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  #1  
Old November 16th 05, 04:10 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
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This being the most serious group of photographers (picture makers) that
I find on the web I thought some of you might be interested in an
article on The New Atlantis website:

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/10/rosen.htm

The author, Christine Rosen, contends that our culture is drowning in
images too easily made by anyone and that the net effect is detrimental
to us. Contrast that with Leonard Schlain's book "The Alphabet Vs. The
Goddess" which credits our immersion in images as being very positive
to the point of making feminism possible and you have quite a difference
of opinion. Stir in a lot of Sontag's bs opinions on photography (my
opinion) and the thoughts of others and I think we have an interesting
discussion. To bad there isn't a newsgroup for rec.photo.philosophy.

Anyway I just thought you might be interested what some think of our
imagemaking pursuits.

Frank Rome, NY

  #2  
Old November 16th 05, 05:21 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:10:58 GMT, Frank
Calidonna wrote:

I think we have an interesting
discussion. To bad there isn't a newsgroup for rec.photo.philosophy.



November 16, 2005, from Lloyd Erlick,

It would probably not be such a busy group,
even compare to rpd.

But what's wrong with using rpd for
discussions of photo.philosophy? It's what
goes through my mind in the dark anyway! Why
define it as off topic -- would anyone object
to such discussion? I've only seen people
object to commercial intrusion and troll
bandwidth wasters.

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email:
net:
www.heylloyd.com
________________________________
--

  #3  
Old November 16th 05, 05:26 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
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"Frank Calidonna" wrote

article on The New Atlantis website:

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/10/rosen.htm

The author, Christine Rosen, contends that our culture is drowning in
images too easily made by anyone and that the net effect is detrimental
to us.


Philosophy and photography I am all for. Adams [the other one] is
a good author in addition to Sontag. Vestal comes through now and
then. There was a very short lived 'Darkroom Techniques' sort of
magazine with a philosophy column.

I am not sure the 'New Atlantis' web site is I would pick for a
discussion on propaganda and photography. The 'Old Atlantis'
is flaky enough.

The motivation for the article appears to come from Rosen's (quoted):

"The second of the Ten Commandments listed in Exodus 20
warns against idolizing, or even making, graven images:

'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,
or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth.'"

May as well discuss photography on soc.taliban

* * *

The site this article appears on is a mouthpiece for:

Ethics and Public Policy Center
http://www.eppc.org/

Associated with something called:

Bioethics and American Democracy

They all get their money from ???

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm
  #4  
Old November 16th 05, 08:36 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
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Default Off Topic, but of interest to this group - I hope

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:


I am not sure the 'New Atlantis' web site is I would pick for a
discussion on propaganda and photography. The 'Old Atlantis'
is flaky enough.

The motivation for the article appears to come from Rosen's (quoted):

"The second of the Ten Commandments listed in Exodus 20
warns against idolizing, or even making, graven images:

'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,
or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth.'"

May as well discuss photography on soc.taliban

* * *

The site this article appears on is a mouthpiece for:

Ethics and Public Policy Center
http://www.eppc.org/

Associated with something called:

Bioethics and American Democracy

They all get their money from ???


I go to the Art & Letters Daily website every morning. They review
books, articles and essays all over the web and post four or five short
descriptions and links every morning. The article on imaging naturally
caught my eye. I realize that New Atlantis is a strange site, but
Rosen's essay and thesis on the detrimental effect on us and our culture
by so many images was interesting. I totally disagree with her about the
detriment, but do agree that photography, printing press and video
technolgies allowing mass distribution of pictures have had a major,
profound effect on us all.

I read and taught for years about art, photography as an art, is it an
art, what is art, etc., etc., etc., blah blah blah. Then Schlain's book
hit me right between the eyes. I was aware of the impact of some photos
on people before that, but his thesis, based on right-brain/left brain
research, that cultures with linear alphabets denigrate the status of
women and that the growth of feminism begins with the advent of both
photgraphy and printing technologies to distribute them was mind shaking
to say the least. As he states he doesn't present a scientic testable
proof just a good court case for his theory. It is quite a book.
That sent me back to reread Marshal McCluan, Sonatg and a few others.
That is where I am at now.

Those of us who use photography for journalism, commercial advertising,
or even our fine art realize (hope) that our pictures can make a
difference to a viewer. The fact that our snapshots are what we grab
when the house is on fire attests to the importance we attach to even
our simplest images. And the fact that everyone here has spent thousand
of hours and dollars learning, creating, traveling, and crafting the
finest images we are capable of producing must mean that pictures mean
quite a lot to us all.

Way back in the fifties in college I remember the emotional and
visceral shock when first seeing photographs by Adams, Weston,
Cunningham and all of the rest ( anyone else old enough to remember when
Popular Photography was a first class magazine?) Gene Smith's pictures
in Life were also formative. So I have always been aware of the effects
of pictures, but never gave much thought to the broad social
consequences of ubiqitous pictures in our culture - or any culture for
that matter.

My other passion besides photography is funerary art. One of the things
that makes colonial gravestones so unique is the fact that the images on
them were carved at the height of the influence of the Puritan
Church.Your biblical quote of "no graven image" was a cornerstone of the
Puritan faith. The stones are equivalent to a member of the Taliban
painting a picture of Allah on his wall. I think the appeal of pictures
is primal.

Frank
  #5  
Old November 16th 05, 10:38 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,alt.religion.kibology
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"Frank Calidonna" wrote
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
I am not sure the 'New Atlantis' web site is one I would pick for a
discussion on propaganda and photography. The 'Old Atlantis'
was flaky enough.


