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35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 1st 18, 12:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
[email protected]
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Posts: 27
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:33:09 -0400, nospam
wrote:

it's nowhere near as good as a dedicated negative/slide scanner.


I know that, and of course I fully agree.

The thing is, I don't think he has yet fully assessed the sheer amount
of work involved in making worthwhile scans from negatives.

As those of us who have done it will know, the amount of work involved
in such a project is enormous. I suspect he is still at the
optimistic "this will be relatively simple and straightforward"
stage...

We're usually talking years here.
  #12  
Old August 1st 18, 01:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

In article ,
wrote:

it's nowhere near as good as a dedicated negative/slide scanner.


I know that, and of course I fully agree.

The thing is, I don't think he has yet fully assessed the sheer amount
of work involved in making worthwhile scans from negatives.


it won't be much less than from prints, quite possibly more since it's
very hard to autofeed prints and there's a higher chance of dirt, dust,
etc.

As those of us who have done it will know, the amount of work involved
in such a project is enormous. I suspect he is still at the
optimistic "this will be relatively simple and straightforward"
stage...


yes it is.

We're usually talking years here.


that depends how many photos.
  #13  
Old August 1st 18, 09:44 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tim Watts
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Posts: 53
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On 01/08/18 00:08, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:33:09 -0400, nospam
wrote:

it's nowhere near as good as a dedicated negative/slide scanner.


I know that, and of course I fully agree.

The thing is, I don't think he has yet fully assessed the sheer amount
of work involved in making worthwhile scans from negatives.


Oh I have - I've done it before with a Nikon Coolscan III a long loing
time ago.

It is time consuming... But OTOH sending slides away is risky (loss) and
costs are looking like around 48p per slide for a RAW scan (which means
I can fiddle with them in Lightroom and perhaps have a bit more to work
with).

I don;t have many slides - maybe a few hundred - but I have a bugger of
a lot of negatives.


As those of us who have done it will know, the amount of work involved
in such a project is enormous. I suspect he is still at the
optimistic "this will be relatively simple and straightforward"
stage...


Not really... If I can afford to get a reasonable paid scan done, it's
obviously the way to go. If it's going to cost a thousand quid, then
clearly it's better to buy a decent 2nd hand Nikon (the Coolscan IV ED I
mentioned should be "good enough" for this job) and plod through them -
say one filmset each weekend.

Eventually the job gets done and I do get to choose what I do first in
which order.

We're usually talking years here.


  #14  
Old August 1st 18, 10:39 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
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Posts: 278
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On 2018-08-01 02:58, nospam wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

it's nowhere near as good as a dedicated negative/slide scanner.


I know that, and of course I fully agree.

The thing is, I don't think he has yet fully assessed the sheer amount
of work involved in making worthwhile scans from negatives.


it won't be much less than from prints, quite possibly more since it's
very hard to autofeed prints and there's a higher chance of dirt, dust,
etc.


On the other hand, they are bigger in size, so dust is less relevant. If
all you have is a standard "paper" scanner with a negative attachment,
it may be better to scan the prints if well preserved.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #15  
Old August 1st 18, 10:47 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Carlos E.R.
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Posts: 278
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On 2018-08-01 10:44, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/08/18 00:08, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:33:09 -0400, nospam
wrote:

it's nowhere near as good as a dedicated negative/slide scanner.


I know that, and of course I fully agree.

The thing is, I don't think he has yet fully assessed the sheer amount
of work involved in making worthwhile scans from negatives.


Oh I have - I've done it before with a Nikon Coolscan III a long loing
time ago.

It is time consuming... But OTOH sending slides away is risky (loss) and
costs are looking like around 48p per slide for a RAW scan (which means
I can fiddle with them in Lightroom and perhaps have a bit more to work
with).

I don;t have many slides - maybe a few hundred - but I have a bugger of
a lot of negatives.


Maybe there are places that can do a fast and inexpensive scan
(automated) of many negatives. I suppose a good, fast, automatic feed
scanner is expensive.

Then examine the results and do a detailed scan of those pictures that
are worth the expense.


I'm doing something of the kind, but it is not automatic scan, and it is
not "wonderful" quality. It takes time, even if it is 2 seconds
nominally per photo: placing the negative in the frame, placing the
frame in position, press the button...

