Do you feel Lucky?

"Richard Knoppow" schrieb:
"Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message

Worse is the photographic result - the lack of a
anti-halation coating
(AHU) contributes to halos and an overall unsharp
appearance of the
negativ under certain lighting conditions - like with a
glaring piece
of chrome or metal or the sun within the frame.

Halation was much worse for plates
than film but its amazing that anyone would make film now
without the coating.

Cost, cost, cost.

I suspect that Lucky SHD may in fact be a movie-stock derived film. In
cinema production oder cinema copy the lighting situation is
controlled, there is no such thing as an unintended flare or glare -
and thus less problem with a weak AHU, which is a costly thing if done
properly.

Orwo UN54 responds in a similar fashion - but not as bad as the Lucky.

Jens´ pictures of the railway station demonstrate the negative effects
quite nicely.

Now take in account that the SHD100 was sold by the european importer
as an affordable alternative for APX, FP4 and PlusX and aimed at
beginners - imagine what degree of frustration has come with using
this material. :-/

Also, the back coating is also used for
countering the curling tendency of the emulsion the
anti-halation dye is usually included in this coating. If
there is no back coating at all I suspect the film will curl
very badly.

A behaviour for which the Lucky is well-known.

Gruss,
Roman
--
"An MDCCCXII/Mémorable par la campagne contre les Russes/
Sous le préfectura de Jules Doazan."
"Vu et approuvé par nous commandant russe de la ville de Coblentz/
le 1er janvier 1814."

Cost, cost, cost.

How do they make the film so cheap?

Easy:

o Leave out half the manufacturing steps;

o Save on personnel costs and fire that pesky
QC department;

o Save even more and fire the cleaning crew,
so what's a bit of dust here and there?

o And since it's a workers' paradise, you
don't need to pay the workers squat -
there's no money in paradise and dialectical
materialism is the only motivation a man
needs to do good work.

* * *

Repent, ye customers of the Evil Empire and
follow instead the path of the Great Yellow Father.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/da-main.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Repent, ye customers of the Evil Empire and
follow instead the path of the Great Yellow Father.

But the Great Yellow Father hath abandoned me. His devine child
Kodachrome, no longer can be found in the holy land. The magic soup to
make pictures come of it, has been lost, and there is only one temple,
to the deity Doo-ain, that has it, far off in a place called Kan-Zas in
the land of Mehreecah.

His silvery wizard, Try-ecks, has been replaced with a subcubus, called
new and improved and given the number of the beast, 400.
His son Plooz-ecks, has also been replaced and anoited with the lesser
number 125 befitting his station in life.

Their fine grandfather, Pan-ecks has died, and so has the magician
Tek of the Pan clan.

He has pushed upon us a faint shadow of Verry-Chrom and his son Verry-Chrom
of the Pan clan, called Tea-Macks, who is half blind and is easily
blinded by bright lights and can not see in the shadows.

His daemons, KodaBromide, Medalist, Panalure, and their cousins were slain,
along with their mates, Deck-Tahl, and Mike-Roh-Dahl, who have been replaced
by the evil droids HC-110 and D-76.

What is left of his empire is being destroyed by the great evil wizzard,
Lord Dig-Eat-All, who once worked for the Great Yellow Father and now seeks
to take over his empire and destroy him.

It is indeed a dark time in the empire and we are praying that the
Chinese Empire called Pee-Are-Cee, will be able to learn from the
time they were allies with the Great Yellow Father, before Lord
Dig-Eat-All took over and severed their partnership.

That is why we asked if anyone had used their magic film called Loo-Key,
or as it seems, Lee-Key.

:-)

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

"Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message
...
"Richard Knoppow" schrieb:
"Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message

Worse is the photographic result - the lack of a
anti-halation coating
(AHU) contributes to halos and an overall unsharp
appearance of the
negativ under certain lighting conditions - like with a
glaring piece
of chrome or metal or the sun within the frame.

Halation was much worse for plates
than film but its amazing that anyone would make film now
without the coating.

Cost, cost, cost.

I suspect that Lucky SHD may in fact be a movie-stock
derived film. In
cinema production oder cinema copy the lighting situation
is
controlled, there is no such thing as an unintended flare
or glare -
and thus less problem with a weak AHU, which is a costly
thing if done
properly.

