|GG| Dpreview wants to cater to the simple people

RichA wrote:
Boo hoo hoo! The interfaces on the DSLRs and current P&S's confuse
them. They long for the simplicity of their iphones. Figures an
Apple fan would be crying about not understanding technology.

http://blog.dpreview.com/editorial/2...ase-for-a.html

Of course everyone wants their camera to have an intuitive interface but
getting 100s of options to fit is hard. Things do improve though. Moving
up from a D70 to D200 I noticed a significant improvement in the menu
system and the body has more knobs, dials & buttons. For menu diving,
the D200 has a 'recent settings' menu so it's easy to find the stuff you
were twiddling and the most used goes to the top of that list. The D700
has yet another nice level of improvement for the menu & controls and
instead of recent settings it has 'my menu' where you have to
specifically add items but then you can put the one you want on the top
and using something odd once doesn't automatically clutter things up
like the D200.

Children have no problem grabbing a new camera or cell phone and
negotiating the buttons, even with an advanced DSLR. They are fairly
standardized.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
...


Children have no problem grabbing a new camera or cell phone and
negotiating the buttons, even with an advanced DSLR. They are fairly
standardized.

Children who can negotiate the menus and buttons in an advanced DSLR and
produce technically correct shots are destined for Mensa, Nobel awards,
Fulbright scholarships and even more.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:29:40 -0800, Paul Furman
wrote:

RichA wrote:
Boo hoo hoo! The interfaces on the DSLRs and current P&S's confuse
them. They long for the simplicity of their iphones. Figures an
Apple fan would be crying about not understanding technology.

http://blog.dpreview.com/editorial/2...ase-for-a.html

Of course everyone wants their camera to have an intuitive interface but
getting 100s of options to fit is hard. Things do improve though. Moving
up from a D70 to D200 I noticed a significant improvement in the menu
system and the body has more knobs, dials & buttons. For menu diving,
the D200 has a 'recent settings' menu so it's easy to find the stuff you
were twiddling and the most used goes to the top of that list. The D700
has yet another nice level of improvement for the menu & controls and
instead of recent settings it has 'my menu' where you have to
specifically add items but then you can put the one you want on the top
and using something odd once doesn't automatically clutter things up
like the D200.

Children have no problem grabbing a new camera or cell phone and
negotiating the buttons, even with an advanced DSLR. They are fairly
standardized.

Despite the fact that their parents give them different names. :-)
--
John

Charles wrote:
"Paul Furman" wrote in message
...


Children have no problem grabbing a new camera or cell phone and
negotiating the buttons, even with an advanced DSLR. They are fairly
standardized.

Children who can negotiate the menus and buttons in an advanced DSLR
and produce technically correct shots are destined for Mensa, Nobel
awards, Fulbright scholarships and even more.

The future is bright, then!

David

David J Taylor added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

Children have no problem grabbing a new camera or cell phone
and negotiating the buttons, even with an advanced DSLR.
They are fairly standardized.

Children who can negotiate the menus and buttons in an
advanced DSLR and produce technically correct shots are
destined for Mensa, Nobel awards, Fulbright scholarships and
even more.

The future is bright, then!

You know, David, I don't think it is the complexity of an advanced
camera's controls at all. It is the really poor way that the user's
manual is written. I use as an example the one for my first DSLR, a
Canon Rebel XT. It is quite clear that the manual was written not
by a technical writer or a user but by just a writer given a set of
specs for the camera and how it's controls are supposed to work.
Then, according to the inside cover, the book was written in
Japanese and translated to English. Just awful! Inconsequential
things got a lot of space while some truly important but difficult
features got so little space I missed them for some time.

Still, your point is very well taken! Cheers!

--
HP, aka Jerry

"How do you have patience for people who claim they love America,
but clearly can't stand Americans? – Sydney Ellen Wade to President
Andrew Shepherd in the movie "The American President

HEMI-Powered wrote:
[]
You know, David, I don't think it is the complexity of an advanced
camera's controls at all. It is the really poor way that the user's
manual is written. I use as an example the one for my first DSLR, a
Canon Rebel XT. It is quite clear that the manual was written not
by a technical writer or a user but by just a writer given a set of
specs for the camera and how it's controls are supposed to work.
Then, according to the inside cover, the book was written in
Japanese and translated to English. Just awful! Inconsequential
things got a lot of space while some truly important but difficult
features got so little space I missed them for some time.

Still, your point is very well taken! Cheers!

Jerry,

I would hope that the larger manufacturers could afford a
camera-proficient English speaker at least to polish the manual, if not to
write it in the first place. Oh, well!

There are some quite good 3rd party books around about the various
cameras - have you looked at those? Poor manuals provide some income for
the 3rd party author, so a benefit to someone!

Cheers,
David

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:19:47 GMT, "David J Taylor"
wrote in
:

HEMI-Powered wrote:
[]
You know, David, I don't think it is the complexity of an advanced
camera's controls at all. It is the really poor way that the user's
manual is written. I use as an example the one for my first DSLR, a
Canon Rebel XT. It is quite clear that the manual was written not
by a technical writer or a user but by just a writer given a set of
specs for the camera and how it's controls are supposed to work.
Then, according to the inside cover, the book was written in
Japanese and translated to English. Just awful! Inconsequential
things got a lot of space while some truly important but difficult
features got so little space I missed them for some time.

Still, your point is very well taken! Cheers!

I would hope that the larger manufacturers could afford a
camera-proficient English speaker at least to polish the manual, if not to
write it in the first place. Oh, well!

There are some quite good 3rd party books around about the various
cameras - have you looked at those? Poor manuals provide some income for
the 3rd party author, so a benefit to someone!

That's true of many software packages as well -- one by Adobe comes to
mind.
--
Best regards,
John Navas
[PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/]

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:42:10 -0800, John Navas
wrote:

There are some quite good 3rd party books around about the various
cameras - have you looked at those? Poor manuals provide some income for
the 3rd party author, so a benefit to someone!

That's true of many software packages as well -- one by Adobe comes to
mind.

I recently cleaned out a back closet and threw away the manuals for
some long-discarded software programs. There was a time that word
processing, spreadsheet, and creative programs came with manuals that
were thick as a book and provided all the information needed to use
the program. Now you need to add a minimum of $40 to buy a book from
a bookstore on how to use the program.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

David J Taylor added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

HEMI-Powered wrote:
[]
You know, David, I don't think it is the complexity of an
advanced camera's controls at all. It is the really poor way
that the user's manual is written. I use as an example the
one for my first DSLR, a Canon Rebel XT. It is quite clear
that the manual was written not by a technical writer or a
user but by just a writer given a set of specs for the camera
and how it's controls are supposed to work. Then, according
to the inside cover, the book was written in Japanese and
translated to English. Just awful! Inconsequential things got
a lot of space while some truly important but difficult
features got so little space I missed them for some time.

I would hope that the larger manufacturers could afford a
camera-proficient English speaker at least to polish the
manual, if not to write it in the first place. Oh, well!

I would think that also, David, but it hasn't been my experience.
Digital cameras are one example, germane here. Another are cell
phones and DVRs, both with manuals so poorly written as to be
totally arcane and virtually useless.

To paraphrase Will Rogers, all I knew initially about my Rebel XT
was from the manual, and it was REALLY bad! It looked exactly
like I described it - as if it had been written from specs by a
person who isn't even a photographer, much less one who is
familiar with the XT. And, it had the lack of polish of a
document written in Japanese that had been translated into
English. And, we all know that the greatest challenge for
translators is in technical areas!

There are some quite good 3rd party books around about the
various cameras - have you looked at those? Poor manuals
provide some income for the 3rd party author, so a benefit to
someone!

Sure. I looked back when I bought the XT and looked more recently
for my XSi. What I found were written for the mainstream and not
for the knotty problems. I looked just recently at a new one for
the XSi hoping to get some help with fill flash. Know how much
was in this 1/2" thick book? About one page. Useless to me. Now,
if I had had this book back when, it likely would have greatly
eased my learning curve.

And, yes, I went back to the camera store a number of times and
talked to the guy I bought it from, who was quite knowledgeable.
But, shooting test shots in a well-lit store ain't at all like
flash pictures of cars in a dark museum or cars in bright
sunlight, is it? But, I am not complaining about the store, only
about the sad state of the manual.

The new manual is just an update. I did read it cover-to-cover to
familiarize myself with what had changed and was astounded and
dismayed to learn that they had NOT really improved the overall
usefulness of it. The things I am confused about that I didn't
learn by experience I'm still confused about.

And, being that I was the one to get my wife's Canon PowerShot
1100 set up and show her how to use it to best advantage, I can
tell you that it's manual is superior to my Rebel (!) probably
because they believed they were writing for newbies and not
people they thought are - or should be - experienced, but it is
still a tough read!

Cheers!

--
HP, aka Jerry

"How do you have patience for people who claim they love America,
but clearly can't stand Americans? – Sydney Ellen Wade to
President Andrew Shepherd in the movie "The American President

John Navas added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

I would hope that the larger manufacturers could afford a
camera-proficient English speaker at least to polish the
manual, if not to write it in the first place. Oh, well!

There are some quite good 3rd party books around about the
various cameras - have you looked at those? Poor manuals
provide some income for the 3rd party author, so a benefit to
someone!

That's true of many software packages as well -- one by Adobe
comes to mind.

I'm sure that a big reason why SW developers no longer provide a
manual is that their old ones were so bad that nobody read them and
making good ones that people would actually use was too expensive.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"How do you have patience for people who claim they love America,
but clearly can't stand Americans? – Sydney Ellen Wade to President
Andrew Shepherd in the movie "The American President