Just enough for seeing what the photos are about in the computer, or
having a family archive.

If you want quality, you have to pay for it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #16  
Old August 1st 18, 11:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
RJH
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Posts: 228
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On 01/08/2018 09:44, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/08/18 00:08, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:33:09 -0400, nospam
wrote:

it's nowhere near as good as a dedicated negative/slide scanner.


I know that, and of course I fully agree.

The thing is, I don't think he has yet fully assessed the sheer amount
of work involved in making worthwhile scans from negatives.


Oh I have - I've done it before with a Nikon Coolscan III a long loing
time ago.

It is time consuming... But OTOH sending slides away is risky (loss) and
costs are looking like around 48p per slide for a RAW scan (which means
I can fiddle with them in Lightroom and perhaps have a bit more to work
with).

I don;t have many slides - maybe a few hundred - but I have a bugger of
a lot of negatives.


Say 5000? I'd probably go for this:

http://www.pixave.co.uk/negatives-scanning-service

at 20p/negative, £1000. Look at them all, and see if any were worth
working on. I'd want some assurances about the safety/security of the
slides*. Then if necessary, buy a Nikon scanner (say a IV ED at £250)
and scan the ones I wanted.

I think I'm scarred from the days of optical media. I'm of the mind that
this sort of thing is just a waste of time - 5000 scans would take up
say 200 hours? (at 2-3 minutes per scan?). Well over a working month.

£1250 (less the cost of reselling the scanner) is a fair amount of money
to me, but I could afford to miss it, just about, if the pictures were
important.


* a nice weekend in Bognor? :-)
--
Cheers, Rob
  #17  
Old August 1st 18, 01:15 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tim Watts
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Posts: 53
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On 01/08/18 11:38, RJH wrote:
On 01/08/2018 09:44, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/08/18 00:08, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:33:09 -0400, nospam
wrote:

it's nowhere near as good as a dedicated negative/slide scanner.

I know that, and of course I fully agree.

The thing is, I don't think he has yet fully assessed the sheer amount
of work involved in making worthwhile scans from negatives.


Oh I have - I've done it before with a Nikon Coolscan III a long loing
time ago.

It is time consuming... But OTOH sending slides away is risky (loss)
and costs are looking like around 48p per slide for a RAW scan (which
means I can fiddle with them in Lightroom and perhaps have a bit more
to work with).

I don;t have many slides - maybe a few hundred - but I have a bugger
of a lot of negatives.


Say 5000? I'd probably go for this:

http://www.pixave.co.uk/negatives-scanning-service

at 20p/negative, £1000. Look at them all, and see if any were worth
working on. I'd want some assurances about the safety/security of the
slides*. Then if necessary, buy a Nikon scanner (say a IV ED at £250)
and scan the ones I wanted.

I think I'm scarred from the days of optical media. I'm of the mind that
this sort of thing is just a waste of time - 5000 scans would take up
say 200 hours? (at 2-3 minutes per scan?). Well over a working month.

£1250 (less the cost of reselling the scanner) is a fair amount of money
to me, but I could afford to miss it, just about, if the pictures were
important.


Perhaps another approach is rather than religiously scanning everything,
a small lightbox to see what's worth scanning - I know it's harder to
sight a negative, but one can do so to some extent.

Combine that with a good naming/folder system so you can see easily what
hasn't been scanned and revisit later.
  #18  
Old August 2nd 18, 07:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Wally
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Posts: 231
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 13:15:00 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 01/08/18 11:38, RJH wrote:
On 01/08/2018 09:44, Tim Watts wrote:
On 01/08/18 00:08, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:33:09 -0400, nospam
wrote:

it's nowhere near as good as a dedicated negative/slide scanner.

I know that, and of course I fully agree.

The thing is, I don't think he has yet fully assessed the sheer amount
of work involved in making worthwhile scans from negatives.

Oh I have - I've done it before with a Nikon Coolscan III a long loing
time ago.

It is time consuming... But OTOH sending slides away is risky (loss)
and costs are looking like around 48p per slide for a RAW scan (which
means I can fiddle with them in Lightroom and perhaps have a bit more
to work with).

I don;t have many slides - maybe a few hundred - but I have a bugger
of a lot of negatives.


