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Loading film onto reel problems



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 28th 05, 03:22 AM
Ron Purdue
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Default Loading film onto reel problems

I have bad luck developing a roll of 35mm film on the reel tonight. Is the
problem is a bent 35mm film reel? The film in some places touches each
other, how do I fix the problem? I hope to have better luck in the future,
thanks.


  #2  
Old January 28th 05, 04:59 AM
raoul
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In article , Ron
Purdue wrote:

I have bad luck developing a roll of 35mm film on the reel tonight. Is the
problem is a bent 35mm film reel? The film in some places touches each
other, how do I fix the problem? I hope to have better luck in the future,
thanks.


I am assuming that you were using stainless steel reels. The problme
can be that the sides of the reel are not parallel to one another. If
they are not, it can lead to problems. They can be knocked out of
whack just by dropping them once.

If you choose to use stainless steel reels, get some first class, name
brand reels. Suggestion: Nikor, Hewes, Jobo. The cheaper ones don't
seem to be made with the same precision.

Personally, I like plastic reels. I've had the best luck with them. I
don'ty want to get into a religious war with anyone but that is just my
experience and I have maybe 15-16 plastic reels. I have used the
better quality SS reels and found what I said to be true. The better
quality SS reels work pretty good. The cheap ones don't. After using
the plastic reels for as long as I have, I've seen no practical need to
change to SS reels. However, if you want to use them, go ahead.


  #3  
Old January 28th 05, 05:49 AM
Stefan Patric
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On Thursday 27 January 2005 18:22, Ron Purdue wrote:

I have bad luck developing a roll of 35mm film on the reel tonight. Is
the problem is a bent 35mm film reel? The film in some places touches
each other, how do I fix the problem? I hope to have better luck in
the future, thanks.


I doubt that the reel is the problem. I'd wager that your film loading
technique is. The main cause of loading problems on metal spiral
"Nikkor" type reels is not inserting the film straight and not keeping
it properly positioned while loading. Here's how I do it:

I make sure the open end of the spiral points to the right, before
turning off the lights. In other words, the spiral from the inside out
is a clockwise one, but you'll turn the reel counter-clockwise to load
the film onto it.

After the film is removed from the film cartridge, holding the spool in
the cupped palm of your right hand with the emulsion -- curved -- side
down, extend the film leader with your left hand and holding it between
the thumb and index finger of your right hand, cut the leader off, so
that the film end is perpendicular to the length of the film and not at
an angle. This takes practice to do correctly in the dark. Still
holding the film in your right hand, pick up the reel in your left with
your thumb and second finger on opposites sides of the center hole of
the spiral, turn the reel using the left index finger to feel for the
film "gate" or "clip" in the center of the reel. Once found, and
keeping your index finger in the gate, place the reel vertically on the
darkroom counter -- this is one of the tricks to proper loading -- and
with the right hand feed the end of the film straight in between and
parallel to the sides of the reel until you feel the film end with your
left index finger. Using your left index finger, feed the film end
into the "gate" or clip it to the clip being sure to keep the film
parallel to the sides of the reel. Resting the thumb and index fingers
of your right hand on each side of the reel will help you with this.
Now, here's the other secret to proper film loading on spiral, metal
reels: Using the left index finger to secure the end of the film in
the gate so it doesn't pull out, put tension on the film with the right
hand by pulling the film to the right very slightly, and squeezing the
thumb and index finger together slightly to increase the natural curve
of the film simultaneously turn the reel slightly counterclockwise and
drop the right hand to rest on the counter to "break" the film at the
center of the spiral. This is a quick motion where everything is done
simultaneously. Now keeping the film edges parallel to the sides of
the film reel -- resting your right thumb and index finger on the reel
will help sensing if the film is truly parallel -- and keeping the reel
and your right hand on the counter and tension on the film, rotate the
reel counterclockwise using the left hand to load the film onto the
reel, letting it feed off the spool in your right palm and keeping it
curved slightly between the right thumb and index finger as you do.
When you get to the end of the film spool, cut the film and finish
loading.