Orwo UN54 responds in a similar fashion - but not as bad
as the Lucky.

Jens´ pictures of the railway station demonstrate the
negative effects
quite nicely.

Now take in account that the SHD100 was sold by the
european importer
as an affordable alternative for APX, FP4 and PlusX and
aimed at
beginners - imagine what degree of frustration has come
with using
this material. :-/

Also, the back coating is also used for
countering the curling tendency of the emulsion the
anti-halation dye is usually included in this coating. If
there is no back coating at all I suspect the film will
curl
very badly.

A behaviour for which the Lucky is well-known.

Gruss,
Roman

The only motion picture film I am aware of that does
not have an anti-halation backing is special film made for
bi-packing. This arrangement is sometimes used for special
effects, i.e., generating a traveling mask for special
effects using a blue screen backing. Such film was also
available in the distant past for two-color color processes.
About the only other film I know of without such a backing
is the late, lamented Kodak High-Speed Infrared film. The IR
film shows halation effects and was sometimes used because
of that. I can only believe that the Lucky film is without
AH backing because they don't know how to apply it.


--
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Repent, ye customers of the Evil Empire and
follow instead the path of the Great Yellow Father.

But the Great Yellow Father hath abandoned me. His devine
child
Kodachrome, no longer can be found in the holy land. The
magic soup to
make pictures come of it, has been lost, and there is only
one temple,
to the deity Doo-ain, that has it, far off in a place
called Kan-Zas in
the land of Mehreecah.

His silvery wizard, Try-ecks, has been replaced with a
subcubus, called
new and improved and given the number of the beast, 400.
His son Plooz-ecks, has also been replaced and anoited
with the lesser
number 125 befitting his station in life.

Their fine grandfather, Pan-ecks has died, and so has the
magician
Tek of the Pan clan.

He has pushed upon us a faint shadow of Verry-Chrom and
his son Verry-Chrom
of the Pan clan, called Tea-Macks, who is half blind and
is easily
blinded by bright lights and can not see in the shadows.

His daemons, KodaBromide, Medalist, Panalure, and their
cousins were slain,
along with their mates, Deck-Tahl, and Mike-Roh-Dahl, who
have been replaced
by the evil droids HC-110 and D-76.

What is left of his empire is being destroyed by the great
evil wizzard,
Lord Dig-Eat-All, who once worked for the Great Yellow
Father and now seeks
to take over his empire and destroy him.

It is indeed a dark time in the empire and we are praying
that the
Chinese Empire called Pee-Are-Cee, will be able to learn
from the
time they were allies with the Great Yellow Father, before
Lord
Dig-Eat-All took over and severed their partnership.

That is why we asked if anyone had used their magic film
called Loo-Key,
or as it seems, Lee-Key.

:-)

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel
N3OWJ/4X1GM

The technology of making photographic materials was
developed and perfected a very high degree at Kodak and we
have simply taken it for granted. Even AGFA and Ilford were
never quite up to Kodak's level although Fuji probably is.
Making _modern_ emulsions is not a trivail task, the Chinese
are giving it a go but are at least a century behind the
times. I wish them well but my experiencew with Chinese
manufactured goods is not such as to encourage me to buy
more. Its too bad about Kodak but they are at least still
in there pitching where AGFA just gave it up completely.
Kodachrome is an obsolete product that just happens to
look better than a lot of the modern stuff and has a very
long dark storage lifetime. Processing it is a nightmare.
Kodak has been trying to discontinue it ever since they
introduced Ektachrome c.1948. They did discontinue
Kodachrome in sheet film sizes at that time much to the
consternation of the commercial photographers who depended
on it. Early Ektachrome was much inferior to Kodachrome but
I think Kodak may have been loosing money on processing it.


--

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL

Roman J. Rohleder wrote:
"Richard Knoppow" schrieb:
"Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message

Worse is the photographic result - the lack of a
anti-halation coating
(AHU) contributes to halos and an overall unsharp
appearance of the
negativ under certain lighting conditions - like with a
glaring piece
of chrome or metal or the sun within the frame.

