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Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 16th 04, 03:26 PM
Peter De Smidt
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Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)

Michael Scarpitti wrote:



Kodak Polymax was designed to work with T-Max film. Polycontrast is
for conventional film. See? There's something I knew and you didn't.

Ilford papers are not designed for T-Max films to the best of my
knowledge. Why would they be?

Get your info straight before posteing here, idiot.


So you obviously never printed with Ilford RC paper. And just FYI, Kodak
won't be selling Polymax II in the US anymore. Do you know the curve
shape of the replacement? Given your response, I guess not. It,
Polycontrast IV, has less highlight contrast than Polymax II or
Polycontrast III. What was that you said? Oh yeah, "Get your info
straight before posteing (nice spelling, btw.) here, idiot."

-Peter
  #22  
Old July 16th 04, 05:54 PM
Peter De Smidt
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Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)

Michael Scarpitti wrote:
Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote in message ...

I regularly use TMY developed in Xtol in 35mm, 120mm, 4x5 and 8x10 in
outdoor work. It works very well. Given how Mikey exposes and develops
film, I'm not surprised that it doesn't work for him. In particular, TMY
is more sensitive to underexposure and/or overdevelopment than most
other non-Tmax films. An exception would be Fuji Acros.

-Peter

Michael Scarpitti wrote:




Bull****. It's NOT suitable for outdoor work. It sucks because of the
CURVE SHAPE. S-shaped curves are better for outdoor work. TMY has a
U-shaped curve. moron.


Then I guess the print in front of me, which was taken with TMY
outdoors, must be magic.

In any case thank you for continually acting like an ass. That way
newbies won't have illusions regarding your knowledge or character for
very long.

Peter

P.S. Btw., my densitometer tells me that TMY has a very straight-line
"curve" in Xtol. But that contradicts Mikey, and so I better get it checked.





'Straight' isn't 'S'-shaped, now is it?


Nor is it 'u' shaped as you said, now is it?
  #23  
Old July 16th 04, 05:55 PM
Peter De Smidt
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Posts: n/a
Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)

Michael Scarpitti wrote:

Photography is not and cannot be art.


That's a good comment to keep in mind for anyone who thinks that it'd be
a good idea to follow your advice.
  #24  
Old July 16th 04, 06:01 PM
Peter De Smidt
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Posts: n/a
Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)

Michael Scarpitti wrote:

Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote in message ...

Michael Scarpitti wrote:



Probably because you don't understand that it messes up VC paper by
lowering the contrast in the areas where the stain is heaviest
(highlights). If you use a staining developer, use GRADED paper only.


Duh. I just said that PMK lowers highlight contrast with vc paper. The
stain acts much like a green filter. About using PMK with VC paper, you
must know much more about it than Gordon Hutchings, who developed PMK,
wrote a carefully detailed book about it, and makes better prints than
Mikey can even dream of.



I'd sure like to see his 35mm street work. You make me laugh.



I've seen some of Mikeys 35mm "Zoo", oops, I mean "street" work. What crap!


Mikey, maybe you should try pouring syrup on
that polar bear.



Oh, so a man jumping over a puddle represents a more important
historical event? On what grounds is that true? The lighting in HCB's
puddle-jumper is not even interesting.



When did I ever say that HCB "puddle-jumper" is a photograph that I
admire? I don't particularly like it, but in any case it's worlds
better than anything that Mikey has shown.

Delta films have S-shaped curves. Ilford has not had to change their
papers like Kodak had to, because the Delta films do not suffer from
the problems that T-Max films do. Get your facts straight.

You've clearly never used Ilford RC paper. Have you run sensitometric
tests with it? I have, and you're FOS, as usual.

-Peter
  #25  
Old July 16th 04, 08:00 PM
Michael Scarpitti
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)

Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote in message ...
Michael Scarpitti wrote:



Kodak Polymax was designed to work with T-Max film. Polycontrast is
for conventional film. See? There's something I knew and you didn't.

Ilford papers are not designed for T-Max films to the best of my
knowledge. Why would they be?

Get your info straight before posteing here, idiot.


So you obviously never printed with Ilford RC paper.


I do, all the time. It looks fine with conventional films such as
Neopan and with Delta 400. What evidence do you have that Ilford would
care about how their paper matches up with Kodak films?

And just FYI, Kodak
won't be selling Polymax II in the US anymore. Do you know the curve
shape of the replacement? Given your response, I guess not. It,
Polycontrast IV, has less highlight contrast than Polymax II or
Polycontrast III. What was that you said? Oh yeah, "Get your info
straight before posteing (nice spelling, btw.) here, idiot."


As far as Kodak is concerned, I wish them well. They'll need all the
help they can get.


-Peter

  #26  
Old July 16th 04, 08:36 PM
Peter De Smidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)



So you obviously never printed with Ilford RC paper.



