobe
apps, that have taught me to look into these issues from a fact-based
perspective that included reading MS' published specs. I still follow
these programming-related matters on a _daily_ basis.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #12  
Old July 31st 18, 09:30 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?

In article , Neil
wrote:


That still sounds like a failure on the part of MS. It seems that every
Win
update brings fresh issues, from broken printer drivers, to stuff such as
Paul¹s PSE 15 issue.

It seems to me that PSE is the problem, since both the current and
earlier version 13 failed in (presumably) the same way.


While Paul might have a responsibility to have PSE updated to match the
current incremental Win10 update, one should consider that it was an
incremental, not a major Win10 update that seems to have broken both
editions
of PSE he uses.


It is a presumption that I would not count on that a spec will only be
implemented in a "major Win10 update". If the current version of PSE
runs on the current OS version, that says all that one needs to know
about where the problem lies.


it says absolutely nothing.

microsoft could have broken something in the update, such as what they
did with anniversary update, and then fix it shortly after:

https://lifehacker.com/windows-10-an...e-millions-of-
webcams-1785545990
The Windows 10 Anniversary Update has reportedly broken millions of
webcams. If your webcam has been affected, there¹s a workaround to
get it back if you don¹t mind tweaking your registry a bit.

or are you going to claim that millions of webcams were at fault
because before anniversary update, they were working fine?

more recently:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-10-windows-in
stall/devices-with-certain-intel-ssds-may-enter-a-uefi/703ab5d8-d93e-432
1-b8cc-c70ce22ce2f1
Devices with Intel SSD 600p Series or Intel SSD Pro 6000p Series may
crash and enter a UEFI screen after reboot when upgrading to Windows
10 April 2018 Update
....
Update (6/22/18):
Microsoft has included a solution for this issue in the May 23, 2018
Cumulative Update (KB4100403). This solution prevents the issue from
occurring when installing the April 2018 Update.

are you going to claim that intel ssds, a standard m.2 device, which
were working fine before the update and made by the same company that
makes the processors in most windows pcs (i.e, not some noname chinese
crap), were non-compliant and at fault?

in both cases (and many others), microsoft admitted they ****ed up and
released a fix.

microsoft's track record is not very good.

sometimes (although not as much lately), they intentionally break
things to force users to upgrade.

From the perspective of a macOS user it still looks like a uniquely Win10
issue. Fortunately for me Win10 is a non-issue, I have not used Windows of
any vintage since I retired in 2009. That does not mean that I cannot
appreciate Paul¹s dilemma.

Isn't the perspective of non-Windows users pretty irrelevant when
addressing these kinds of issues?


absolutely not.

the very same issues apply to all platforms.

I'm speaking from decades of
experience with Windows and all kinds of apps, including some Adobe
apps, that have taught me to look into these issues from a fact-based
perspective that included reading MS' published specs. I still follow
these programming-related matters on a _daily_ basis.


lots of words that say nothing.

you have absolutely no idea what the cause of this particular issue is
and are just guessing.

without crash logs, debugging tools, source code to the relevant parts
and a solid understanding of how it all fits together (none of which
you have), there's no way to know exactly what the cause is.

rarely is it what it first appears to be and many times, not due to one
single cause.

even if a developer follows the specs to the letter, things can still
break. nothing is 100% bug-free.

i remember chris cox talking about how photoshop would crash on certain
pcs while other apps worked fine and people were quick to blame adobe.

it turned out to be buggy drivers and photoshop was the only app to
push things hard enough to cause it to fail.
  #13  
Old July 31st 18, 10:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 521
Default Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?

On 7/31/2018 4:30 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil
wrote:


If the current version of PSE
runs on the current OS version, that says all that one needs to know
about where the problem lies.


it says absolutely nothing.

microsoft could have broken something in the update, such as what they
did with anniversary update, and then fix it shortly after:

The CURRENT VERSION of PSE is Photoshop Elements 2018. IF IT RUNS on the
OS without failing, it is OBVIOUS that versions 13 & 15 are non-compliant.

It would be really good if you would learn to read before you comment.
This will be my last response to your posts.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #14  
Old July 31st 18, 10:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?

In article , Neil
wrote:


If the current version of PSE
runs on the current OS version, that says all that one needs to know
about where the problem lies.


it says absolutely nothing.

microsoft could have broken something in the update, such as what they
did with anniversary update, and then fix it shortly after:


The CURRENT VERSION of PSE is Photoshop Elements 2018. IF IT RUNS on the
OS without failing, it is OBVIOUS that versions 13 & 15 are non-compliant.


nope. it doesn't work that way.

It would be really good if you would learn to read before you comment.


it would be really good if you understood something about software
development before spouting.

This will be my last response to your posts.


of course it will, because you know you're full of ****.
  #15  
Old August 1st 18, 03:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Philip Statham
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Posts: 2
Default Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 15:56:13 +0200, Paul Carmichael
wrote:

On 30/07/18 14:49, Savageduck wrote:
On Jul 30, 2018, Paul Carmichael wrote
(in article ):

Just went to use Elements 15 on this W10 Pro64 box and it just freezes. So
does version13. Lightroom works just fine.

Anybody else seen this? I used the program a few weeks ago. Tried to restore
to a previous state but the operation fails (no reason given - good old MS).


Have you recently updated Win10?

If so, you might try a full reinstall of PSE 15.


Completely removed and re-installed. Just as broken. Even the window controls are
unresponsive, so very dead.