Halation was much worse for plates
than film but its amazing that anyone would make film now
without the coating.

Cost, cost, cost.

Quality, quality, quality.

Richard Knoppow wrote:

Oh well, I was making a joke, which obviously fell flat. :-(

The technology of making photographic materials was
developed and perfected a very high degree at Kodak and we
have simply taken it for granted. Even AGFA and Ilford were
never quite up to Kodak's level although Fuji probably is.

That of course, has varied over time. Ilford has made some good films,
and IMHO their current incarnation of Pan-F much better than the Kodak,
oh yeh, they don't have one.

However if you remember IlfoChrome film from the 1980's, you can do nothing
but agree with Richard.


Agfa did some really good things over the years, such as Rodinal, which
is still a good developer, well over 100 years after being "invented".
They also were able to break the "speed barrier" of film, being stuck at
what is now ISO 80, but something we call the Second World War, put
an end to that.

They also had some monumental failures, remember "Rapid" cameras? They
took 35mm film in a two way cassette. You put it in the camera and
the film went from the new cassette to the old one, which had to
be moved to the take-up position.

I always liked their monochrome print paper, but never really thought much
of their film.


Making _modern_ emulsions is not a trivail task, the Chinese
are giving it a go but are at least a century behind the
times. I wish them well but my experiencew with Chinese
manufactured goods is not such as to encourage me to buy
more.

Eastern European companies seem to have gotten the 1920 vintage
film manufacturing process pretty much, and to be honest, I would
love to have a good supply of KB14 whether it says Adox, Efke, or
Orwo on it.

Its too bad about Kodak but they are at least still
in there pitching where AGFA just gave it up completely.

Yes, they still make some films, which is more than Agfa and Konica
do, whose films I have used over the years.

Ektar is a ray of hope for me that there is some film capturing the light
at the end of the tunnel, and it's not OLED's.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

In article
,
Peter wrote:
I visited Photokina, yesterday. I wandered all over the show and
noticed a booth that Lucky had. They were selling the 100 speed B&W
film. I asked their representative about the anti-halation backing.
He said "huh". After discussing it a while, he admitted that he
didn't know what that is. Perhaps they are not training the folks
they send to the show, but it is also consistent with the discussion
that there is none.

Sales people seldom know this kind of stuff. The company i work for use
to send me to Photo Plus, I was the technical sales rep then. I've since
left and returned as simply the technical support department and mainly
do repairs and product management- I don't do shows. They guys they
actually send as sales people only look for $$$ they seldom have
technical skills.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.

wrote:
Sales people seldom know this kind of stuff. The company i work for use
to send me to Photo Plus, I was the technical sales rep then. I've since
left and returned as simply the technical support department and mainly
do repairs and product management- I don't do shows. They guys they
actually send as sales people only look for $$$ they seldom have
technical skills.

I've never been to a professional photo show, but companies at show
I've been to are judged by the quality and price of their give away items
and the size and amount shown of the "girls" handing out things.

If can look at their face long enough to have a conversation with them, you
find out they are locals hired for the shows. :-)

The pretty ones do booths, the less pretty ones do registration and brocures
and the plain ones sell food.

At one computer show here, IBM set up an espresso bar staffed by pretty
girls. I had to wait 15 minutes in line just to get close enough to ask
one of the sales people for a brocure on a product on display, and I was
the first person to ask. :-)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

On 9/25/2008 9:49 PM Geoffrey S. Mendelson spake thus:

wrote:

Sales people seldom know this kind of stuff. The company i work for use
to send me to Photo Plus, I was the technical sales rep then. I've since
left and returned as simply the technical support department and mainly
do repairs and product management- I don't do shows. They guys they
actually send as sales people only look for $$$ they seldom have
technical skills.

I've never been to a professional photo show, but companies at show
I've been to are judged by the quality and price of their give away items
and the size and amount shown of the "girls" handing out things.

If can look at their face long enough to have a conversation with them, you
find out they are locals hired for the shows. :-)

The pretty ones do booths, the less pretty ones do registration and brocures
and the plain ones sell food.

I remember from the shows I've been to (Comdex in Las Vegas a long time
ago) that the girls were known as "booth bunnies".


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire