photo Printing problem

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:54:30 -0800 (PST), Pat
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:54:30 -0800 (PST), Pat
wrote:

.
People will probably flame me for the answer, but in the end it is an
easy and low-tech solution that will work .

I am sure someone will, but I believe it is a great answer. The
right answer is not just based on the question, but must also be based
on the one asking the question.

It's a funny thing...
A few years ago in alt.photoshop I recommended to someone they should
switch off all colour management for their 9000 Canon in order to get
what they saw on the screen. I got laughed at by the nerds but the guy
who took my advise, was grateful.

One of the Nerds was Mike Russell - self appointed master of Photoshop
curves who today is handing out my advise!

The concept of switching off colour management is very valid. For
starters, your screen is based on sRGB - International colour standard.
All your software outputs sRGB too.

Non Professional printers are all based on sRGB. The theory then is that
by getting rid of all independent colour management, you are relying on
your OS and software to deliver sRGB and the printer to recognise it's
input as this... Leaving only the paper selection to alter the profile
to match the paper.

In the printer properties under colour management are a plethora of
'profiles' supposedly selected at random by the OS as the one most
appropriate for the job. If you don't disable all of them, you are still
likely to get double trouble when printing.

If you want do a quick and dirty colour balance on your screen, you need
to print out "digital dog's" example file (unaltered) and then alter the
colours of your monitor to match the print. It only works with your
system but it will get you pretty close with your colour match for home use.

If you get a red or magenta colour cast to your prints it is because
somewhere along the line, two profiles are being used - "Double
Trouble". Fix that and paradise awaits...

D-Mac.info

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 07:33:02 +1000, D-Mac wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:54:30 -0800 (PST), Pat
wrote:

.
People will probably flame me for the answer, but in the end it is an
easy and low-tech solution that will work .

I am sure someone will, but I believe it is a great answer. The
right answer is not just based on the question, but must also be based
on the one asking the question.

It's a funny thing...
A few years ago in alt.photoshop I recommended to someone they should
switch off all colour management for their 9000 Canon in order to get
what they saw on the screen. I got laughed at by the nerds but the guy
who took my advise, was grateful.

One of the Nerds was Mike Russell - self appointed master of Photoshop
curves who today is handing out my advise!

The concept of switching off colour management is very valid. For
starters, your screen is based on sRGB - International colour standard.
All your software outputs sRGB too.

Non Professional printers are all based on sRGB. The theory then is that
by getting rid of all independent colour management, you are relying on
your OS and software to deliver sRGB and the printer to recognise it's
input as this... Leaving only the paper selection to alter the profile
to match the paper.

In the printer properties under colour management are a plethora of
'profiles' supposedly selected at random by the OS as the one most
appropriate for the job. If you don't disable all of them, you are still
likely to get double trouble when printing.

If you want do a quick and dirty colour balance on your screen, you need
to print out "digital dog's" example file (unaltered) and then alter the
colours of your monitor to match the print. It only works with your
system but it will get you pretty close with your colour match for home use.

If you get a red or magenta colour cast to your prints it is because
somewhere along the line, two profiles are being used - "Double
Trouble". Fix that and paradise awaits...

D-Mac.info

It's not always that simple.

For example on HP printers, choosing an "HP Photo Paper" type in the print
setup options will change which types of inks are laid down on the paper.
Most (older?) HP printers, by default, will not use the black ink cartridge
to create blacks on photo papers. The reason being is that HP's photo
papers are designed to accept dye-based inks only. Their black cartridge is
a pigment-based ink. From research, it was found that this was due to
selling to the business industry for so long, needing the sharpest blacks
for correspondence, they kept the black ink pigment-based as their default.
The print setup feature will disable this pigment black cartridge when
choosing any of the photo-paper types. When trying to produce blacks from
the CMY dye-inks you can get magenta or green color casts and low contrast
darks in your image--being paper-type and paper manufacturer dependent.
HP's papers are formulated to display this CMY mud as deeper blacks than
other companies' papers. Other paper surfaces will make this CMY mud appear
as a gross dark purple or dark blue-green. It takes experimenting with
different paper setup selections every time you try a different brand of
paper with your printer. Some photo papers accept both types of inks (dye
and/or pigment), some don't.

If getting odd color shifts try other paper types in your print setups. You
may get the best results of all by just choosing plain or thick paper on a
"best" quality setting when using different photo papers.


bonus info: I was recently given an older large format HP 1220c printer to
play with. This is how I found out about HP's photo-paper/black-ink
color-shift anomaly. I had an HP Photosmart-1000 driver installed from long
ago and tried to use it with this 1220c, it worked but lacked the 13x19
paper options. It got me to wondering. The 1220c driver's native max DPI
resolution is 2400x1200. Installing the printer driver from its successor,
the 9300 series, it will happily produce a 4800x1200 dpi resolution. I
compared printouts between the two drivers. The 9300 series driver does
indeed create finer dots on the paper. You need a magnifying glass to see
them. You may be able to upgrade your printer to a newer model with more
printer options, more features, and higher resolution just by installing
the next generation's printer driver. I found that the same is true for
scanners. The only thing that really drastically changes in most of these
devices from year to year is the software, the casing, and panel buttons --
not the internal engines. Unless based on a radically different method,
i.e. 4 inks vs 6 inks. But even then, some 6-ink printers still function
perfectly fine without the photo-inks installed.