Strange. PSE 12 runs OK on my Win 10 machine with the latest O/S
updates
  #16  
Old August 1st 18, 03:17 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Philip Statham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 16:11:03 +0200, Paul Carmichael
wrote:

On 01/08/18 16:05, Philip Statham wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 15:56:13 +0200, Paul Carmichael
wrote:

On 30/07/18 14:49, Savageduck wrote:
On Jul 30, 2018, Paul Carmichael wrote
(in article ):

Just went to use Elements 15 on this W10 Pro64 box and it just freezes. So
does version13. Lightroom works just fine.

Anybody else seen this? I used the program a few weeks ago. Tried to restore
to a previous state but the operation fails (no reason given - good old MS).

Have you recently updated Win10?

If so, you might try a full reinstall of PSE 15.


Completely removed and re-installed. Just as broken. Even the window controls are
unresponsive, so very dead.



Strange. PSE 12 runs OK on my Win 10 machine with the latest O/S
updates


Mine has updated again this morning. Will it have re-applied the dodgy fix? Or maybe
today's fix fixes the bug.

PSE works today.


One of life's little mysteries (:))
  #17  
Old August 1st 18, 07:09 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
David Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,146
Default Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?

On 30/07/2018 20:01, Savageduck wrote:
[]
That raises the question; why should developers have to chase their tails if
they have delivered an app, any app, that conforms to current OS specs, only
to have their app functions undermined by a fractional OS update?

That still sounds like a failure on the part of MS. It seems that every Win
update brings fresh issues, from broken printer drivers, to stuff such as
Paul’s PSE 15 issue.

Most developers plan and work on updates for their software in concert with
Beta releases of OS updates/upgrades.


But are Adobe conforming to current specs? How is it that hundreds of
thousands of programs continue to work correctly, when only this one
from Adobe appears not to?

There are at least two beta levels beyond the current release (in
multiple versions) readily available to developers to test their
products, and I would be surprised if Adobe were not carrying out
extensive testing, and that the present issue is just one of those
unfortunate combination of several different things.

I have seen instances where when memory becomes more fully used, only
then does faulty memory become discovered!

Drivers for older devices are a problem - how far back do you expect the
manufacturer of the device to go? I don't see that as an MS issue, to
be honest, more one for the device manufacturer. There must be plenty
of cameras and cars requiring unobtainable parts which are now "beyond
economic repair".

On Apple's side, dropping support for 32-bit programs has resulted in me
losing some iPad apps.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #18  
Old August 1st 18, 07:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Anyone else having probs with elements and w10?

In article , David Taylor
wrote:

That raises the question; why should developers have to chase their tails if
they have delivered an app, any app, that conforms to current OS specs, only
to have their app functions undermined by a fractional OS update?

That still sounds like a failure on the part of MS. It seems that every Win
update brings fresh issues, from broken printer drivers, to stuff such as
Paul¹s PSE 15 issue.

Most developers plan and work on updates for their software in concert with
Beta releases of OS updates/upgrades.


But are Adobe conforming to current specs?


yes.

it would be foolish not to, especially for a company as high profile as
adobe.

How is it that hundreds of
thousands of programs continue to work correctly, when only this one
from Adobe appears not to?


because one or more apis that adobe uses which other apps do not
changed in the update.

microsoft updates tend to break things, and not just adobe.

anniversary update broke web cams. 1803 broke many apps, including many
of microsoft's own apps.

how is it that microsoft doesn't 'conform to current specs', the specs
*they* created?

https://www.computerworld.com/articl...indows/win10-1
803-bugs-roll-in-chrome-freezes-skype-burps-alienware-craters-and-hey-co
rtana.html
Microsoft is aware that some devices running the Windows 10 April
2018 Update (version 1803) may hang or freeze when using certain
apps, such as ³Hey Cortana² or Chrome. *
....
It now appears as if the 1803 installer is assigning a new drive
letter to the backup partition becauseŠ I dunno, it¹s Windows.
....
Microsoft is currently blocking these models from installing the
update due to a known incompatibility that may cause these devices to
display a black screen after resuming from battery saver mode.

There are at least two beta levels beyond the current release (in
multiple versions) readily available to developers to test their
products, and I would be surprised if Adobe were not carrying out
extensive testing, and that the present issue is just one of those
unfortunate combination of several different things.


adobe has access to much more than what's available to normal
developers.

they work directly with microsoft and apple, including having both make
changes specifically for adobe apps.

I have seen instances where when memory becomes more fully used, only
then does faulty memory become discovered!


faulty memory has nothing to do with adobe or microsoft.

Drivers for older devices are a problem - how far back do you expect the
manufacturer of the device to go? I don't see that as an MS issue, to
be honest, more one for the device manufacturer. There must be plenty
of cameras and cars requiring unobtainable parts which are now "beyond
economic repair".


yep. 5 years is the legal cutoff for support, with 7 years in some
places, including california.

on the other hand, 3d printers may help with some of that.

On Apple's side, dropping support for 32-bit programs has resulted in me
losing some iPad apps.


take that up with the developers of those apps, who have had *five*
*years* to update them and chose not to.

apple can't force a developer to update their apps, and nothing
prevents another developer from writing a new 64 bit app, perhaps a
much better one.

moving to 64 bit benefits far more users than maintaining compatibility
with abandoned apps.

and it ain't just apple. android will soon require 64 bit apps.

and let's not forget that microsoft suddenly dropped support without
warning for windows mobile when they released windows phone 7. the
'upgrade' was to buy a new phone and new apps.

and then, a year or two later, microsoft released windows phone 8 and
obsoleted windows phone 7.

there was a windows phone 7.8 release for some devices, but not all.
many users were screwed not once, but twice in a couple of years.
 




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