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Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 29th 12, 02:43 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David Dyer-Bennet
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Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?

"Trevor" writes:

"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
Today, I can place *a chosen focus point* on a musician's eyes and count on
AF-C to keep the eye in focus as
his head bobs to the music.


Exactly my point, you don't need 61 AF points to do that.


That's precisely the case where I *DO* need 51 AF points, or even more
(at least, I'd like some closer to the frame edges). I mean, I'm only
using a few, in the area of the eye -- but depending on the framing,
that eye could be almost anywhere, so I need AF points over the whole
frame.
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  #12  
Old June 29th 12, 02:55 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?


"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
Today, I can place *a chosen focus point* on a musician's eyes and count
on
AF-C to keep the eye in focus as
his head bobs to the music.


Exactly my point, you don't need 61 AF points to do that.


That's precisely the case where I *DO* need 51 AF points, or even more
(at least, I'd like some closer to the frame edges). I mean, I'm only
using a few, in the area of the eye -- but depending on the framing,
that eye could be almost anywhere, so I need AF points over the whole
frame.


How the hell do you select the right one from 51, how long does that take
you? And isn't it easier to just use a single central AF point, place it on
the eye, half press the shutter, and reframe? Works for me anyway.

Trevor.


  #13  
Old June 29th 12, 03:32 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
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Posts: 241
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?

On 29/06/2012 1:55 p.m., Trevor wrote:
"David Dyer-Bennet" wrote in message
...
Today, I can place *a chosen focus point* on a musician's eyes and count
on
AF-C to keep the eye in focus as
his head bobs to the music.

Exactly my point, you don't need 61 AF points to do that.


That's precisely the case where I *DO* need 51 AF points, or even more
(at least, I'd like some closer to the frame edges). I mean, I'm only
using a few, in the area of the eye -- but depending on the framing,
that eye could be almost anywhere, so I need AF points over the whole
frame.


How the hell do you select the right one from 51, how long does that take
you? And isn't it easier to just use a single central AF point, place it on
the eye, half press the shutter, and reframe? Works for me anyway.

Trevor.

It's pretty easy/fast to do using the 4-way selector, and with very
shallow DOF, "focus & recompose" is very unreliable - as people move.
There's also the auto focus point selection mode which tries to identify
the subject by pattern, and while not perfect, is surprisingly reliable
in putting the selected focus points right where you'd want them.
It's something I will miss if I shift to an FX Nikon, as the 51 points
are far more bunched up in the middle of the frame.
I don't know the Sony SLT system well, but one I was looking at in a
camera store seemed to have good face recognition, and pretty quick AF,
as well as a superb EVF. This may be the future - if not in a pellicle
type camera.


  #14  
Old June 29th 12, 08:03 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?


"Me" wrote in message
...
It's pretty easy/fast to do using the 4-way selector, and with very
shallow DOF, "focus & recompose" is very unreliable - as people move.
There's also the auto focus point selection mode which tries to identify
the subject by pattern, and while not perfect, is surprisingly reliable in
putting the selected focus points right where you'd want them.


Not in my experience with many Canon camera's unfortunately. You need face
detect for that, and that still only works for people of course.


It's something I will miss if I shift to an FX Nikon, as the 51 points are
far more bunched up in the middle of the frame.
I don't know the Sony SLT system well, but one I was looking at in a
camera store seemed to have good face recognition, and pretty quick AF, as
well as a superb EVF. This may be the future - if not in a pellicle type
camera.


Right, I've used an OM-D and that was one feature I liked. (not enough to
make me buy one though) I'm expecting Canon to add proper face detect at
some point.

Trevor.


  #15  
Old June 29th 12, 10:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
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Posts: 241
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?

On 29/06/2012 7:03 p.m., Trevor wrote:
"Me" wrote in message
...
It's pretty easy/fast to do using the 4-way selector, and with very
shallow DOF, "focus & recompose" is very unreliable - as people move.
There's also the auto focus point selection mode which tries to identify
the subject by pattern, and while not perfect, is surprisingly reliable in
putting the selected focus points right where you'd want them.


Not in my experience with many Canon camera's unfortunately. You need face
detect for that, and that still only works for people of course.


It's something I will miss if I shift to an FX Nikon, as the 51 points are
far more bunched up in the middle of the frame.
I don't know the Sony SLT system well, but one I was looking at in a
camera store seemed to have good face recognition, and pretty quick AF, as
well as a superb EVF. This may be the future - if not in a pellicle type
camera.


Right, I've used an OM-D and that was one feature I liked. (not enough to
make me buy one though) I'm expecting Canon to add proper face detect at
some point.

Trevor.