If you've done everything correctly, the film should load easily. If
something is wrong, the film will most likely start twisting or going
out of parallel with the sides of the film reel. If this happens,
unspool the film until it is again parallel, apply tension to it as
before, check for parallelness, and countine loading.

Here's the final trick to proper film loading: use an old, useless,
undeveloped roll of film and do all this in the daylight a few dozen
times until you can do it correctly without looking at what you're
doing. Then, do it for real in the dark.

Good Luck....

--
Stefan Patric
NoLife Polymath Group

  #4  
Old January 28th 05, 03:41 PM
bob
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Default

Ron Purdue wrote:
I have bad luck developing a roll of 35mm film on the reel tonight. Is the
problem is a bent 35mm film reel? The film in some places touches each
other, how do I fix the problem? I hope to have better luck in the future,
thanks.




It could be a bent reel, or it could just be a user error. Get a strip
of film (pull one out of a roll) and practice in the light. It can be
difficult to get things rolled perfectly.

The most important part is to get the film inserted straight. When you
have finished, carefully feel the edges of the reel. If the film is
touching in places, it will usually be bunched up somewhere, and you
will feel the film past the edge of the reel. Then you will know you
need to unroll the film and start over.

Bob
  #5  
Old January 28th 05, 03:57 PM
Louie Powell
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Stefan Patric wrote in news:1wjKd.1155$Jt.1070
@fed1read02:

On Thursday 27 January 2005 18:22, Ron Purdue wrote:

I have bad luck developing a roll of 35mm film on the reel tonight. Is
the problem is a bent 35mm film reel? The film in some places touches
each other, how do I fix the problem? I hope to have better luck in
the future, thanks.


I doubt that the reel is the problem.


I would not discount the possibiltiy of a bent spiral. Ron didn't
mention whether the spiral is new or used. It's very common for used
spirals to be bent - just try working in a workshop darkroom! A bent
spiral is exceptionally difficult to load.

I'd wager that your film loading technique is. The main cause of
loading problems on metal spiral "Nikkor" type reels is not inserting
the film straight and not keeping it properly positioned while loading.


Method can be a problem. We don't know how much experience Ron has - a
very good suggestion is to sacrifice a roll of film to learn how to load
a spiral. (In fact, one might observe that either you will sacrifice a
roll of film to learn how to load the spiral with the lights on, or you
will sacrifice several valuable rolls of film with the lights off!)
Seeing what is happening when you are loading that film, and relating
that to the sensory feedback through your fingers, will help you get it
right.

Here's how I do it:

I make sure the open end of the spiral points to the right, before
turning off the lights. In other words, the spiral from the inside out
is a clockwise one, but you'll turn the reel counter-clockwise to load
the film onto it.


They make Fords and Chevy's so purchasers can have a choice. I prefer to
have the open end of the spiral facing left, and turn the reel in the
clockwise direction.


After the film is removed from the film cartridge, holding the spool in
the cupped palm of your right hand with the emulsion -- curved -- side
down, extend the film leader with your left hand and holding it between
the thumb and index finger of your right hand, cut the leader off, so
that the film end is perpendicular to the length of the film and not at
an angle. This takes practice to do correctly in the dark.


Very true - and potentially dangerous to use a scissors in the dark! I
always stop rewinding the film before the end is drawn completely into
the cassette. Then, with the pigtail exposed, I cut the end off with the
light on so I can see what I am doing. I also clip the corners off the
cut end - that makes it easier for the film to slip into the groove
between adjacent wires of a spiral. Actually, I do this in the field
(another good use for a Swiss army knife) as I am changing film in my
camera - it makes it absolutely impossible to subsequently load an
exposed roll of film back into the camera.


