Tech Support?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

just because the lightning port is more capable and better designed
than a microusb port doesn't change the fact that the ipad is not a usb
compliant device.

a microusb port couldn't do what is needed. apple had to make a better
one.

And a very clever one. It's a port which can emulate a large number of
connections if you use the appropriate external device.

and very future proof.

And not USB in itself.

the plug is a superset of usb.

In article , PeterN
wrote:


Not true, if you apply that logic, the iPod connecter is not aUSB port,
yet nospam says it is.

i never said the connector was a usb port. you asked if the ipad is a
usb device, and it is.

you are also confused about usb host versus peripheral. there's a
difference. the ipad is a usb peripheral, not a usb host, although it
can do some host functions.

an android tablet with a microusb port would not allow you to connect a
hard drive either. it too is a usb *perhipheral*, not a host.

you can't connect multiple usb peripherals together without a host,
which is one reason why what you're wanting to do makes no sense.

In article , Sandman
wrote:

I use a Wacom Cintiq, that has a fat cable coming out of its back that
in turn splits into a power plug, a video plug and... an USB plug. The
Cintiq doesn't have a USB *port* but is USB compliant.

there are also bus-powered hard drives with a dual cable to sap power
from two ports because one usb port can't source enough power. not only
is a dual cable not usb compliant, but neither is the hard drive since
it requires more power than usb can legitimately source. i don't see
anyone bitching about that.

This goes way back. Pretty much *no* phones back in the day had an
actual USB port on them, but many could sync over USB, with a special
cable, not unlike the lightning cable. One of the very first ones I used
where the sync cable for my Palm V, or the sync dock.

those cables were not cheap.

some of those phones also had a non-standard headphone jack, often
combined with the above cable.

doesn't change the internals though.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

also keep in mind that replacing brakes is cheaper than replacing a
transmission.

Not always to the end user.
Transmissions are covered by the warranty, brakes are not.

not all cars have warranties, and there is probably a clause in there
for misuse anyway.

besides, a brake job is relatively quick and some people can even do it
themselves. a transmission job is not quick, warranty or otherwise, and
very unlikely to be done by a backyard mechanic.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

How do I run iTunes without a computer.

exactly my point.

you have it connected to a computer, not a hard drive.

iTunes is the subject.

no, the subject is whether an ipad is usb compliant or not.

don't try to change the subject.

I'm not changing the subject. I'm trying to get an answer to the
question just six lines above "How do I run I tunes without a
computer?"

you don't. that much should be obvious.

So obvious that you don't have the courage to answer what should be a
quite straight forward question.

so obvious that it doesn't need to be asked, but nevertheless i
answered it anyway.

What's the range of the iPad's WiFi link.

depends on the wifi network.

Whatever it is I am still effectively tethered to the computer.

you aren't tethered when on wifi. tether means cable.

Running your own unique word meanings again?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethering

"Tethering refers to connecting one device to another. In the
context of mobile phones or Internet tablets, tethering allows
sharing the Internet connection of the phone or tablet with other
devices such as laptops. Connection of the phone or tablet with
other devices can be done over wireless LAN (Wi-Fi), over
Bluetooth or by physical connection using a cable, for example
through USB."

"If tethering is done over Wi-Fi, the feature may be branded as a
Mobile Hotspot."

this may come to you as surprise, but words can have more than one
meaning.

What! Tethering does not mean "connecting one device to another"? You
surprise me. What does it mean to you in the context of iPads and
computers?

tethering a device can mean two things, tethered to a computer via a
cable or tethered to a mobile hotspot acting as an internet gateway.

I need to help you with your reading again.

"In the context of mobile phones or Internet tablets, tethering
allows sharing the Internet connection of the phone or tablet with
other devices such as laptops. Connection of the phone or tablet
with other devices can be done over wireless LAN (Wi-Fi), over
Bluetooth or by physical connection using a cable ... ".

that's not what you're doing, so it's irrelevant.

An iPad can be tethered to a computer by a "wireless LAN (Wi-Fi)", but
I'm sure you really know that.

wifi is *not* considered tethering, except when done with a mobile
hotspot as you describe above, which is *not* what you're doing.

as i said, words have various meanings depending on context.

i already gave the example of a camera tethered to a computer, which is
done, not surprisingly, by a cable.

wifi-only ipads would need to do the latter, but any device can do the
former.

a camera that directly sends its output to a computer over a cable is
called tethered, and it uses a cable:

http://diyphotography.net/introduction-tethered-shooting
Usually, the camera and computer are connected by cable, hence
tethering.

in other words, my use of the word tether is correct, and you are once
again, arguing over nothing.

... and when using Wi-Fi to update (or whatever) an iPad one is
effectively tethered to the computer. This is the point I previously
made which you are so reluctant to acknowledge.

'effectively tethered' = semantic twisting.

it's not tethered.

when on wifi, you are free to roam *anywhere* you want, as long as you
are within range of the wifi network, which depending on how you set up
your wifi network, can be a substantial distance away.

in other words, you can go to any room in your house and even outside
in the yard, possibly as far as a neighbor's house, all while still
connected to your own wifi network, and with a settings toggle, could
even be anywhere in the world.

that's *not* what any normal person would call being tethered.

however, wireless has not totally replaced cords. yet.

you are once again, nitpicking inconsequential details just to argue.

I'm trying to (hopelessly) point out to you the inconsistencies in
what you are saying.

there aren't any inconsistencies other than the ones you dream up by
nitpicking every word. that's why you are failing at it.

Well, have laboriously got to the point where you acknowledge that
when updating via iTunes an iPad is effectively tethered to computer,
even when the updating is done by Wi-Fi.

it's not 'effectively tethered'.

it's multiple devices on the same wifi network.

that is *very* different than being at the end of a 6 foot cable.

But I want to use my iPad at night!

then charge it during the day.

I didn't say 'only at night'.

I want to use my iPad anytime both night and day.

when do you sleep? do you sleep? that's when you charge it.

To late. It's gone flat before then.

you use an ipad 10+ hours a day, non-stop?

Between me and my wife, we can easily top that.

then you're an edge case. most people don't use up the 10+ hour
capacity in one day.

there are ipad cases with extended batteries in them. they don't sell
that well because ipad battery life is already incredibly good, but
there are a few users who need more. you might find such a case to be
useful, but it does add some bulk to the ipad, since it contains a
battery too.

But I may be awake when charging becomes necessary!

you might be. so what?

Then I'm tied to the wall of my house.

only for a brief time.

you do spend time indoors, do you not? maybe sitting on the couch
watching tv? plug it in then. or, as i said, plug it in and then go to
sleep.

But I want to go away.

you still can. the point is you are at home at some point, so that's
when you charge it.

or you bring the power adapter with you (it's small) and plug it in
when you get to wherever you're going, and if you're traveling by car
(or boat or plane) plug it into the 12v socket while en route.

All it requires is the right app and PeterN
can supply the necessary external hardware.

if you're so sure it can be done and so sure that there's a big market
for this particular feature, why don't you write such an app?

Because _I_ have no desire for such an app.

then why are you ranting about how important such an app is?

But I'm not. If I'm ranting (which I doubt) its about the way you will
twist and turn in your attempts to avoid acknowledging that PeterN's
complaint may have some merit.r

it has merit only to him. it does not have merit to the vast majority
of users.

apple did not make the ipad for just him, they made it for the masses
who have no interest in such a feature, so they concentrated on
features that are widely used.

How do you know? Have you been flying again?

by paying attention to the industry and looking at analytics data.

What data. Do tell.

here's one, from mixpanel, an analytics company, showing what people
actually do with their tablets, both ipad and android:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/S6...MveDe_5DT7u9BK
9I_UiSDdElSe9EaSRc64AnWJEfqlpEuey_k7245acwOiht02Q l6C6mExh6hRgihh_g5h4w_oOcTOn
lt

Do keep up. That page deals with what people actually do.

exactly!

what people actually do is why it's not supported. very few people
would use it if it was!

apple's resources are much better spent working on features that many
users will use, not obscure use cases.

as i said before, the ipad is not designed to do every single possible
task (a recipe for disaster). it's designed to do a lot of things and
do them well, but there are some things that are not suited for it.

PeterN's
problem is what he want's to do but can't.

he can still do it, but with a different product. no big deal.

nobody said an ipad will work for every situation for every user.

that's nothing more than a strawman.

You see this as a problem which you wish to avoid. Other people would
see it as an opportunity.

most people don't care. they realize what the ipad is good at and what
it's not good at and choose accordingly.

That's why so many apps have been written to do things which were not
built into the original device.

none of those can add features that are impossible to do.

What's impossible in what PeterN wants to do?

connecting two hard drives and a card reader to an ipad and then moving
photos between them.

But that's not what he wanted. See Message-ID:
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 19:43:13 -0400
in which he wrote:

"Indeed, I considred using a iPad to transfer files from my CF
cards toa portable hard drive. The Apple people told me it
couldn't be done. it does have s conversion unit, but
that doesn't function like USB."

... and its all gone from there.

in another post he said he wanted to connect two hard drives and a card
reader. i'd find it but this thread already has way too many posts.

not that it matters, since the number of hard drives is irrelevant. he
can't do it with one, two or seventeen hard drives.

in other words, a car is not a good choice for moving a piano, as i
said.

Maybe so, but I've done it.

not without adding equipment to the car, you didn't.

Quite true, but I've still done it.

i didn't say it was impossible. i said a car is not designed for the
task, and it isn't.

My car doesn't care within reason what it is towing. I've done many
hundreds of miles towing a three ton 22' boat and trailer.

so what? it's not designed to do that. that's why you have to add parts
to be able to tow something, and not all cars can tow stuff, as i said
before. a small car can easily overheat when towing.

But it's not possible to write a suitable one for the iPad today, so
you say.

there were plenty of things that were not possible for older computers
either.

everything has limitations.

Why can't what PeterN wants be done? What functionality is missing
from an iPad?

no functionality is missing from an ipad.

But you argue it can't do what PeterN would like it to do.

i'm not arguing.

i'm telling you it can't do what he wants to do and he needs to buy a
different product, which he says he did.

*you're* the one who is arguing.

the ipad is not designed to do what he wants. other products are. no
big deal. that doesn't mean something is missing.

So, again, what functionality is missing from an iPad the lack of
which prevents an iPad from doing what PeterN wants?

nothing is missing.

it does what it's designed to do. it doesn't do what it's not designed
to do.

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:30:44 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

How do I run iTunes without a computer.

exactly my point.

you have it connected to a computer, not a hard drive.

iTunes is the subject.

no, the subject is whether an ipad is usb compliant or not.

don't try to change the subject.

I'm not changing the subject. I'm trying to get an answer to the
question just six lines above "How do I run I tunes without a
computer?"

you don't. that much should be obvious.

So obvious that you don't have the courage to answer what should be a
quite straight forward question.

so obvious that it doesn't need to be asked, but nevertheless i
answered it anyway.

Bull****.

Quote the exact text.


What's the range of the iPad's WiFi link.

depends on the wifi network.

Whatever it is I am still effectively tethered to the computer.

you aren't tethered when on wifi. tether means cable.

Running your own unique word meanings again?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethering

"Tethering refers to connecting one device to another. In the
context of mobile phones or Internet tablets, tethering allows
sharing the Internet connection of the phone or tablet with other
devices such as laptops. Connection of the phone or tablet with
other devices can be done over wireless LAN (Wi-Fi), over
Bluetooth or by physical connection using a cable, for example
through USB."

"If tethering is done over Wi-Fi, the feature may be branded as a
Mobile Hotspot."

this may come to you as surprise, but words can have more than one
meaning.

What! Tethering does not mean "connecting one device to another"? You
surprise me. What does it mean to you in the context of iPads and
computers?

tethering a device can mean two things, tethered to a computer via a
cable or tethered to a mobile hotspot acting as an internet gateway.

I need to help you with your reading again.

"In the context of mobile phones or Internet tablets, tethering
allows sharing the Internet connection of the phone or tablet with
other devices such as laptops. Connection of the phone or tablet
with other devices can be done over wireless LAN (Wi-Fi), over
Bluetooth or by physical connection using a cable ... ".

that's not what you're doing, so it's irrelevant.

What then am I doing when I back up and synchronise my iPad?

An iPad can be tethered to a computer by a "wireless LAN (Wi-Fi)", but
I'm sure you really know that.

wifi is *not* considered tethering, except when done with a mobile
hotspot as you describe above, which is *not* what you're doing.

What you really mean is that you don't want to consider it tethering
for the purpose of this argument. Of course it's tethering.

as i said, words have various meanings depending on context.

I prefer tuna.

i already gave the example of a camera tethered to a computer, which is
done, not surprisingly, by a cable.

I raised a question about the tethering of an iPad to a computer
which, not surprisingly, can be done without using cables.

wifi-only ipads would need to do the latter, but any device can do the
former.

a camera that directly sends its output to a computer over a cable is
called tethered, and it uses a cable:

http://diyphotography.net/introduction-tethered-shooting
Usually, the camera and computer are connected by cable, hence
tethering.

in other words, my use of the word tether is correct, and you are once
again, arguing over nothing.

... and when using Wi-Fi to update (or whatever) an iPad one is
effectively tethered to the computer. This is the point I previously
made which you are so reluctant to acknowledge.

'effectively tethered' = semantic twisting.

Bull****. Anyway, kit's good to know where you are balking.

it's not tethered.

when on wifi, you are free to roam *anywhere* you want, as long as you
are within range of the wifi network, which depending on how you set up
your wifi network, can be a substantial distance away.

Neverthelessyou reain tethered by invisible bonds to your base.

in other words, you can go to any room in your house and even outside
in the yard, possibly as far as a neighbor's house, all while still
connected to your own wifi network, and with a settings toggle, could
even be anywhere in the world.

I can think of lots of places where a settings toggle would be of
absolutely no use to you.

that's *not* what any normal person would call being tethered.

however, wireless has not totally replaced cords. yet.

you are once again, nitpicking inconsequential details just to argue.

I'm trying to (hopelessly) point out to you the inconsistencies in
what you are saying.

there aren't any inconsistencies other than the ones you dream up by
nitpicking every word. that's why you are failing at it.

Well, have laboriously got to the point where you acknowledge that
when updating via iTunes an iPad is effectively tethered to computer,
even when the updating is done by Wi-Fi.

it's not 'effectively tethered'.

it's multiple devices on the same wifi network.

Tethered to the same network.

that is *very* different than being at the end of a 6 foot cable.

How about a 6 foot piece of string? Or is there some functionality
missing?

But I want to use my iPad at night!

then charge it during the day.

I didn't say 'only at night'.

I want to use my iPad anytime both night and day.

when do you sleep? do you sleep? that's when you charge it.

To late. It's gone flat before then.

you use an ipad 10+ hours a day, non-stop?

Between me and my wife, we can easily top that.

then you're an edge case. most people don't use up the 10+ hour
capacity in one day.

I don't care whether I'm an edge case or not. I'm me.

there are ipad cases with extended batteries in them. they don't sell
that well because ipad battery life is already incredibly good, but
there are a few users who need more. you might find such a case to be
useful, but it does add some bulk to the ipad, since it contains a
battery too.

But I may be awake when charging becomes necessary!

you might be. so what?

Then I'm tied to the wall of my house.

only for a brief time.

you do spend time indoors, do you not? maybe sitting on the couch
watching tv? plug it in then. or, as i said, plug it in and then go to
sleep.

But I want to go away.

you still can. the point is you are at home at some point, so that's
when you charge it.

or you bring the power adapter with you (it's small) and plug it in
when you get to wherever you're going, and if you're traveling by car
(or boat or plane) plug it into the 12v socket while en route.

All it requires is the right app and PeterN
can supply the necessary external hardware.

if you're so sure it can be done and so sure that there's a big market
for this particular feature, why don't you write such an app?

Because _I_ have no desire for such an app.

then why are you ranting about how important such an app is?

But I'm not. If I'm ranting (which I doubt) its about the way you will
twist and turn in your attempts to avoid acknowledging that PeterN's
complaint may have some merit.r

it has merit only to him. it does not have merit to the vast majority
of users.