Say 5000? I'd probably go for this:

http://www.pixave.co.uk/negatives-scanning-service

at 20p/negative, £1000. Look at them all, and see if any were worth
working on. I'd want some assurances about the safety/security of the
slides*. Then if necessary, buy a Nikon scanner (say a IV ED at £250)
and scan the ones I wanted.

I think I'm scarred from the days of optical media. I'm of the mind that
this sort of thing is just a waste of time - 5000 scans would take up
say 200 hours? (at 2-3 minutes per scan?). Well over a working month.

£1250 (less the cost of reselling the scanner) is a fair amount of money
to me, but I could afford to miss it, just about, if the pictures were
important.


Perhaps another approach is rather than religiously scanning everything,
a small lightbox to see what's worth scanning - I know it's harder to
sight a negative, but one can do so to some extent.

Combine that with a good naming/folder system so you can see easily what
hasn't been scanned and revisit later.


You can do "contact prints" if you have a scanner capable of doing
transmission scanning. The easiest way is to just lie the negs down on
the glass (as opposed to using holders). Depending on the ambient
humidity, the negs will curl and that is a big hassle.

But if the humidity is right, they will lie fairly flat and you can
scan many quickly. Then invert the colors to positive in your favorite
editor and you can see what is there.

Lie them emulsion side down to avoid Newton rings. That gives scans
that are the wrong way around. Just flip them horizontally in
software.

How old are the negs? Older negs can have color problems that are hard
to fix due to the different fade rates of the color layers. These
issues can be dealt with by adjusting curves in photo editing
software. But it's hard, because there is no easy way to know how to
fix the curves. You have to go by eye, and the eye tricks you.

There are also color issues due to color changes in the base and
gelatin matrix. Curves will fix those too, but it is tricky.

You would think all negs on a roll could be adjusted the same way, but
my experience is that this does not work at all.

Still, with experience, it is possible to get excellent restoration
results of old negs. (They turn grainy, though, because of loss of
dye, but that is maybe not a big issue for family shots.)

It is just very time consuming.
  #19  
Old August 2nd 18, 10:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
[email protected]
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Posts: 27
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 00:08:58 -0600, Wally wrote:
at 20p/negative, £1000. Look at them all, and see if any were worth
working on.


My experience was that after going down that kind of route, in the end
the only sensible approach was to systematically scan the lot manually
to the highest resolution possible, in batches of (say) one roll of
negatives at a time.

Obviously discarding at this stage the definite clunkers, out of
focus, unacceptable facial expressions, images of no interest, etc.

Scan them in, sort them, batch rename, etc., But do not stop for fine
editing at this point Better workfllow to have scan sessions, and
then editing sessions, not both at the same time.

The gambit of rough scan then redo for the ones of interest doesn't
work -- for example, sometimes you have a bad image but half of it is
of interest. Do that half while you see it, otherwise you'll never
go back to it. You need to decide on scan or not there and then, not
later.

Also, the items you scan, do them all at the highest quality you can
and save them in a lossless format (not jpg!). Keep the raw scans as
originals, and together in meaningful arrangement. Copy from this
"master archive" the images that you want to eit. into a separate
sequence.

  #20  
Old August 2nd 18, 12:00 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
RJH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 228
Default 35mm slide and negative scanning - UK?

On 02/08/2018 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 00:08:58 -0600, Wally wrote:
at 20p/negative, £1000. Look at them all, and see if any were worth
working on.


My experience was that after going down that kind of route, in the end
the only sensible approach was to systematically scan the lot manually
to the highest resolution possible, in batches of (say) one roll of
negatives at a time.

Obviously discarding at this stage the definite clunkers, out of
focus, unacceptable facial expressions, images of no interest, etc.

Scan them in, sort them, batch rename, etc., But do not stop for fine
editing at this point Better workfllow to have scan sessions, and
then editing sessions, not both at the same time.

The gambit of rough scan then redo for the ones of interest doesn't
work -- for example, sometimes you have a bad image but half of it is
of interest. Do that half while you see it, otherwise you'll never
go back to it. You need to decide on scan or not there and then, not
later.


Are these online/retail commercial scanners really that bad, then? You
can't even get a ballpark estimate of whether the shot is worth keeping?
I've got maybe 400 35mm negatives I was thinking of committing to an
online processor. If a decent number were worth keeping I'd buy a decent
scanner.

--
Cheers, Rob
 




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