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Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint



 
 
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  #161  
Old September 12th 17, 02:56 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
Andre G. Isaak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

In article ,
Chaya Eve wrote:

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 02:28:20 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"
wrote:

If you find a font in fonts folder which doesn't show up in your
applications, try renaming the file. That should fix it.


This may be a crazy idea, but if we rename the DIN font to "Bahnschrift" on
the Mac, will the Mac then be able to use the DIN font in place of the
Bahnschrift font if the Mac edits a PowerPoint that came from Windows that
had the Windows Bahnschrift font embedded in it?


No.

The font's filename has nothing to do with the font's internal name, and
even were you to change the internal name you'd likely run into problems
since the two fonts will likely have different metrics and different
character sets.

Andre

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.
  #162  
Old September 12th 17, 04:11 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:56:56 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"
wrote:

No.

The font's filename has nothing to do with the font's internal name, and
even were you to change the internal name you'd likely run into problems
since the two fonts will likely have different metrics and different
character sets.


I was afraid of that. Thanks.

Basically, it's great that the Mac comes with DIN if we stay on the Mac.
And it's great that Windows comes with Bahnschrift, if we stay on Windows.
But 'ner the twain shall meet.

Hence, the only logical choice for cross-platform editing compatibility is
either a (maybe free) Highway Gothic or a definitely free Roadgeek font
where the font is embedded into the document from Windows and where the Mac
user downloads the font and then deletes it when done.
  #163  
Old September 12th 17, 09:18 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
David Empson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

Andre G. Isaak wrote:

In article ,
(David Empson) wrote:

Andre G. Isaak wrote:

In article ,
Your Name wrote:

On 2017-09-12 00:31:19 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:20:39 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"

wrote:

I pointed out already that DIN *is* included with Macs.

Thanks for clarifying that a DIN font is included native with the
Mac. You're the only Mac expert here who knew that. Even the
Windows experts didn't know that a DIN 1451 compatible font exists
on Windows (named Barnshrift) until you mentioned the DIN
compatible font on the Mac.

Since the name may make all the difference in compatibility, do you
know the name of that DIN 1451 compatible font on the Mac?

There is no "DIN" font installed by default on the Mac. You can
download it and it may be installed by some third-party applications.

There are no doubt lots of fonts that are close enough to be lookalikes.

I just double checked. DIN is definitely installed in /Library/Fonts.

I verified this against the Sierra and Yosemite installers. It is
present in both.


That is correct, but the font cannot be selected by the user in recent
OS versions: DIN Alternate Bold and DIN Condensed Bold don't show up in
Font Book, nor in font selection menus in application. They also don't
show up if attempting to install the same files as a user font.


This is a known bug. Simply rename the font files and they will work.


Thanks for clarifying it for me. Based on details in your other post, it
would be an easy bug for Apple to fix. Low priority, I suppose.

This is consisent with those fonts being retained for use in existing
documents when referenced by name, but not being available for use in
new documents, as described in the Sierra support document for a long
list of other fonts.


Compatibility fonts are stored in /Library/Application
Support/Apple/Fonts/ whereas DIN is installed in /Library/Fonts/


Good to know, thanks.

It still makes this font difficult to use for the application in
question, because the font will appear to be unavailable on the majority
of Macs unless someone jumps through hoops to install a renamed copy.

--
David Empson

  #164  
Old September 13th 17, 06:37 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.apps,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit, and,

Just saw this elesewhere so I'm reposting Alan Browne's helpful information
verbatim below so that it's available in this thread.

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 14:59:39 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

1. Close all MS Office programs on the Mac.
2. Install the desired font as per custom on the Mac.
3. CLEAR THE MS FONT CACHE FILE BY DELETING IT:

/Users/username/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Office 2008/
Proofing Tools Preferences/Office Font Cache (11)
(or similar). This applies for later versions of Office.
ie: I did the above with Office 2016 - it still uses files from the 2008
cache if they are there...

Re-open PowerPoint. The desired font that you downloaded (ie:
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005 )
Is available and works perfectly well.

Of course MS are ape-heads and don't refresh the font list for some
idiotic, only MS knows, reason.
  #165  
Old September 13th 17, 07:52 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
Your Name[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 102
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On 2017-09-12 20:18:54 +0000, David Empson said:
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
In article ,
(David Empson) wrote:
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
In article ,
Your Name wrote:
On 2017-09-12 00:31:19 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:20:39 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"

wrote:

I pointed out already that DIN *is* included with Macs.