Each user is an individual.

apple did not make the ipad for just him, they made it for the masses
who have no interest in such a feature, so they concentrated on
features that are widely used.

How do you know? Have you been flying again?

by paying attention to the industry and looking at analytics data.

What data. Do tell.

here's one, from mixpanel, an analytics company, showing what people
actually do with their tablets, both ipad and android:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/S6...MveDe_5DT7u9BK
9I_UiSDdElSe9EaSRc64AnWJEfqlpEuey_k7245acwOiht02Q l6C6mExh6hRgihh_g5h4w_oOcTOn
lt

Do keep up.

exactly!

Here I have caught you deliberately twisting what I wrote.

what people actually do is why it's not supported. very few people
would use it if it was!

apple's resources are much better spent working on features that many
users will use, not obscure use cases.

I ask you again: what special functionality within the iPad does the
capability required by PeterN actually require?

as i said before, the ipad is not designed to do every single possible
task (a recipe for disaster). it's designed to do a lot of things and
do them well, but there are some things that are not suited for it.

PeterN's
problem is what he want's to do but can't.

he can still do it, but with a different product. no big deal.

Why can't he do it with an iPad?

nobody said an ipad will work for every situation for every user.

that's nothing more than a strawman.

Of your construction.

You see this as a problem which you wish to avoid. Other people would
see it as an opportunity.

most people don't care. they realize what the ipad is good at and what
it's not good at and choose accordingly.

That's why so many apps have been written to do things which were not
built into the original device.

none of those can add features that are impossible to do.

What's impossible in what PeterN wants to do?

connecting two hard drives and a card reader to an ipad and then moving
photos between them.

But that's not what he wanted. See Message-ID:
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2013 19:43:13 -0400
in which he wrote:

"Indeed, I considred using a iPad to transfer files from my CF
cards toa portable hard drive. The Apple people told me it
couldn't be done. it does have s conversion unit, but
that doesn't function like USB."

... and its all gone from there.

in another post he said he wanted to connect two hard drives and a card
reader. i'd find it but this thread already has way too many posts.

not that it matters, since the number of hard drives is irrelevant. he
can't do it with one, two or seventeen hard drives.

in other words, a car is not a good choice for moving a piano, as i
said.

Maybe so, but I've done it.

not without adding equipment to the car, you didn't.

Quite true, but I've still done it.

i didn't say it was impossible. i said a car is not designed for the
task, and it isn't.

My car doesn't care within reason what it is towing. I've done many
hundreds of miles towing a three ton 22' boat and trailer.

so what? it's not designed to do that. that's why you have to add parts
to be able to tow something, and not all cars can tow stuff, as i said
before. a small car can easily overheat when towing.

But it's not possible to write a suitable one for the iPad today, so
you say.

there were plenty of things that were not possible for older computers
either.

everything has limitations.

Why can't what PeterN wants be done? What functionality is missing
from an iPad?

no functionality is missing from an ipad.

But you argue it can't do what PeterN would like it to do.

i'm not arguing.

i'm telling you it can't do what he wants to do and he needs to buy a
different product, which he says he did.

*you're* the one who is arguing.

the ipad is not designed to do what he wants. other products are. no
big deal. that doesn't mean something is missing.

So, again, what functionality is missing from an iPad the lack of
which prevents an iPad from doing what PeterN wants?

nothing is missing.

it does what it's designed to do. it doesn't do what it's not designed
to do.

This thread might have been terminated long ago if you could explain
what the iPad is lacking that prevents PeterN doing what he wanted.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:30:34 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , PeterN
wrote:


Not true, if you apply that logic, the iPod connecter is not aUSB port,
yet nospam says it is.

i never said the connector was a usb port. you asked if the ipad is a
usb device, and it is.

you are also confused about usb host versus peripheral. there's a
difference. the ipad is a usb peripheral, not a usb host, although it
can do some host functions.

an android tablet with a microusb port would not allow you to connect a
hard drive either. it too is a usb *perhipheral*, not a host.

you can't connect multiple usb peripherals together without a host,
which is one reason why what you're wanting to do makes no sense.

Thank you.

At last.

