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What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?



 
 
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  #31  
Old June 15th 18, 12:36 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 21,584
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article , Neil
wrote:


https://www.lifewire.com/difference-...t-and-shoot-49
3178
A point and shoot camera is sometimes called a fixed lens camera,
because the point and shoot cannot change lenses. The lenses are
built directly into the camera body. A point and shoot camera also is
very easy to use, as it doesn't offer quite the level of manual
control options that a DSLR camera offers, which is where it receives
its name. You just point the camera at the subject and shoot in fully
automatic mode.

Camera manufacturers are cutting back on the number of point and
shoot cameras they create, as the cameras on smartphones are
improving to the point where people would rather carry the smartphone
alone, rather than carrying a smartphone and a digital camera.

apparently you want to make up your own definitions to suit your
agenda. good luck with that.

I have more than one fixed-lens camera that has better lenses and more
control than any smartphone I've seen and more than a Canon DSLR that I
own; a Sony with Zeiss lens that is over a decade old, a Panasonic with
Leica lens (also aged) and Olympus TG-4. They all produce images as good
as or better than the Canon and Nikon DSLRs that I have. They have their
limitations but it isn't their performance, so I don't have a definition
for "p&s" that can be generally applied to the kinds of comments you've
made.


now go try editing your photos *on* your camera, including selective
focus or portrait lighting *after* the shot. try shooting 4k videos and
editing them *on* the camera. or shoot panoramas without having to
manually stitch individual photos.

once all that's done, then upload the results to the 'net from anywhere
there's cellular service or wifi.

and that's just for starters.


You're dancing again.


it ain't me who is dancing.

None of those are CAMERA functions, they're
editing functions and have nothing to do with image quality.


wrong, not that it matters.

the fact is that all of that can be done *on* a smartphone and *cannot*
be done on a p&s camera.

and selective focus *is* a camera function, as is panorama.

your p&s might even have panorama mode, but it's very primitive in
comparison to a smartphone.

it does *not* have selective focus, however.

some smartphones create a depth map of the subject, where focus can be
adjusted *after* the photo was taken. which p&s captures a depth map?
none.

as i said, that's just for starters.

Keep it up,
and you'll be back where you were when you claimed that airplanes didn't
have brakes


only on the ground, when they are *not* functioning as an airplane,
something which was quite clear.

and there were no cameras with interchangeable film and
digital backs.


i never said any such thing. stop lying.

ad hominem attacks and outright lies means you have nothing.
  #32  
Old June 15th 18, 12:36 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 21,584
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:


there's also the
problem that it will be obsolete in less than 2 years.


Wow that's quite a long life for a smartphone which gets updated every year
if not more often.


two years is actually very, very short.

good luck getting the latest version of android to run on a 2 year old
device. don't even think about it for something older than 3-4 years.

android oreo has been out nearly a year and as of today, is installed
on less than 6% of devices. nougat, which has been out about two years
is only on about 30% of devices, most of which aren't even 7.1.

meanwhile, ios 12 will run on phones released 6 years ago and will be
*faster* than ios 11, which is currently installed on close to 90% of
devices.

tl;dr - ios devices have a *significantly* longer useful life than
android.
  #33  
Old June 15th 18, 02:50 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 333
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On 6/15/2018 7:36 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil
wrote:


https://www.lifewire.com/difference-...t-and-shoot-49
3178
A point and shoot camera is sometimes called a fixed lens camera,
because the point and shoot cannot change lenses. The lenses are
built directly into the camera body. A point and shoot camera also is
very easy to use, as it doesn't offer quite the level of manual
control options that a DSLR camera offers, which is where it receives
its name. You just point the camera at the subject and shoot in fully
automatic mode.

Camera manufacturers are cutting back on the number of point and
shoot cameras they create, as the cameras on smartphones are
improving to the point where people would rather carry the smartphone
alone, rather than carrying a smartphone and a digital camera.

apparently you want to make up your own definitions to suit your
agenda. good luck with that.

I have more than one fixed-lens camera that has better lenses and more
control than any smartphone I've seen and more than a Canon DSLR that I
own; a Sony with Zeiss lens that is over a decade old, a Panasonic with
Leica lens (also aged) and Olympus TG-4. They all produce images as good
as or better than the Canon and Nikon DSLRs that I have. They have their
limitations but it isn't their performance, so I don't have a definition
for "p&s" that can be generally applied to the kinds of comments you've
made.

now go try editing your photos *on* your camera, including selective
focus or portrait lighting *after* the shot. try shooting 4k videos and
editing them *on* the camera. or shoot panoramas without having to
manually stitch individual photos.

once all that's done, then upload the results to the 'net from anywhere
there's cellular service or wifi.

and that's just for starters.


You're dancing again.


it ain't me who is dancing.

None of those are CAMERA functions, they're
editing functions and have nothing to do with image quality.


wrong, not that it matters.

the fact is that all of that can be done *on* a smartphone and *cannot*
be done on a p&s camera.

You are wrong. My Olympus TG-4 has GPS, WiFi, auto panorama (which works
quite well due to its IBS), selective focus and some editing functions.
Conversely, no smartphone has equivalent CAMERA functions to the TG-4.

Keep it up,
and you'll be back where you were when you claimed that airplanes didn't
have brakes


only on the ground, when they are *not* functioning as an airplane,
something which was quite clear.

Wrong. Every dive bomber had air brakes and several private aircraft
have them as well. Several of us pointed that out to you when you lied
about it the first time.

and there were no cameras with interchangeable film and
digital backs.


i never said any such thing. stop lying.