I do, all the time. It looks fine with conventional films such as
Neopan and with Delta 400. What evidence do you have that Ilford would
care about how their paper matches up with Kodak films?


I never said that Ilford would care about their paper matching up with
Kodak films, nor did I say that one couldn't get nice results with
Ilford RC. What I said was the Ilford RC has a long toe. In other words
it has lowered highlight contrast. Since that's the case, one *might*
want to use a film with a fairly straight "curve", depending on the
highlight rendition that one wants. You really don't care at all about
getting what other people say correct, do you? You commit the Strawman
fallacy, time, after time, after time...

-Peter
  #27  
Old July 16th 04, 08:36 PM
Peter De Smidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)



So you obviously never printed with Ilford RC paper.



I do, all the time. It looks fine with conventional films such as
Neopan and with Delta 400. What evidence do you have that Ilford would
care about how their paper matches up with Kodak films?


I never said that Ilford would care about their paper matching up with
Kodak films, nor did I say that one couldn't get nice results with
Ilford RC. What I said was the Ilford RC has a long toe. In other words
it has lowered highlight contrast. Since that's the case, one *might*
want to use a film with a fairly straight "curve", depending on the
highlight rendition that one wants. You really don't care at all about
getting what other people say correct, do you? You commit the Strawman
fallacy, time, after time, after time...

-Peter
  #28  
Old July 16th 04, 11:41 PM
Michael Scarpitti
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)

Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote in message ...
Michael Scarpitti wrote:
Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote in message ...

I regularly use TMY developed in Xtol in 35mm, 120mm, 4x5 and 8x10 in
outdoor work. It works very well. Given how Mikey exposes and develops
film, I'm not surprised that it doesn't work for him. In particular, TMY
is more sensitive to underexposure and/or overdevelopment than most
other non-Tmax films. An exception would be Fuji Acros.

-Peter

Michael Scarpitti wrote:



Bull****. It's NOT suitable for outdoor work. It sucks because of the
CURVE SHAPE. S-shaped curves are better for outdoor work. TMY has a
U-shaped curve. moron.

Then I guess the print in front of me, which was taken with TMY
outdoors, must be magic.

In any case thank you for continually acting like an ass. That way
newbies won't have illusions regarding your knowledge or character for
very long.

Peter

P.S. Btw., my densitometer tells me that TMY has a very straight-line
"curve" in Xtol. But that contradicts Mikey, and so I better get it checked.





'Straight' isn't 'S'-shaped, now is it?


Nor is it 'u' shaped as you said, now is it?


It depends on the developer/dilution whether it's straight or slightly
U-shaped. The point is, that it's not 'S'-shaped.
  #29  
Old July 16th 04, 11:45 PM
Michael Scarpitti
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)

Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote in message ...
Michael Scarpitti wrote:

Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote in message ...

Michael Scarpitti wrote:



Probably because you don't understand that it messes up VC paper by
lowering the contrast in the areas where the stain is heaviest
(highlights). If you use a staining developer, use GRADED paper only.


Duh. I just said that PMK lowers highlight contrast with vc paper. The
stain acts much like a green filter. About using PMK with VC paper, you
must know much more about it than Gordon Hutchings, who developed PMK,
wrote a carefully detailed book about it, and makes better prints than
Mikey can even dream of.



I'd sure like to see his 35mm street work. You make me laugh.



I've seen some of Mikeys 35mm "Zoo", oops, I mean "street" work. What crap!


Mikey, maybe you should try pouring syrup on
that polar bear.



Oh, so a man jumping over a puddle represents a more important
historical event? On what grounds is that true? The lighting in HCB's
puddle-jumper is not even interesting.



When did I ever say that HCB "puddle-jumper" is a photograph that I
admire? I don't particularly like it, but in any case it's worlds
better than anything that Mikey has shown.


You wish. It's nothing special at all.


Delta films have S-shaped curves. Ilford has not had to change their
papers like Kodak had to, because the Delta films do not suffer from
the problems that T-Max films do. Get your facts straight.

You've clearly never used Ilford RC paper.


Oh, so you have been in my darkroom? What are all those packages of MG
IV then?

Have you run sensitometric
tests with it? I have, and you're FOS, as usual.


No, I make prints, dumbass, I don't run tests. WHY THE **** would
Ilford adapt their paper to T-Max? Ilford Delta films have quite a
different curve shape from T-Max films. You're impossibly dense. Go
jump out of a thirty-story building and do us all a favor.


-Peter

  #30  
Old July 16th 04, 11:46 PM
Michael Scarpitti
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Toe speed of TMAX 400 (was fridge and heat problems)

Peter De Smidt pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net* wrote in message ...
Michael Scarpitti wrote:

Photography is not and cannot be art.


That's a good comment to keep in mind for anyone who thinks that it'd be
a good idea to follow your advice.


Of course, if you're so deluded to think that photography is 'fine
art' go right ahead. I'll order the Thorazine right away...
 




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