I think that's what we all needed to understand.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:30:25 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I use a Wacom Cintiq, that has a fat cable coming out of its back that
in turn splits into a power plug, a video plug and... an USB plug. The
Cintiq doesn't have a USB *port* but is USB compliant.

there are also bus-powered hard drives with a dual cable to sap power
from two ports because one usb port can't source enough power. not only
is a dual cable not usb compliant, but neither is the hard drive since
it requires more power than usb can legitimately source. i don't see
anyone bitching about that.

Lots of devices (e.g. printers, scanners, external HDDs) require more
power than can be supplied by USB. Yet they use USB connections. Are
you really saying these devices are not USB compliant?

no, those are usually self-powered.

Right. So that deals with your objection in the second paragraph of
this article.

for self-powered yes. for bus-powered no.

bus-powered usb hard drives do use more power than usb can provide,
which is why they sometimes include the dual head cables, and yes, that
means they are not 100% compliant. usb can source 500ma and the spin-up
current is more than that.

so if you're going to argue that an ipad is not usb compliant just
because it has a lightning port rather than a microusb port, despite
including a lightning-usb cable making it a non-issue, then you have to
agree that numerous other usb devices are also not compliant, namely
all usb bus-powered hard drives. why single out ipads?

since usb bus-powered drives are so common, usb ports can source more
power so you don't need the clumsy dual cable, but that actually makes
the usb port non-compliant. i don't see anyone bitching about that
either.

some cameras have a custom cable to go between its custom connector and
a computer's usb port. where's the bitching about that?

Who is bitching?

you've posted many times about how the ipad is not compliant because it
uses a more capable port than microusb.

That's not bitching about the iPad. If there is any bitching its about
your reluctance to admit the obvious.

quite the opposite.

you and others refuse to admit that the ipad is a fully compliant usb
2.0 device. apple says so, the usb-if says so and millions of users who
happily connect an ipad to a computer via usb say so.

and if you've ever seen usb 3.0 microusb ports, you'll be glad apple
came up with lightning. talk about a horrible plug. ugh.

Irrelevant.

not really.

some mobile devices now have usb 3, which at this point is stupid, but
as technology progresses, it will be important.

lightning is ready for that.

And Lightning is already a 250V 50Hz capable port. I find that very
useful.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:30:27 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

it can be usb 2 and can even be usb 3 ...

But not of itself. It requires a variety of hardware to act as an
exterenal USB adaptor.

which is included, so it's a non-issue.

Squink. Whether or not its included is not the issue. The issue is
whether or not it's necessary and the answer is 'it is'.

so what?

it does not make a compliant device non-compliant.

Of course not. It makes a non-compliant device compliant!

no it doesn't. the ipad is *already* compliant.

the cable doesn't change anything. it does not add usb drivers or
functionality to ios that is not already there.

all the cable does is make the physical connection. everything else is
done, whether or not you even *have* a cable, let alone connect it to
anything.

The lightning port will not accept USB unless it is set up by the
adaptor in the cable. Sure you can treat the cable as a USB connection
but not all the USB functionality is in the iPad. Some of it is in the
plug on the end of the cable. That's why I say the Lightning port is
not USB compliant on it's own. Some of the firmware required to make
the connection USB compliant is not contained within the iPad. Take
the cable and adaptor away and you are left with a bare Lightning port
which is ready to be any one of a number of different things according
to what is plugged in to it.

feel free to dig out a soldering iron and replace the lightning port
with a microusb port. now you have the 'correct' port on an ipad, and
without a warranty.

assuming you didn't **** it up in the process, it will work the same as
before. plug it into a computer's usb port and sync.

"It will work the same as before". Will it recognize and properly
connect to an, for example, HDMI cable?

it will work the same as before with regards to usb.

you didn't say it had to be usb compliant *and* hdmi compliant.

stop moving the goalposts.

I'm not moving the goal posts. I'm discussing what is already there.
The Lightning port can handle any one of a number of different
connections. All it requires is that the plug incororates the
appropriate adaptor.

the physical characteristics of the port do not matter.

... (which doesn't make sense for
idevices at this time, but it might in the future). it can be used for
audio or video too.

think of it as a superset of usb, hdmi and others.

