Tech Support?

On 10/3/2013 4:53 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 10:14:55 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 10/2/2013 10:44 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 20:32:52 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 10/2/2013 8:04 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 18:11:32 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 10/1/2013 10:55 PM, nospam wrote:
In article 201310011916001393-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2013-10-01 19:02:48 -0700, nospam said:

In article 2013100118384311967-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote:

Indeed, I considred using a iPad to
transfer files from my CF cards toa portable hard drive. The Apple
people told me it couldn't be done.

it's not intended to transfer files from a camera to a hard drive.

If you use the Apple "Camera Kit" it does.

not in the way you think.

What way do I think?
...or should I ask, what way do you think I think?

read what i said:
it's not intended to transfer files from a camera to a hard drive.

you then said with the cck, it can do that.

that tells me you are thinking it can operate as a typical hard drive
plugged into a laptop, both read and write.

it cannot.

the cck is designed for the most common use case, copying photos from a
camera to the ipad. that's why it's called a camera connection kit and
not a hard drive interface kit.

I use the Apple "Camera Kit" to transfer image files (JPEG only as
there is little point to load RAW files onto the iPad) from SDHC cards
used in my G11 and my D300S. For The times I shoot RAW+JPEG on my D300s
without an SDHC in the second slot, or for images captured on my
Fujifilm E900 which uses the awful, and mostly incompatible xD card, I
use the USB part of the "Camera kit" to connect the camera (D300S or
E900 via USB cable.
My iPad has no problem recognizing the files on either camera.
One note, you cannot use normal card readers which require a USB power
source, the iPad does not do that.

Now, what in way was it you think I was thinking?

what you describe is the normal task of copying photos from a card or
camera to the ipad and is fully supported. i never said otherwise.

as for hard drives, any usb hard drive would do the same thing
(assuming it's self-powered, obviously) and only if the photos were in
the same folder hierarchy as a camera's memory card (dcim folder).

the ipad sees the drive as a memory card and as with a card, it's
read-only. that is not an issue for 99% of use cases. people want to
copy photos off the cards so that they can reuse them to take more
photos, not write images back to them.

it's *extremely* rare that someone would want to copy photos to a card,
especially from a device that has a much better method of displaying
them and the connectivity to upload them to pretty much anywhere.



All of which proves, that the iPad port, does not function as a USB
port. Which is the function i need.

Sorry Peter, USB ports are only a connection. What the hardware does
with it is up to the software on each side.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB for more than you ever wanted to
know.


I quite understand that. Are you saying that I can connect a card reader
and two HD's to to an iPad, and download from the card, to a hard drive,
and backup HD1 to HD 2. Then look at the images on HD1 and do a rough
edit and cull with the iPad.

I don't think you can but that's largely because of the lack of
suitable software in the iPad. I expect it could be done but Apple
haven't seen fit.


That was my point. If the port doesn't have full USB functionality, and
then it's not USB.

But USB functionality does not include software to support each or any
of the zillions of different devices which may be plugged into the
port. The provision of the software is up to the manufacturer of the
hardware (in this case, Apple).

True. but isn't there a standard. However, nospam is insisting that the
Apple connector port is USB, when Apple say's it isn't .




What is interesting is that when nospam claims an Apple is not a PC, his
logic is exactly the opposite of his argument that the iPad has a USB port.

I'm sure you don't expect nospam to be consistent. :-)



--
PeterN

On 10/3/2013 5:32 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

That was my point. If the port doesn't have full USB functionality, and
then it's not USB.

But USB functionality does not include software to support each or any
of the zillions of different devices which may be plugged into the
port. The provision of the software is up to the manufacturer of the
hardware (in this case, Apple).

that is correct.

not supporting a particular device does not mean it's not usb compliant.


OK Prove that it is compliant.


What is interesting is that when nospam claims an Apple is not a PC, his
logic is exactly the opposite of his argument that the iPad has a USB port.

I'm sure you don't expect nospam to be consistent. :-)

i have always been consistent.

Cough! Cough

peter is just too clueless to understand what i've been saying or what
apple has been saying. he makes up things i never said and then says
i'm bull****ting. crazy.




--
PeterN

In article , PeterN
wrote:

That was my point. If the port doesn't have full USB functionality, and
then it's not USB.

But USB functionality does not include software to support each or any
of the zillions of different devices which may be plugged into the
port. The provision of the software is up to the manufacturer of the
hardware (in this case, Apple).

True. but isn't there a standard. However, nospam is insisting that the
Apple connector port is USB, when Apple say's it isn't .

they don't say that. stop making up stuff.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

That was my point. If the port doesn't have full USB functionality, and
then it's not USB.

But USB functionality does not include software to support each or any
of the zillions of different devices which may be plugged into the
port. The provision of the software is up to the manufacturer of the
hardware (in this case, Apple).

that is correct.

not supporting a particular device does not mean it's not usb compliant.