Still
holding the film in your right hand, pick up the reel in your left with
your thumb and second finger on opposites sides of the center hole of
the spiral, turn the reel using the left index finger to feel for the
film "gate" or "clip" in the center of the reel. Once found, and
keeping your index finger in the gate, place the reel vertically on the
darkroom counter -- this is one of the tricks to proper loading -- and
with the right hand feed the end of the film straight in between and
parallel to the sides of the reel until you feel the film end with your
left index finger. Using your left index finger, feed the film end
into the "gate" or clip it to the clip being sure to keep the film
parallel to the sides of the reel. Resting the thumb and index fingers
of your right hand on each side of the reel will help you with this.
Now, here's the other secret to proper film loading on spiral, metal
reels: Using the left index finger to secure the end of the film in
the gate so it doesn't pull out, put tension on the film with the right
hand by pulling the film to the right very slightly, and squeezing the
thumb and index finger together slightly to increase the natural curve
of the film simultaneously turn the reel slightly counterclockwise and
drop the right hand to rest on the counter to "break" the film at the
center of the spiral. This is a quick motion where everything is done
simultaneously. Now keeping the film edges parallel to the sides of
the film reel -- resting your right thumb and index finger on the reel
will help sensing if the film is truly parallel -- and keeping the reel
and your right hand on the counter and tension on the film, rotate the
reel counterclockwise using the left hand to load the film onto the
reel, letting it feed off the spool in your right palm and keeping it
curved slightly between the right thumb and index finger as you do.
When you get to the end of the film spool, cut the film and finish
loading.


I hold the film edges between my thumb and middle finger, and hold those
fingers against the outer edge of the spiral. This helps keep the film
oriented properly as it slides into the spiral. Squeeze the film just
enough to have it slip between the two halves of the spiral - if you
squeeze too much, you can cause half-moon shaped fogging of the film,
while if you don't squeeze enough, the film can become "cross threaded"
in the spiral.

I allow my index finger to rest lightly on the back of film as it rolls
into the spiral. The biggest problem in loading a spiral is when one
side of the film jumps out of the track between adjacent wires in the
spiral, basically "cross threading" the spiral. That index finger can
sense when this is happening and allow you to stop, back up a quarter
turn or so, and squeeze the film just a bit more between the thumb and
middle finger to get it back into the correct tracks.

If you've done everything correctly, the film should load easily. If
something is wrong, the film will most likely start twisting or going
out of parallel with the sides of the film reel. If this happens,
unspool the film until it is again parallel, apply tension to it as
before, check for parallelness, and countine loading.

Here's the final trick to proper film loading: use an old, useless,
undeveloped roll of film and do all this in the daylight a few dozen
times until you can do it correctly without looking at what you're
doing. Then, do it for real in the dark.


Absolutely! Excellent advice.

Good Luck....


And remember the famous words of Mark Twain that apply in this situation
- "profanity offers a form of relief denied even to prayer".



  #6  
Old January 28th 05, 04:32 PM
bob
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Louie Powell wrote:

Very true - and potentially dangerous to use a scissors in the dark! I
always stop rewinding the film before the end is drawn completely into
the cassette. Then, with the pigtail exposed, I cut the end off with the


I finally figgured out that if you fire several shots off at the front
of the roll, you can not only cut the pigtail and shape it, but you can
pull some film from the cassette and put the end into the reel with the
lights. Then I roll it onto the reel out of the canister.

If I end up with some serious problem, I can wind the film back into the
canister to troubleshoot (or get another reel, or whatever).

Bob
  #7  
Old January 28th 05, 08:53 PM
PSsquare
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Default

Just an observation about Stefan's post. There are over 40 lines of text
explaining how to load a stainless steel wire reel. I can't image needing
anywhere near that many lines to explain how to load a JOBO plastic reel. It
requires even fewer to explain how to overcome any small problem. As a rank
beginner, I loaded my JOBO plastic the first time out of the box and can
count on my one hand the number of times I had any trouble loading a reel.

So, Ron can fix the problem by getting a reel that is easy to learn.

PSsquare



"Stefan Patric" wrote in message
news:1wjKd.1155$Jt.1070@fed1read02...
On Thursday 27 January 2005 18:22, Ron Purdue wrote:

I have bad luck developing a roll of 35mm film on the reel tonight. Is
the problem is a bent 35mm film reel? The film in some places touches
each other, how do I fix the problem? I hope to have better luck in
the future, thanks.