Not sure how the auto focus point select system works on the higher end
nikons. Despite 51 AF points, there's surely not enough data for full
face detect, but if there's a face taking up a reasonable part (1/3?) of
the VF, chance are very high that the AF sensor or sensors will light up
right over the eyes. Nikon "held back" with the D300 and 700, the D3 is
noticeably faster in 51 point auto select modes - there's noticeably
more delay with D300/700 before the camera makes it's mind up. This
(processing grunt?) also affects multi point continuous AF tracking,
where 21 point is apparently quite good on the D3, but only works
reliably on 11 point mode for D300/700 models from my experience. I
don't know if this difference persists between D4 and 800 models, but
presuming that the delay was a processor grunt issue, a lot could have
changed in 5 years.

If the face detect on the OMD impressed you, you should take a look at
the Sony slt a77. On face detect mode, it seemed to me like some kind
of science fiction movie thing, with the bonus that the viewfinder
resolution, size, lack of flicker, and brightness isn't shamed by a full
frame slr. With the OMD, you know you're looking through an EVF. With
the Sony, you feel like a fighter pilot with a complex "heads up"
display. Not sure if it helps with photography much (and in a lot of
cases it probably detracts from it), but the geek factor is very high.

  #16  
Old June 29th 12, 11:28 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?


"Me" wrote in message
...
If the face detect on the OMD impressed you, you should take a look at the
Sony slt a77. On face detect mode, it seemed to me like some kind of
science fiction movie thing, with the bonus that the viewfinder
resolution, size, lack of flicker, and brightness isn't shamed by a full
frame slr. With the OMD, you know you're looking through an EVF. With
the Sony, you feel like a fighter pilot with a complex "heads up" display.
Not sure if it helps with photography much (and in a lot of cases it
probably detracts from it), but the geek factor is very high.


I might try one sometime, but since Sony is likely to stop production
anyway, there's zero chance of me buying into their system. I'll just wait
for Canon to catch up with a better AF system, that's why I'm skipping the
5D3, not enough improvement over the 5D2 to justify the price IMO, not all
the features I'd like, and not as good as the Nikon D800 for more money :-(
In the meantime I have no real problem taking the photo's I, and my clients,
desire already.

Trevor.


  #17  
Old June 29th 12, 12:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: 5,285
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?

Me wrote:

Not sure how the auto focus point select system works on the higher end
nikons. Despite 51 AF points, there's surely not enough data for full
face detect,


The 1DX does have a rather high resolution exposure sensor,
which has more than enough resolution for face detect ...
a fact that Canon has cleverly engineered in and uses.

-Wolfgang
  #18  
Old June 30th 12, 01:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Robert Coe
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Posts: 4,901
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:22:17 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
: Me wrote:
:
: Not sure how the auto focus point select system works on the higher
: end nikons. Despite 51 AF points, there's surely not enough data
: for full face detect,
:
: The 1DX does have a rather high resolution exposure sensor,
: which has more than enough resolution for face detect ...
: a fact that Canon has cleverly engineered in and uses.

Isn't the crux of the matter that face detect can work only in live view mode?
Because if the image of the subject is being deflected into the viewfinder,
it's not available to the sensor for analysis. Which would seem to make it
useless for AF if the camera is used for action photography.

Bob
  #19  
Old June 30th 12, 12:04 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: 5,285
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?

Robert Coe wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:22:17 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
: Me wrote:


: Not sure how the auto focus point select system works on the higher
: end nikons. Despite 51 AF points, there's surely not enough data
: for full face detect,


: The 1DX does have a rather high resolution exposure sensor,
: which has more than enough resolution for face detect ...
: a fact that Canon has cleverly engineered in and uses.


Isn't the crux of the matter that face detect can work only in live view mode?


No.

Because if the image of the subject is being deflected into the viewfinder,
it's not available to the sensor for analysis. Which would seem to make it
useless for AF if the camera is used for action photography.


Is the exposure sensor able to get data when the mirror is down,
and if not, how is metering done?

-Wolfgang
  #20  
Old June 30th 12, 01:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Robert Coe
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Posts: 4,901
Default Did Canon decide to profit on bodies?

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 13:04:07 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
: Robert Coe wrote:
: On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:22:17 +0200, Wolfgang Weisselberg
: : Me wrote:
:
: : Not sure how the auto focus point select system works on the higher
: : end nikons. Despite 51 AF points, there's surely not enough data
: : for full face detect,
:
: : The 1DX does have a rather high resolution exposure sensor,
: : which has more than enough resolution for face detect ...
: : a fact that Canon has cleverly engineered in and uses.
:
: Isn't the crux of the matter that face detect can work only in live view mode?
:
: No.
:
: Because if the image of the subject is being deflected into the viewfinder,
: it's not available to the sensor for analysis. Which would seem to make it
: useless for AF if the camera is used for action photography.
:
: Is the exposure sensor able to get data when the mirror is down,
: and if not, how is metering done?

I believe there's a special metering sensor built into the viewfinder. But it
seems unlikely that it would have either the resolution or the computing power
to be useful for face detection. That said, I have no expertise at all in this
area; I've never had occasion to use a camera with face detection.

Bob
 




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