Portland Gestapo Ask Homeowners, Businesses To Register Surveillance Cameras

In article 2017050207212565483-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

Wait until the California readers tell us their fine amount.

21453(a) VC; running a Red light = $495
22450 VC; Rolling through a stop sign = $238

Yikes!

Kinda grabs your attention doesn't it?

the base fine is $100.

it's all of the extra stuff where it adds up:
http://cironline.org/reports/califor...nes-fees-earma
rked-projects-5223

but that might change:
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...ht-California-
stops-6772428.php
A San Mateo state senator is renewing his effort to have the $500
fine for "California stop" red-light violations reduced to a sum that
low-income people can afford.
Sen. Jerry Hill thinks the current punishment for the slow, rolling
right-hand turns doesn't fit the crime. He introduced legislation
last week that would cut the fine in half.
In California, a red-light violation costs a driver about $500, by
far the highest fine in the nation, according to the traffic-watch
site TheNewspaper.com. The fine is a whopping $540 in Hill's district
in San Mateo County. In most states, it's around $100.

In article , PAS wrote:

and if you challenge them, they might fine you:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...e-muzzles-red-
light-camera-critique-n751371
After his wife got a ticket based on a red light camera in Beaverton,
Oregon, Mats Järlström, a Swedish-born electronics engineer, studied
the calculations used to determine the length of the yellow light
cycle. He concluded it was too short, because it failed to account
for the longer time a driver needed to turn a corner, rather than go
straight through the intersection.

Convinced the cameras were using an out-of-date formula, he took his
message to practically anyone who would listen Ð local TV stations, a
conference of traffic engineers, and even the state board of engineer
examiners.

Mats Järlström in Beaverton, Oregon was fined $500 by speaking about
engineering issues without a license, according to the board of
engineer examiners, when he studied the calculations used to
determine the length of the yellow light cycle after his wife
received a ticket based on a red light camera. Institute for Justice

That's what got him in trouble.

The board fined him $500 and said he was violating a state law by
speaking about engineering issues without a license.

That is a clear violation of his 1st Amendment rights.

yep.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:


At least, with the red light camera tickets, there are no points
assessed and no notice to your insurance carrier of a ticket. Only
your bank account is hurt.

that depends where. some states assess points.

"nospam" wrote

| chicago is home to the redflex blackmail scam.
|

Interesting. I'd never heard of Redflex. This reminds
me of the fundraising companies. They go into the
local fire or police station and offer to handle fundraising
for a fee. Even left-wing activists have gone for such
sleazy fundraising. They often end up taking 50-90%
of the money raised. Then they hound anyone who's
donated in the past. I no longer answer the phone
for unknown people at all and no longer donate money
to anyone.

| i'm finding conflicting information for massachusetts, but there's a
| bunch of rlcs in rhode island (mostly providence), new york (mostly
| nyc) and pennsylvania (mostly philadelphia).
|
| maine & new hampshire prohibit them. live free or die. vermont and
| connecticut don't prohibit them, but there aren't any at this time.
|

Thanks. I didn't know any of that. I actually drove
to DC recently, but had good luck there and back.
.....At least, so far no one has mailed me a bill.

VT and NH have become a pleasure because both now
ban all handhelds. In MA the politicians are all busy
on their phones and don't want such a law. Driving
here has become hair raising.

On 5/2/2017 11:33 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

At least, with the red light camera tickets, there are no points
assessed and no notice to your insurance carrier of a ticket. Only
your bank account is hurt.
that depends where. some states assess points.

Then they would have to prove who the driver was. How do they manage to
do that? I gather that payment of the fine is admittance of guilt and
results in point being assessed. If this were the case in NY, I would
challenge the fine if I were to ever get one.

On 5/2/2017 11:33 AM, nospam wrote:
In article 2017050207212565483-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

Wait until the California readers tell us their fine amount.
21453(a) VC; running a Red light = $495
22450 VC; Rolling through a stop sign = $238

Yikes!
Kinda grabs your attention doesn't it?
the base fine is $100.

it's all of the extra stuff where it adds up:
http://cironline.org/reports/califor...nes-fees-earma
rked-projects-5223

but that might change:
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...ht-California-
stops-6772428.php
A San Mateo state senator is renewing his effort to have the $500
fine for "California stop" red-light violations reduced to a sum that
low-income people can afford.
Sen. Jerry Hill thinks the current punishment for the slow, rolling
right-hand turns doesn't fit the crime. He introduced legislation
last week that would cut the fine in half.
In California, a red-light violation costs a driver about $500, by
far the highest fine in the nation, according to the traffic-watch
site TheNewspaper.com. The fine is a whopping $540 in Hill's district
in San Mateo County. In most states, it's around $100.

Even a fine of half that amount doesn't match the crime. It's a
fleecing, plain and simple.

On 5/2/2017 11:33 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| Florida sounds like a weird place, indeed, what with
| locals pleased to get tickets for legal driving,
|
| Red light cameras are currently in use in 24 states and the District
| of Columbia. Locals who clear an intersection before the light turns
| red, or come to a stop before turning right on red, are not ticketed
| and those who don't are not driving legally at that time.
|

You said you got a ticket for running a yellow light.
So it turned red before you reached the other side
and you're happy to pay a fee? Where I come from
that's called a scam that exploits the letter of the law.
it's more than a scam.

entering a yellow in florida is legal, which means the ticket is
automatically void.

it also means the camera is broken, which means *all* tickets from it
could be voided.