Thanks for clarifying that a DIN font is included native with the
Mac. You're the only Mac expert here who knew that. Even the
Windows experts didn't know that a DIN 1451 compatible font exists
on Windows (named Barnshrift) until you mentioned the DIN
compatible font on the Mac.

Since the name may make all the difference in compatibility, do you
know the name of that DIN 1451 compatible font on the Mac?

There is no "DIN" font installed by default on the Mac. You can
download it and it may be installed by some third-party applications.

There are no doubt lots of fonts that are close enough to be lookalikes.

I just double checked. DIN is definitely installed in /Library/Fonts.

I verified this against the Sierra and Yosemite installers. It is
present in both.

That is correct, but the font cannot be selected by the user in recent
OS versions: DIN Alternate Bold and DIN Condensed Bold don't show up in
Font Book, nor in font selection menus in application. They also don't
show up if attempting to install the same files as a user font.


This is a known bug. Simply rename the font files and they will work.


Thanks for clarifying it for me. Based on details in your other post, it
would be an easy bug for Apple to fix. Low priority, I suppose.

This is consisent with those fonts being retained for use in existing
documents when referenced by name, but not being available for use in
new documents, as described in the Sierra support document for a long
list of other fonts.


Compatibility fonts are stored in /Library/Application
Support/Apple/Fonts/ whereas DIN is installed in /Library/Fonts/


Good to know, thanks.

It still makes this font difficult to use for the application in
question, because the font will appear to be unavailable on the majority
of Macs unless someone jumps through hoops to install a renamed copy.


It also seems a bit peculiar that the DIN fonts (and a few others) *do*
appear in Microsoft Office apps^ and that they are no longer listed by
Apple as being a standard Mac OS X font in Sierra.

That would *seem* to indicate that the font is actually installed by
Microsoft Office and is only meant to be used within those apps.
Renaming it may be the real bug that gets around that "lock out" and
causes the fonts to appear for use in other apps, possibly against the
licencing agreement terms.




^ I know Micorosft Office uses its own caching system, so there are complaints
about the reverse occuring - sometimes fonts won't appear in Office apps,
but do appear in all other Mac apps.



  #166  
Old September 13th 17, 10:38 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
Andre G. Isaak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

In article ,
Your Name wrote:

On 2017-09-12 20:18:54 +0000, David Empson said:
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
In article ,
(David Empson) wrote:
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
In article ,
Your Name wrote:
On 2017-09-12 00:31:19 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:20:39 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"

wrote:

I pointed out already that DIN *is* included with Macs.

Thanks for clarifying that a DIN font is included native with the
Mac. You're the only Mac expert here who knew that. Even the
Windows experts didn't know that a DIN 1451 compatible font exists
on Windows (named Barnshrift) until you mentioned the DIN
compatible font on the Mac.

Since the name may make all the difference in compatibility, do you
know the name of that DIN 1451 compatible font on the Mac?

There is no "DIN" font installed by default on the Mac. You can
download it and it may be installed by some third-party applications.

There are no doubt lots of fonts that are close enough to be lookalikes.

I just double checked. DIN is definitely installed in /Library/Fonts.

I verified this against the Sierra and Yosemite installers. It is
present in both.

That is correct, but the font cannot be selected by the user in recent
OS versions: DIN Alternate Bold and DIN Condensed Bold don't show up in
Font Book, nor in font selection menus in application. They also don't
show up if attempting to install the same files as a user font.

This is a known bug. Simply rename the font files and they will work.


Thanks for clarifying it for me. Based on details in your other post, it
would be an easy bug for Apple to fix. Low priority, I suppose.

This is consisent with those fonts being retained for use in existing
documents when referenced by name, but not being available for use in
new documents, as described in the Sierra support document for a long
list of other fonts.

Compatibility fonts are stored in /Library/Application
Support/Apple/Fonts/ whereas DIN is installed in /Library/Fonts/


Good to know, thanks.

It still makes this font difficult to use for the application in
question, because the font will appear to be unavailable on the majority
of Macs unless someone jumps through hoops to install a renamed copy.


It also seems a bit peculiar that the DIN fonts (and a few others) *do*
appear in Microsoft Office apps^ and that they are no longer listed by
Apple as being a standard Mac OS X font in Sierra.