Going to try the 9600-series printer driver next (6-ink). This 1220c will
probably also do borderless printing with the right drivers. I'd try the
9800 drivers but users report margin problems, HP tells people to roll-back
to the 9600 printer's drivers.

FentonFarnsworth wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 07:33:02 +1000, D-Mac wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:54:30 -0800 (PST), Pat
wrote:

.
People will probably flame me for the answer, but in the end it is an
easy and low-tech solution that will work .
I am sure someone will, but I believe it is a great answer. The
right answer is not just based on the question, but must also be based
on the one asking the question.
It's a funny thing...
A few years ago in alt.photoshop I recommended to someone they should
switch off all colour management for their 9000 Canon in order to get
what they saw on the screen. I got laughed at by the nerds but the guy
who took my advise, was grateful.

One of the Nerds was Mike Russell - self appointed master of Photoshop
curves who today is handing out my advise!

The concept of switching off colour management is very valid. For
starters, your screen is based on sRGB - International colour standard.
All your software outputs sRGB too.

Non Professional printers are all based on sRGB. The theory then is that
by getting rid of all independent colour management, you are relying on
your OS and software to deliver sRGB and the printer to recognise it's
input as this... Leaving only the paper selection to alter the profile
to match the paper.

In the printer properties under colour management are a plethora of
'profiles' supposedly selected at random by the OS as the one most
appropriate for the job. If you don't disable all of them, you are still
likely to get double trouble when printing.

If you want do a quick and dirty colour balance on your screen, you need
to print out "digital dog's" example file (unaltered) and then alter the
colours of your monitor to match the print. It only works with your
system but it will get you pretty close with your colour match for home use.

If you get a red or magenta colour cast to your prints it is because
somewhere along the line, two profiles are being used - "Double
Trouble". Fix that and paradise awaits...

D-Mac.info

It's not always that simple.

For example on HP printers, choosing an "HP Photo Paper" type in the print
setup options will change which types of inks are laid down on the paper.
Most (older?) HP printers, by default, will not use the black ink cartridge
to create blacks on photo papers. The reason being is that HP's photo
papers are designed to accept dye-based inks only. Their black cartridge is
a pigment-based ink. From research, it was found that this was due to
selling to the business industry for so long, needing the sharpest blacks
for correspondence, they kept the black ink pigment-based as their default.
The print setup feature will disable this pigment black cartridge when
choosing any of the photo-paper types. When trying to produce blacks from
the CMY dye-inks you can get magenta or green color casts and low contrast
darks in your image--being paper-type and paper manufacturer dependent.
HP's papers are formulated to display this CMY mud as deeper blacks than
other companies' papers. Other paper surfaces will make this CMY mud appear
as a gross dark purple or dark blue-green. It takes experimenting with
different paper setup selections every time you try a different brand of
paper with your printer. Some photo papers accept both types of inks (dye
and/or pigment), some don't.

If getting odd color shifts try other paper types in your print setups. You
may get the best results of all by just choosing plain or thick paper on a
"best" quality setting when using different photo papers.


bonus info: I was recently given an older large format HP 1220c printer to
play with. This is how I found out about HP's photo-paper/black-ink
color-shift anomaly. I had an HP Photosmart-1000 driver installed from long
ago and tried to use it with this 1220c, it worked but lacked the 13x19
paper options. It got me to wondering. The 1220c driver's native max DPI
resolution is 2400x1200. Installing the printer driver from its successor,
the 9300 series, it will happily produce a 4800x1200 dpi resolution. I
compared printouts between the two drivers. The 9300 series driver does
indeed create finer dots on the paper. You need a magnifying glass to see
them. You may be able to upgrade your printer to a newer model with more
printer options, more features, and higher resolution just by installing
the next generation's printer driver. I found that the same is true for
scanners. The only thing that really drastically changes in most of these
devices from year to year is the software, the casing, and panel buttons --
not the internal engines. Unless based on a radically different method,
i.e. 4 inks vs 6 inks. But even then, some 6-ink printers still function
perfectly fine without the photo-inks installed.

Going to try the 9600-series printer driver next (6-ink). This 1220c will
probably also do borderless printing with the right drivers. I'd try the
9800 drivers but users report margin problems, HP tells people to roll-back
to the 9600 printer's drivers.



I imagine that you understand how HP drivers (or most other for that
matter?)

All inkjet printers have a native resolution. Most being multiples of
360 DPI. Regardless of the resolution of the image you send them, the
driver will interpolate the data to the printer's native resolution.

HP found it more cost effective to use UV (pigment) ink for black when
using non-photo printers. This is why you get a composite black when
printing photos. The newer HPs are on top the B&W printer quality with
different shaded of black.

D-Mac.info

D-Mac wrote:

All inkjet printers have a native resolution. Most being multiples of
360 DPI.

Rubbish. DPI and PPI aren't a 1:1 relationship except under exceptional
circumstances.

Regardless of the resolution of the image you send them, the
driver will interpolate the data to the printer's native resolution.

That part is true.

--
john mcwilliams