I doubt that the reel is the problem. I'd wager that your film loading
technique is. The main cause of loading problems on metal spiral
"Nikkor" type reels is not inserting the film straight and not keeping
it properly positioned while loading. Here's how I do it:

I make sure the open end of the spiral points to the right, before
turning off the lights. In other words, the spiral from the inside out
is a clockwise one, but you'll turn the reel counter-clockwise to load
the film onto it.

After the film is removed from the film cartridge, holding the spool in
the cupped palm of your right hand with the emulsion -- curved -- side
down, extend the film leader with your left hand and holding it between
the thumb and index finger of your right hand, cut the leader off, so
that the film end is perpendicular to the length of the film and not at
an angle. This takes practice to do correctly in the dark. Still
holding the film in your right hand, pick up the reel in your left with
your thumb and second finger on opposites sides of the center hole of
the spiral, turn the reel using the left index finger to feel for the
film "gate" or "clip" in the center of the reel. Once found, and
keeping your index finger in the gate, place the reel vertically on the
darkroom counter -- this is one of the tricks to proper loading -- and
with the right hand feed the end of the film straight in between and
parallel to the sides of the reel until you feel the film end with your
left index finger. Using your left index finger, feed the film end
into the "gate" or clip it to the clip being sure to keep the film
parallel to the sides of the reel. Resting the thumb and index fingers
of your right hand on each side of the reel will help you with this.
Now, here's the other secret to proper film loading on spiral, metal
reels: Using the left index finger to secure the end of the film in
the gate so it doesn't pull out, put tension on the film with the right
hand by pulling the film to the right very slightly, and squeezing the
thumb and index finger together slightly to increase the natural curve
of the film simultaneously turn the reel slightly counterclockwise and
drop the right hand to rest on the counter to "break" the film at the
center of the spiral. This is a quick motion where everything is done
simultaneously. Now keeping the film edges parallel to the sides of
the film reel -- resting your right thumb and index finger on the reel
will help sensing if the film is truly parallel -- and keeping the reel
and your right hand on the counter and tension on the film, rotate the
reel counterclockwise using the left hand to load the film onto the
reel, letting it feed off the spool in your right palm and keeping it
curved slightly between the right thumb and index finger as you do.
When you get to the end of the film spool, cut the film and finish
loading.

If you've done everything correctly, the film should load easily. If
something is wrong, the film will most likely start twisting or going
out of parallel with the sides of the film reel. If this happens,
unspool the film until it is again parallel, apply tension to it as
before, check for parallelness, and countine loading.

Here's the final trick to proper film loading: use an old, useless,
undeveloped roll of film and do all this in the daylight a few dozen
times until you can do it correctly without looking at what you're
doing. Then, do it for real in the dark.

Good Luck....

--
Stefan Patric
NoLife Polymath Group



  #8  
Old January 28th 05, 10:59 PM
Andrew Price
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On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:53:44 GMT, "PSsquare"
wrote:

Just an observation about Stefan's post. There are over 40 lines of text
explaining how to load a stainless steel wire reel. I can't image needing
anywhere near that many lines to explain how to load a JOBO plastic reel.


Neither can I. I've often heard how difficult stainless steel reels
can be to load for the unexperienced, and that post confirms it.

It
requires even fewer to explain how to overcome any small problem. As a rank
beginner, I loaded my JOBO plastic the first time out of the box and can
count on my one hand the number of times I had any trouble loading a reel.


I can only agree. The only problems I've ever encountered loading
plastic reels were my own fault - the reel was not completely dry.
That was solved by obtaining a second reel to use while the first was
drying.
  #9  
Old January 29th 05, 12:28 AM
Richard Knoppow
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Default


"Ron Purdue" wrote in message
. com...
I have bad luck developing a roll of 35mm film on the reel
tonight. Is the
problem is a bent 35mm film reel? The film in some places
touches each
other, how do I fix the problem? I hope to have better
luck in the future,
thanks.

What kind of tank and how do you go about loading it?


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA



 




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