That would *seem* to indicate that the font is actually installed by
Microsoft Office and is only meant to be used within those apps.


Microsoft Office keeps its private fonts within folders inside the
individual application bundles (and DIN isn't included there), and I've
verified that the font *is* installed by the Sierra installer (both by
looking in the installer itself and by checking various VMs I have lying
around which don't have office installed). In addition, the version
number of the font corresponds to apple numbering schemes.

Unlike Pages, Textedit, etc., Office doesn't rely on CoreText to create
its font menus, but rather uses its own routines. I suspect that's why
the font shows up in Office applications.

Andre

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.
  #167  
Old September 13th 17, 08:02 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:18:54 +1200, David Empson
wrote:

Good to know, thanks.


Everything in this thread is good to know, so it's wonderful that together,
the Mac and Windows experts unraveled the unintuitive details to a succinct
summary.

It still makes this font difficult to use for the application in
question, because the font will appear to be unavailable on the majority
of Macs unless someone jumps through hoops to install a renamed copy.


The Graphics Arts teacher wrote the following, which seems to indicate that
the fonts on the Mac won't be a problem for her when printing the signs!

"I can easily download the necessary typefaces into our Adobe
applications. That is not a problem. As soon as the metal for the signage
is brought in we can get started. As for doing a project involving signage,
we already have something lined up in regards to signage for the year.
Thank you for your consideration on this.

I have been building signs professionally for a long time and feel
confident that you will be happy with our end result for your request. The
vinyl to build your signs is inexpensive. It should only cost around 5$
per sign."

From that, I suspect two things:
* The teacher isn't going to use MS Office but an Adobe product instead.
* That Adobe product on the Mac can handle whatever road fonts we need.
  #168  
Old September 13th 17, 08:06 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

In article , Chaya Eve
wrote:

From that, I suspect two things:
* The teacher isn't going to use MS Office but an Adobe product instead.


no surprise there. office is the wrong tool. most likely she will be
using adobe illustrator.

* That Adobe product on the Mac can handle whatever road fonts we need.


of course it can.
  #169  
Old September 13th 17, 11:01 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
Your Name[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 102
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On 2017-09-13 09:38:11 +0000, Andre G. Isaak said:

In article ,
Your Name wrote:

On 2017-09-12 20:18:54 +0000, David Empson said:
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
In article ,
(David Empson) wrote:
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
In article ,
Your Name wrote:
On 2017-09-12 00:31:19 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:20:39 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"

wrote:

I pointed out already that DIN *is* included with Macs.

Thanks for clarifying that a DIN font is included native with the
Mac. You're the only Mac expert here who knew that. Even the
Windows experts didn't know that a DIN 1451 compatible font exists
on Windows (named Barnshrift) until you mentioned the DIN
compatible font on the Mac.

Since the name may make all the difference in compatibility, do you
know the name of that DIN 1451 compatible font on the Mac?

There is no "DIN" font installed by default on the Mac. You can
download it and it may be installed by some third-party applications.

There are no doubt lots of fonts that are close enough to be lookalikes.

I just double checked. DIN is definitely installed in /Library/Fonts.

I verified this against the Sierra and Yosemite installers. It is
present in both.

That is correct, but the font cannot be selected by the user in recent
OS versions: DIN Alternate Bold and DIN Condensed Bold don't show up in
Font Book, nor in font selection menus in application. They also don't
show up if attempting to install the same files as a user font.

This is a known bug. Simply rename the font files and they will work.

Thanks for clarifying it for me. Based on details in your other post, it
would be an easy bug for Apple to fix. Low priority, I suppose.

This is consisent with those fonts being retained for use in existing
documents when referenced by name, but not being available for use in
new documents, as described in the Sierra support document for a long
list of other fonts.

Compatibility fonts are stored in /Library/Application
Support/Apple/Fonts/ whereas DIN is installed in /Library/Fonts/

Good to know, thanks.

It still makes this font difficult to use for the application in
question, because the font will appear to be unavailable on the majority
of Macs unless someone jumps through hoops to install a renamed copy.


It also seems a bit peculiar that the DIN fonts (and a few others) *do*
appear in Microsoft Office apps^ and that they are no longer listed by
Apple as being a standard Mac OS X font in Sierra.