It angers people and degrades respect for the law. It
also tends to make people feel that they're in opposition
to police. The only police most people will have experience
with are the ones the running scams.
that's another reason why speed traps are bad.

Your own attitude is that of a person who no longer
thinks of themselves as a citizen. If you did you'd want
your city to act honorably. Your description of Orlando's
situation sounds more like someone talking business:
It's a good scam because it pays for body cams for the
police. I guess the implication there is that you might
have to pay $158, but you've saved thousands on
property tax fees by scamming unsuspecting tourists.
I guess that's what we should expect from a tourist
destination that hosts the likes of Disney. Tourist areas
always base their economy on fleecing visitors.

There was an interesting story about camera scams in
Chicago awhile back:

http://time.com/3505994/red-light-ca...blems-tickets/

Last I heard, Chicago had agreed to lengthen yellow
lights by a tiny bit, but they were complaining about
how they'd lose millions as a result. ... And to think the
US used to be a first world country.
shortening the yellow is a well known trick and not just chicago. lots
of red light tickets have been overturned because of that.

chicago is home to the redflex blackmail scam.

there is a *****load* of rlcs in chicago. ****loads.

Fortunately I'm not aware of any New England states
that have started running this scam yet, but I guess I'd
better keep an eye out for it.
consider yourself aware now.

i'm finding conflicting information for massachusetts, but there's a
bunch of rlcs in rhode island (mostly providence), new york (mostly
nyc) and pennsylvania (mostly philadelphia).

There are a lot of red light cameras on Long Island, not just NYC, and
the number is growing as the local politicians need more ways to extract
money from the residents.


maine & new hampshire prohibit them. live free or die. vermont and
connecticut don't prohibit them, but there aren't any at this time.

On 5/2/2017 10:21 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-02 14:07:29 +0000, PAS said:

On 5/2/2017 1:39 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2017-05-02 05:19:01 +0000, Tony Cooper
said:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:08:35 -0400, PAS wrote:

I oppose the red light camera program in this city. I see the
need to
discourage drivers from blowing through yellow lights because there
are so many accidents caused by this. These accidents can be more
severe than a lot of rear-enders because the yellow light runner
often
accelerates to make the light and the result is a broadside
collision.

Red light cameras have reduced the number of T-bone accidents here on
Long Island but they've increased the amount of rear-end accidents.

The same has been found in Orlando, but the t-bone accidents tend to
result in more damage to people and vehicles.

The fine here is $158, which I understand is much lower than in some
areas.

Wow, that makes our fine look downright cheap. The fine here is
$50.00
plus the $30.00 surcharge for a total of $80.00.

Wait until the California readers tell us their fine amount.

21453(a) VC; running a Red light = $495
22450 VC; Rolling through a stop sign = $238


Yikes!

Kinda grabs your attention doesn't it?

Ultimately there is more to the overall costs. If you just pay the
fine your insurance premium can increase and not be lowered for up to
three years. That can be avoided by taking the real scam, "Traffic
School", if you have been citation free for 12 months. There you have
to pay the fine, and a registration fee to the Court which varies by
County, along with the "Traffic School" charges. All of that can add
up to an additional $150-$200, all to avoid higher insurance premiums
for three years.

Since a red-light camera ticket is not a moving violation in NY, there
is no hit taken to one's insurance premiums. If there were, I suspect
there would be quite an uproar that could lead to a movement to have
them removed.

I'm moving to Tennessee later this year. Legislation was passed about a
year ago outlawing the installation of an new red light or speed cameras
in the state. The fine is low and, by law, the failure to pay the fine
cannot affect one's driver's license, credit report, or insurance rates.

On 2017-05-02 15:33:21 +0000, nospam said:

In article 2017050200533044054-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

There were some times I was pulled over and ticketed, but I was off
duty and I was not going to pull the "brother cop" act.

why wouldn't other cops see the blank owner/reg?

They would/did, but there is a time and place for pushing one's status.
I choose not to push that envelope, and there is an element of an
ethic/attitude test. I was not about to whip out my flat badge to try
and gain some sort of undue influence. However, if they pushed and
actually asked the question, I would have explained that the owner/reg
was blank was due to me being "on the job", but they would/should have
known. Writing the ticket would still be at the discretion of the cop,
and on each of those occassions I have to admit it was a fair cop, I
was speeding.

why would you need to push your status? they'll see it when they run
your info.

One of those
tickets was written by a Federal cop outside Fort Hunter-Liggett,
California on Thanksgiving day, on a road which was usually deserted.

it's all about the money...

The SOB was using radar in a suburban with no ink, or lightbar.

isn't that illegal?

Nope! It was a plain wrapper Fed vehicle, with Fed plates.

unmarked?

Yup!
That is what "plain wrapper" is in LEO jargon.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

In article , PAS wrote:

At least, with the red light camera tickets, there are no points
assessed and no notice to your insurance carrier of a ticket. Only
your bank account is hurt.
that depends where. some states assess points.

Then they would have to prove who the driver was. How do they manage to
do that?

it's not that hard to match up the photo in the ticket with the photo
of the registered owner from their driver's license. supposedly, the
tickets are reviewed. that's the claim, anyway.

or they just assume it's the registered owner, who can then testify
under penalty of perjury that it was someone else.

I gather that payment of the fine is admittance of guilt and
results in point being assessed. If this were the case in NY, I would
challenge the fine if I were to ever get one.

as you should.

2 points in arizona:
https://www.violationinfo.com/azphx/html/info.htm