Pricing photos for magazines

Usually magazines have a set payment schedule for use of images. A
relatively new publication (a phone book) wanted to use some of mine and I
charged $50 each for spot use (up to 1/4 page). I since found out that they
charge $1,100 for an ad the same size. Should I consider their ad rates
(next year) when setting my editorial rates?

I rarely get what some of the published guidelines for photos recommend
(e.g., http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm which says $150-350 for
a magazine with the same distribution). I wonder how realistic those rates
are, given that the publishers have a clear advantage (too many folks are
willing to give their photos away just to be seen in print).

--
- Alan Justice

In article . net,
Alan Justice wrote:
I
charged $50 each

I rarely get what some of the published guidelines for photos recommend
(e.g., http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm which says $150-350 for
a magazine with the same distribution). I wonder how realistic those rates
are, given that the publishers have a clear advantage (too many folks are
willing to give their photos away just to be seen in print).

If you can make a living selling pictures for $50, then it is just a matter
of trying to optimize profits: find publications that pay slightly more,
etc.

If you lose money selling pictures for $50 then you are part of the problem
and you should get out of the market.

Amateurs are of course a completely different story.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

What I actually inquired about was whether knowing the ad rate should be
considered in setting editorial pricing. If anyone has any experience, I
would appreciate advice.

I had been asked for one particular photo and could have set a higher price,
but I sent in 21 photos with a lower price and sold $535 worth for 9 of them
(and counting).

--
- Alan Justice

"Philip Homburg" wrote in message
.phicoh.net...
In article . net,
Alan Justice wrote:
I
charged $50 each

I rarely get what some of the published guidelines for photos recommend
(e.g., http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm which says $150-350
for
a magazine with the same distribution). I wonder how realistic those
rates
are, given that the publishers have a clear advantage (too many folks are
willing to give their photos away just to be seen in print).

If you can make a living selling pictures for $50, then it is just a
matter
of trying to optimize profits: find publications that pay slightly more,
etc.

If you lose money selling pictures for $50 then you are part of the
problem
and you should get out of the market.

Amateurs are of course a completely different story.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

In article et,
says...
What I actually inquired about was whether knowing the ad rate should be
considered in setting editorial pricing. If anyone has any experience, I
would appreciate advice.

I had been asked for one particular photo and could have set a higher price,
but I sent in 21 photos with a lower price and sold $535 worth for 9 of them
(and counting).

--
And all this time I thought the music biz was a rip.

Alan Justice wrote:

What I actually inquired about was whether knowing the ad rate should be
considered in setting editorial pricing. If anyone has any experience, I
would appreciate advice.

I had been asked for one particular photo and could have set a higher price,
but I sent in 21 photos with a lower price and sold $535 worth for 9 of them
(and counting).

Some magazines pay nothing for placing that image on a page, though they do
give name credit for the images. The idea with those is that some particular
magazines might be popular with certain advertising people, art directors, or
art buyers. While it sounds horrible, some publications can land you higher
paying ad campaign work.

PDN has sometimes published a listing each fall of what certain magazines and
publishing companies pay photographers. The rates rarely ever match what they
charge advertisers. You might want to check out PDN Forums on line to try and
get a better idea of the business side, and what is now happening in
photography.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

"Alan Justice" wrote:

What I actually inquired about was whether knowing the ad rate should be
considered in setting editorial pricing. If anyone has any experience, I
would appreciate advice.


There is no relationship between advertising rates and what you might
get paid for editorial. However, you can be assured that the
publisher will try to keep the advertising rates as high as possible,
and the rates for images as low as possible - often as low as zero.

I don't recall PDN listing both prices paid to photogs and charges to
advertisers, but I'll go back and look through past issues. My question
here was about a phonebook that does not have a published payment schedule.
They're new and use very few photos.

I have plenty of pricing schedules from magazines. I suppose I could go
online to also find their ad rates. I just don't see the online pricing
schedules as realistic, in my experience. Do you know of an accurate
schedule?

--
- Alan Justice

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
Alan Justice wrote:

What I actually inquired about was whether knowing the ad rate should be
considered in setting editorial pricing. If anyone has any experience,
I
would appreciate advice.

I had been asked for one particular photo and could have set a higher
price,
but I sent in 21 photos with a lower price and sold $535 worth for 9 of
them
(and counting).

Some magazines pay nothing for placing that image on a page, though they
do
give name credit for the images. The idea with those is that some
particular
magazines might be popular with certain advertising people, art directors,
or
art buyers. While it sounds horrible, some publications can land you
higher
paying ad campaign work.

PDN has sometimes published a listing each fall of what certain magazines
and
publishing companies pay photographers. The rates rarely ever match what
they
charge advertisers. You might want to check out PDN Forums on line to try
and
get a better idea of the business side, and what is now happening in
photography.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

Okay. Too bad. It would be nice to have some way to figure what to charge
someone. I think in the past I've charge both too much (no repeat business)
and too little.

--
- Alan Justice

"Tony Polson" wrote in message
news
"Alan Justice" wrote:

What I actually inquired about was whether knowing the ad rate should be
considered in setting editorial pricing. If anyone has any experience, I
would appreciate advice.


There is no relationship between advertising rates and what you might
get paid for editorial. However, you can be assured that the
publisher will try to keep the advertising rates as high as possible,
and the rates for images as low as possible - often as low as zero.

"Alan Justice" wrote:

Okay. Too bad. It would be nice to have some way to figure what to charge
someone. I think in the past I've charge both too much (no repeat business)
and too little.


Rather than trying to work out what charges the market will bear, try
a different approach. Put a value on your services such as a day
rate, and relate your charges to the time taken. Try $1000 a day as a
starting point.

Another approach is to look at the rates charges by agencies for stock
photography. The rates vary depending on the type of publication and
its circulation figures, but they offer a good guide to what
publishers are prepared to pay.

Alan Justice wrote:

I don't recall PDN listing both prices paid to photogs and charges to
advertisers, but I'll go back and look through past issues.

Only rates to photographers. The rates for advertisers change often, so
contacting each publication and getting a media kit would be simpler.

My question
here was about a phonebook that does not have a published payment schedule.
They're new and use very few photos.

Is that a "Creative Directory" or just the "Yellow Pages" type of thing done up
on newsprint? I don't know of much of anything that pays well to be printed on
newsprint.



I have plenty of pricing schedules from magazines. I suppose I could go
online to also find their ad rates. I just don't see the online pricing
schedules as realistic, in my experience. Do you know of an accurate
schedule?

--
- Alan Justice

An accurate rate card depends upon the magazine. If they want companies to
advertise, they will make it easy to find the rates. That applies to Wallpaper,
Dwell, Surface, Vogue, etc. Smaller publications might not be that well
organized. There are a few publications that restrict advertising, or only
accept advertising after their approval of the artwork, though they are the
exception. Lürzer's Archive is unique in that it is free to have an ad
published, but it only gets published if they like it enough.

I wish I knew somewhere that had lots of rate cards and media kits in one
place, but I don't think that exists. The best thing is to pick the
publications you want to consider, and request or download a media kit. I have
never heard of industry standard rates, and I think it solely depends upon
target audience and circulation.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com