OK Prove that it is compliant.

the burden is on you to prove that it's not. all existing evidence
shows that it is compliant, which everyone except you can see.

you're the one who claims it's not compliant and is fabricating things
apple said about it. in other words, bull****.

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 17:32:11 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I don't think you can but that's largely because of the lack of
suitable software in the iPad. I expect it could be done but Apple
haven't seen fit.

no, it's because it's not a common use case for a mobile device, so
there's no point in bothering to support it.

Has it occurred to you that it's not a 'comon use case' for the simple
reason it can't be done with the iPad as it stands?

has it occurred to you that the reason the ipad doesn't do it is
*because* it's not a common use case?

At the moment it's an impossible use case. That makes it extremely
uncommon.

it's not impossible, as hd support can be done via jailbreaking.
however, even those who jailbreak don't even bother doing it.

who wants to have hard drives hanging off their mobile devices? it
makes the devices non-mobile. it's stupid.

S'funny. I have a hard drive and some stuff even larger hanging of my
iPad whenever I back it up, synchronise it etc. Come to think of it, I
have even more stuff hanging off it when I plug it into the wall of my
house when I want to charge. You want to try walking around with a
house attached, especially when you are inside the house!

But I don't mind my my mobile device's non-mobility for the duration
of those task.

it's not worth the bother to support. there are far more important
things to do than satisfy a couple of people who don't understand
mobile devices.

"Don't understand" = "Want's to do somethhing you don't want to do"

mobile devices are different than laptops. having hard drives hanging
off of a mobile device makes it non-mobile. it's a stupid idea on its
face. there's no point in implementing something that's stupid.

Not for you, obviously, but PeterN sees some point in it. Who are you
to say he's wrong?

this may come to you as a surprise, but apple did not design the ipad
just for peter.

Or for you.

they designed the ipad for common use cases. they did not design it for
every possible use case under the sun, something which is incredibly
stupid. that's a recipe for failure.

what's also stupid is trying to use a device for something it was not
intended and then ranting how it's a subpar device because of some
niche use case is not fulfilled. there are better solutions for what he
wants to do. nothing wrong with that. no device can do everything
perfectly.

like i said, if you want to move a piano you something designed to move
large heavy objects, namely a truck and a couple of helpers too.

what you *don't* do is try to figure out how to fit a piano into a car.
a car was never designed to move pianos. maybe it can be done in some
bizarre edge cases, but it's not going to be a pleasant experience. a
car is the *wrong* solution.

Some enterprising person invented the towing hitch.

I suspect you would have just stood there and said "You are crazy for
wanting to do that".
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 10/3/2013 6:45 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

That was my point. If the port doesn't have full USB functionality, and
then it's not USB.

But USB functionality does not include software to support each or any
of the zillions of different devices which may be plugged into the
port. The provision of the software is up to the manufacturer of the
hardware (in this case, Apple).

that is correct.

not supporting a particular device does not mean it's not usb compliant.

OK Prove that it is compliant.

the burden is on you to prove that it's not. all existing evidence
shows that it is compliant, which everyone except you can see.

you're the one who claims it's not compliant and is fabricating things
apple said about it. in other words, bull****.

IOW you cannot prove it is a USB port. I sent you a link, that you ignored.

Now show me one piece of Apple literature that says the lightning
connector on the iPad is a USB port.

--
PeterN

On 10/3/2013 6:45 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

That was my point. If the port doesn't have full USB functionality, and
then it's not USB.

But USB functionality does not include software to support each or any
of the zillions of different devices which may be plugged into the
port. The provision of the software is up to the manufacturer of the
hardware (in this case, Apple).

True. but isn't there a standard. However, nospam is insisting that the
Apple connector port is USB, when Apple say's it isn't .

they don't say that. stop making up stuff.


If you were present when I spoke to the Apple people, you could say I'm
wrong.
Either prove that the connector port is USB, or STFU

--
PeterN

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

At the moment it's an impossible use case. That makes it extremely
uncommon.

it's not impossible, as hd support can be done via jailbreaking.
however, even those who jailbreak don't even bother doing it.

who wants to have hard drives hanging off their mobile devices? it
makes the devices non-mobile. it's stupid.

S'funny. I have a hard drive and some stuff even larger hanging of my
iPad whenever I back it up, synchronise it etc.

no you don't.

what you might have is an ipad plugged into a computer's usb port
(since it supports usb), and the *computer* has a hard drive attached
to *it*. backups and syncing is done via software on the computer,
namely itunes.

but you don't need to do that. you can backup and sync *without*
tethering it to a computer.

apple added wifi syncing a couple of years ago because people didn't
want to plug it into a computer all the time, for the reason i gave.

they also added icloud backups which makes it even easier since you
don't need a computer or a hard drive at all (itunes has to be running
for wifi sync). it's all automatic, as it should be.