That would *seem* to indicate that the font is actually installed by
Microsoft Office and is only meant to be used within those apps.


Microsoft Office keeps its private fonts within folders inside the
individual application bundles (and DIN isn't included there), and I've
verified that the font *is* installed by the Sierra installer (both by
looking in the installer itself and by checking various VMs I have lying
around which don't have office installed). In addition, the version
number of the font corresponds to apple numbering schemes.

Unlike Pages, Textedit, etc., Office doesn't rely on CoreText to create
its font menus, but rather uses its own routines. I suspect that's why
the font shows up in Office applications.


I did a very quick search and didn't turn up anything saying it was a
known bug, let alone any mention of why or how to fix it in Sierra.
There were a few people complaining about particular fonts in older
verions of Mac OS X, where apparently a fix can be to delete certain
caches and plist file, and then repair permissions and reboot ... of
course Repair Permissions is no longer an option in Sierra.

It's very weird. :-\

  #170  
Old September 13th 17, 11:42 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.comp.os.windows-10,rec.photo.digital
Andre G. Isaak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

In article ,
Your Name wrote:

On 2017-09-13 09:38:11 +0000, Andre G. Isaak said:

In article ,
Your Name wrote:

On 2017-09-12 20:18:54 +0000, David Empson said:
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
In article ,
(David Empson) wrote:
Andre G. Isaak wrote:
In article ,
Your Name wrote:
On 2017-09-12 00:31:19 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:20:39 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"

wrote:

I pointed out already that DIN *is* included with Macs.

Thanks for clarifying that a DIN font is included native with the
Mac. You're the only Mac expert here who knew that. Even the
Windows experts didn't know that a DIN 1451 compatible font exists
on Windows (named Barnshrift) until you mentioned the DIN
compatible font on the Mac.

Since the name may make all the difference in compatibility, do you
know the name of that DIN 1451 compatible font on the Mac?

There is no "DIN" font installed by default on the Mac. You can
download it and it may be installed by some third-party applications.

There are no doubt lots of fonts that are close enough to be
lookalikes.

I just double checked. DIN is definitely installed in /Library/Fonts.

I verified this against the Sierra and Yosemite installers. It is
present in both.

That is correct, but the font cannot be selected by the user in recent
OS versions: DIN Alternate Bold and DIN Condensed Bold don't show up in
Font Book, nor in font selection menus in application. They also don't
show up if attempting to install the same files as a user font.

This is a known bug. Simply rename the font files and they will work.

Thanks for clarifying it for me. Based on details in your other post, it
would be an easy bug for Apple to fix. Low priority, I suppose.

This is consisent with those fonts being retained for use in existing
documents when referenced by name, but not being available for use in
new documents, as described in the Sierra support document for a long
list of other fonts.

Compatibility fonts are stored in /Library/Application
Support/Apple/Fonts/ whereas DIN is installed in /Library/Fonts/

Good to know, thanks.

It still makes this font difficult to use for the application in
question, because the font will appear to be unavailable on the majority
of Macs unless someone jumps through hoops to install a renamed copy.

It also seems a bit peculiar that the DIN fonts (and a few others) *do*
appear in Microsoft Office apps^ and that they are no longer listed by
Apple as being a standard Mac OS X font in Sierra.

That would *seem* to indicate that the font is actually installed by
Microsoft Office and is only meant to be used within those apps.


Microsoft Office keeps its private fonts within folders inside the
individual application bundles (and DIN isn't included there), and I've
verified that the font *is* installed by the Sierra installer (both by
looking in the installer itself and by checking various VMs I have lying
around which don't have office installed). In addition, the version
number of the font corresponds to apple numbering schemes.

Unlike Pages, Textedit, etc., Office doesn't rely on CoreText to create
its font menus, but rather uses its own routines. I suspect that's why
the font shows up in Office applications.


I did a very quick search and didn't turn up anything saying it was a
known bug, let alone any mention of why or how to fix it in Sierra.
There were a few people complaining about particular fonts in older
verions of Mac OS X, where apparently a fix can be to delete certain
caches and plist file, and then repair permissions and reboot ... of
course Repair Permissions is no longer an option in Sierra.

It's very weird. :-\


It is discussed he

http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html

This document, however, predates the problem with DIN. Search that page
for 'Athelas' for a description of the problem. It seems to affect
different fonts with each new release.

Andre

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.
 




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