I should sit on my hands, I know I should, but my lower mid half
an inch to the right brain just won't shut up.

Schlain's ... thesis, based on right-brain/left brain research,


Oops, we are on shaky ground before we start. I was under the
impression R/L brain has been pretty thoroughly discounted.
Isn't the new theory all about Hippocammi? Schlain needs to
get with it.

For something interesting on left/right conundrums, try:

http://www.americanscientist.org/tem.../assetid/29757

that cultures with linear alphabets denigrate the status of
women


Please, a non-linear alphabet, what is it?

Maybe Google knows:
http://www.brainmachines.com/body_bock_saga.html

Oh, we are in trouble, deep doo-doo.

and that the growth of feminism begins with the advent of both
photography and printing technologies to distribute them was mind shaking
to say the least.


A mind very well shaken.

As he states he doesn't present a scientific testable
proof


Some contact with reality.

just a good court case for his theory.


The jury is out. I vote hanging.

Didn't we do this in the 60's: take drugs, think up a wild hypothesis
and then go around preaching it was reality: "If you say a thing
is so then it makes it so." It sort of went along with the Socialist
Workers' Party - _they_ managed to make no contact with reality
without the use of chemicals. A mixture of the two lives on
in university education departments across the nation.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
Fstop timer - http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/index.htm
  #6  
Old November 17th 05, 01:37 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Off Topic, but of interest to this group - I hope

In article ,
Frank Calidonna wrote:

This being the most serious group of photographers (picture makers) that
I find on the web I thought some of you might be interested in an
article on The New Atlantis website:

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/10/rosen.htm

The author, Christine Rosen, contends that our culture is drowning in
images too easily made by anyone and that the net effect is detrimental
to us. Contrast that with Leonard Schlain's book "The Alphabet Vs. The
Goddess" which credits our immersion in images as being very positive
to the point of making feminism possible and you have quite a difference
of opinion. Stir in a lot of Sontag's bs opinions on photography (my
opinion) and the thoughts of others and I think we have an interesting
discussion. To bad there isn't a newsgroup for rec.photo.philosophy.

Anyway I just thought you might be interested what some think of our
imagemaking pursuits.

Frank Rome, NY


I just had a series of these thoughts concerning what imagery has become,
monday I was speaking with an interviewer for a local cable station that
came to interview me regarding my photography and the local gallery show
it will be included in. One of the things we discussed was that now
because of digital photography there is an expectation of instant turn
around of somethings, its also good and bad that the consuming public
can produce good images without a lot of work. But the main thing i
sense is a shorter attention span as a result of the bombardment of
imagery the interviewer agreed but stated he had discussed the same
subject with a colleague and the statement was that people in dealing
with imagery from all directions one would think it would make people
more alert.

I see or believe I do, a direct relation between the photo industry
changing and the changes for the worse in the economy in general..
but maybe I am wrong.

Thanks for the link,...and topic for consideration.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
  #7  
Old November 17th 05, 04:51 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
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Posts: n/a
Default Off Topic, but of interest to this group - I hope

"Frank Calidonna" wrote in message
...
This being the most serious group of photographers (picture makers) that I
find on the web I thought some of you might be interested in an article on
The New Atlantis website:

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/10/rosen.htm

The author, Christine Rosen, contends that our culture is drowning in
images too easily made by anyone and that the net effect is detrimental to
us. Contrast that with Leonard Schlain's book "The Alphabet Vs. The
Goddess" which credits our immersion in images as being very positive to
the point of making feminism possible and you have quite a difference of
opinion. Stir in a lot of Sontag's bs opinions on photography (my opinion)
and the thoughts of others and I think we have an interesting discussion.
To bad there isn't a newsgroup for rec.photo.philosophy.

Anyway I just thought you might be interested what some think of our
imagemaking pursuits.


It reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut, who said that mass media has dulled us to
the talent in our midst by only giving value to highly polished "acts". So
when we go out with friends and one of them cuts loose with some amazing
dance moves, instead of saying, wow, you can really dance, we say, man, were
you ever drunk last night!

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com


  #8  
Old November 17th 05, 09:51 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,alt.religion.kibology
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Posts: n/a
Default Off Topic, but of interest to this group - I hope

In article et,
"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:

http://www.americanscientist.org/tem.../assetid/29757


How does AmericanScientist get MouseOver sounds for the buttons at the
top of the browser window?

--
Robert Caponi **
T.W.I.D.N. **
http://home.earthlink.net/~tagutcow/
'This Day' solo piano sheet music available for $3.oo
http://home.earthlink.net/~tagutcow/music.html
  #9  
Old November 17th 05, 11:36 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,alt.religion.kibology
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Posts: n/a
Default Off Topic, but of interest to this group - I hope

In article
,
(Tyrone Nation) wrote:

In article et,
"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:

http://www.americanscientist.org/tem.../assetid/29757

How does AmericanScientist get MouseOver sounds for the buttons at the
top of the browser window?


They probably use a java script which exists in the CSS file the page
links to.
--
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

www.gregblankphoto(dot)com
  #10  
Old November 17th 05, 11:48 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom,alt.religion.kibology
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Posts: n/a
Default Off Topic, but of interest to this group - I hope

"Gregory Blank" wrote

How does AmericanScientist get MouseOver sounds for the buttons at the
top of the browser window?


They probably use a java script which exists in the CSS file the page
links to.


Which would explain why it didn't happen on my computer.

--oTTo--


 




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