Come to think of it, I
have even more stuff hanging off it when I plug it into the wall of my
house when I want to charge. You want to try walking around with a
house attached, especially when you are inside the house!

charging obviously needs to be tethered, but it can be done when the
ipad is *not* in use, such as overnight.

ipads last well in excess of a day on battery in continuous use (which
means several days in typical use) so there's almost never a reason to
charge it while actually using it.

in other words, the lack of mobility while charging is a non-issue.

on the other hand, plugging in and using a hard drive, assuming it was
possible, would only be done when using the device. plugging in a hard
drive when not using the ipad, such as overnight for charging, makes
even less sense than it already does.

But I don't mind my my mobile device's non-mobility for the duration
of those task.

you personally might not, but most people do.

that's why apple added wifi and icloud backups. in fact, *not* wanting
to tether the device to do a backup was a highly requested feature.
it's obvious that people *don't* want to tether it. it's a mobile
device.

it's not worth the bother to support. there are far more important
things to do than satisfy a couple of people who don't understand
mobile devices.

"Don't understand" = "Want's to do somethhing you don't want to do"

or more accurately, 'is trying to get it to do things for which it was
not designed and wondering why it isn't working.'

mobile devices are different than laptops. having hard drives hanging
off of a mobile device makes it non-mobile. it's a stupid idea on its
face. there's no point in implementing something that's stupid.

Not for you, obviously, but PeterN sees some point in it. Who are you
to say he's wrong?

this may come to you as a surprise, but apple did not design the ipad
just for peter.

Or for you.

i never said it was designed for me. it's designed for the masses.

that means there is a small number of people for whom another product
would be a better choice.

they designed the ipad for common use cases. they did not design it for
every possible use case under the sun, something which is incredibly
stupid. that's a recipe for failure.

what's also stupid is trying to use a device for something it was not
intended and then ranting how it's a subpar device because of some
niche use case is not fulfilled. there are better solutions for what he
wants to do. nothing wrong with that. no device can do everything
perfectly.

like i said, if you want to move a piano you something designed to move
large heavy objects, namely a truck and a couple of helpers too.

what you *don't* do is try to figure out how to fit a piano into a car.
a car was never designed to move pianos. maybe it can be done in some
bizarre edge cases, but it's not going to be a pleasant experience. a
car is the *wrong* solution.

Some enterprising person invented the towing hitch.

cars don't come with towing hitches.

that means you have to add a hitch to the car, which also must be done
properly to not damage the car and not come off unexpectedly (i.e.,
have a mechanic do it).

you also have to get a trailer suitable to hold a piano (the smaller
ones probably aren't) and be sure the car can tow the weight of the
trailer+piano. not all cars can.

you also have to be able to drive an articulating vehicle, something
that's not as easy as a truck, especially on hills and curves.

I suspect you would have just stood there and said "You are crazy for
wanting to do that".

i would hire piano movers and let them do it. they know how to
efficiently move a piano without damaging it. i do not, nor do i know
anyone who does.

and guess what - they won't show up in a car with a tow hitch. they
will show up with a truck.

i wonder why that is.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

That was my point. If the port doesn't have full USB functionality, and
then it's not USB.

But USB functionality does not include software to support each or any
of the zillions of different devices which may be plugged into the
port. The provision of the software is up to the manufacturer of the
hardware (in this case, Apple).

that is correct.

not supporting a particular device does not mean it's not usb compliant.

OK Prove that it is compliant.

the burden is on you to prove that it's not. all existing evidence
shows that it is compliant, which everyone except you can see.

you're the one who claims it's not compliant and is fabricating things
apple said about it. in other words, bull****.

IOW you cannot prove it is a USB port. I sent you a link, that you ignored.

i didn't ignore it.

i said it's nothing more than someone on a public forum saying it
doesn't have usb. that is *not* an official statement and that person
is not speaking in any official capacity.

it's like citing wikipedia as an authoritative source.

Now show me one piece of Apple literature that says the lightning
connector on the iPad is a USB port.

show me one piece of apple literature that says it isn't. you claim
apple told you that, so they must have such a document. absent that,
you're blowing smoke.

the mere fact that the ipad shows up in the usb device tree is proof
(and i doubt you know what that means).

In article , PeterN
wrote:

That was my point. If the port doesn't have full USB functionality, and
then it's not USB.

But USB functionality does not include software to support each or any
of the zillions of different devices which may be plugged into the
port. The provision of the software is up to the manufacturer of the
hardware (in this case, Apple).

True. but isn't there a standard. However, nospam is insisting that the
Apple connector port is USB, when Apple say's it isn't .

they don't say that. stop making up stuff.

If you were present when I spoke to the Apple people, you could say I'm
wrong.

i can say you're wrong because you are wrong. simple concept.

and who are these 'apple people' anyway ? are they hardware engineers
on the ipad team? (no).

Either prove that the connector port is USB, or STFU

either cite an official document where apple says "there is no usb on
an ipad" or stfu.

and what happened to eod??

anyway, i already explained what the port is and is not. you haven't
any clue and can't admit you are wrong either.