I am sure you also know that Apple sell a Lightning to USB adaptor.

they sell a lightning-usb cable, and when connected to a usb host, the
ipad is a fully compliant usb peripheral.

Dead right, and without that adaptor it cannot connect to USB. The
Lightning port is NOT USB compliant in any sense of the term.

the physical port may not be a standard usb port, but that doesn't
change anything.

the ipad is still a usb device and always has been. that's what
matters.

It's also an HDMI and heaven knows what (literally).


http://theiphonewiki.com/wiki/Lightn...igital_AV_Adap
ter

* Lightning is adaptive.
* All 8 pins are used for signals, and all or most can be
switched to be used for power.
* The outer plug shell is used as ground reference and connected
to the device shell.
* At least one (probably at most two) of the pins is used for
detecting what sort of plug is plugged in.
* All plugs have to contain a controller/driver chip to implement
the “adaptive” thing.
* The device watches for a momentary short on all pins (by the
leading edge of the plug) to detect plug insertion/removal.
* The pins on the plug are deactivated until after the plug is
fully inserted, when a wake-up signal on one of the pins cues
the chip inside the plug. This avoids any shorting hazard
while the plug isn’t inside the connector.
* The controller/driver chip tells the device what type it is,
and for cases like the Lightning-to-USB cable whether a
charger (that sends power) or a device (that needs power) is
on the other end.
* The device can then switch the other pins between the SoC’s
data lines or the power circuitry, as needed in each case.
* Once everything is properly set up, the controller/driver chip
gets digital signals from the SoC and converts them – via
serial/parallel, ADC/DAC, differential drivers or whatever –
to whatever is needed by the interface on the other end of the
adapter or cable. It could even re-encode these signals to
some other format to use fewer wires, gain noise-immunity or
whatever, and re-decode them on the other end; it’s all
flexible. It could even convert to optical.

That doesn't sound like a USB device to any sane person. At the best,
with the aid of external hardware. it can emulate USB. It is not USB
compliant of itself.

lightning does not emulate anything.

when you attach a usb cable, it uses two of the pins for usb data.

Only data. What about power, whether coming or going?

what about it? obviously it supports power, since that's how you charge
it, by plugging it into a usb port.

when you do that, the ipad negotiates for power as any compliant usb
device does.

do you even think about what nonsense you are writing?

when
you attach something else, it repurposes as many pins as needed for
whatever the something else is.

that means it's future-proof. whenever something new becomes popular,
lightning will be able to support it. the previous dock connector was
nowhere near as flexible and they kept repurposing pins.

you're trying to prove that the ipad is not usb compliant because it
uses a more capable port that can act as a standard usb port along with
a whole lot more.

Only with an external adaptor.

so what?

the ipad is usb compliant and can connect to any computer's usb port.

But only with an external adaptor.

no. it's a cable, not an adaptor. there's a difference.

meanwhile, the rest of the world happily plugs their ipad, iphone or
ipod touch into a usb port on a computer using the included usb cable
(or another that they bought), or they get a camera connection kit and
plug in their camera or card reader. it's *all* done using usb.

As is made clear in my quote above, none of these will work without
the use of the correct external adaptor.

so what?

If it was USB you wouldn't need an external adaptor to deal with the
electical connectons.

you need to use the included cable. every usb device requires a cable.

But not every USB cable requires a built in adaptor.

where you do need an adapter is to make the ipad, which is normally a
usb *peripheral*, function as a usb *host*.

you also need to get an adapter with a usb on the go device (and that's
what the camera connection kit is doing) to switch between peripheral
and host. however, not all usb devices support usb on the go.

the ipad is a usb device, as the screen shot proved.

But only with an external adaptor.

nope.

it's compliant without anything attached to it, just unconnected.

my usb hard drive is compliant while it's sitting in a box just as much
as when it's connected to a computer.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2013.10.06 17:29 , Eric Stevens wrote:

And Lightning is already a 250V 50Hz capable port. I find that very
useful.

I hope not. The charger (wall wart) may take up to 250 AC, but it's
output to the device is a nominal 5V for power.

--
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a piece of **** by the clean end."
-Unknown