You most certainly did, and I'm the one that pointed out to you that the
Leica R8 and R9 had those interchangeable backs available. You are the
one that is lying.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #34  
Old June 15th 18, 04:15 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,584
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

there's also the
problem that it will be obsolete in less than 2 years.

Wow that's quite a long life for a smartphone which gets updated every
year
if not more often.


two years is actually very, very short.


and Apple brings out the best iphone ever almost every year.


while still supporting older ones, unlike android, which is why a p&s
camera that runs android is an incredibly bad idea.

good luck getting the latest version of android to run on a 2 year old
device. don't even think about it for something older than 3-4 years.


why would I want to, and it;s not teh sort of problem P&S camera suffer from.


it is when they run android.
  #35  
Old June 15th 18, 04:15 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,584
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article , Neil
wrote:

I have more than one fixed-lens camera that has better lenses and more
control than any smartphone I've seen and more than a Canon DSLR that I
own; a Sony with Zeiss lens that is over a decade old, a Panasonic with
Leica lens (also aged) and Olympus TG-4. They all produce images as good
as or better than the Canon and Nikon DSLRs that I have. They have their
limitations but it isn't their performance, so I don't have a definition
for "p&s" that can be generally applied to the kinds of comments you've
made.

now go try editing your photos *on* your camera, including selective
focus or portrait lighting *after* the shot. try shooting 4k videos and
editing them *on* the camera. or shoot panoramas without having to
manually stitch individual photos.

once all that's done, then upload the results to the 'net from anywhere
there's cellular service or wifi.

and that's just for starters.

You're dancing again.


it ain't me who is dancing.

None of those are CAMERA functions, they're
editing functions and have nothing to do with image quality.


wrong, not that it matters.

the fact is that all of that can be done *on* a smartphone and *cannot*
be done on a p&s camera.


You are wrong.


nope.

My Olympus TG-4 has GPS, WiFi, auto panorama (which works
quite well due to its IBS), selective focus and some editing functions.
Conversely, no smartphone has equivalent CAMERA functions to the TG-4.


nonsense.

first of all, your camera does *not* have selective focus since it
*cannot* produce a depth map. it's a physical impossibility.

'some editing functions' = very primitive ones.

smartphones can run apps such as photoshop and lightroom as well as
many, many others. your camera cannot.

not only that, but many of the apps can sync edits with a desktop or
laptop, along with the photos, of course, another thing your camera
cannot do.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/adobe-lightroom-cc/id878783582?mt=8

its wifi is extremely limited and best of all, it requires a smartphone
app to use! how funny.

http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/product/compact/tg4/feature4.html
The TG-4 is equipped with a Wi-Fi function. When linked with the
Olympus Image Share smartphone app, images on the camera can be
easily transferred to a smartphone via Wi-Fi. Initial settings are no
more troublesome with a simple scan of the QR code that is displayed
on the camera. The settings can now be completed in just a few steps.

'initial settings' via a qr code (!!), which then must be 'completed in
just a few steps', with photos only going as far as the phone. not
quite so funny anymore.

apparently, they have not heard about bluetooth or nfc, or the cloud.

although once you get them to the phone, you can use the phone's wifi
(after unlinking it from the camera) to send it elsewhere.

oh, and it's gps needs an app too. not too surprising, since it lacks
cellular assist.

from the above link:
The computer application A-GPS Utility Software or the smartphone app
Olympus Image Track is required to update the GPS assist data.
....
To use Assist data, information must be updated via the Internet.
A computer or smartphone with an Internet connection is required. GPS
Assist data must be updated every four weeks.

and their app isn't particularly good, with a whopping 2 stars out of 5:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/olympus-image-share/id561896860?mt=8
This app is full of ridiculous UI problems. It doesn't check if a
photo has been imported before, so you can easily get duplicates by
accident. Doing something else causes the app to not only stop an
import that's in progress, but forget what it was importing all
together. The remote control mode is interesting but flaky. Olympus
does not seem to be working on improving any of this, so they should
open source it and give others a chance to make improvements.

Using an Olympus TG-4, after two days of fiddling with the app, still
unsuccessful at reviewing or uploading photos from the camera to my
iPhone. This is a nice camera for its intended purpose, but the
support software is a must, as well. With a camera labeled "WiFi" on
the top, there should be a seamless application to use the wifi
connection. The application available does not work at all. Very
disappointing.

on the other hand, its panorama mode looks like it's comparable to what
smartphones have been doing for a while. so there is that.

Keep it up,
and you'll be back where you were when you claimed that airplanes didn't
have brakes


only on the ground, when they are *not* functioning as an airplane,
something which was quite clear.

Wrong. Every dive bomber had air brakes and several private aircraft
have them as well. Several of us pointed that out to you when you lied
about it the first time.


there are always exceptions.

and there were no cameras with interchangeable film and
digital backs.


i never said any such thing. stop lying.

You most certainly did, and I'm the one that pointed out to you that the
Leica R8 and R9 had those interchangeable backs available. You are the
one that is lying.


nope. i never said any such thing. you are lying.

what i said was that 'digital film' was impossible for ordinary 35mm
film slrs, which it is, and for a variery of reasons.

a camera with an interchangeable back is *not* what i was talking about
and you know it.
  #36  
Old June 15th 18, 04:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,584
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

there's also the
problem that it will be obsolete in less than 2 years.

Wow that's quite a long life for a smartphone which gets updated every
year if not more often.

two years is actually very, very short.

and Apple brings out the best iphone ever almost every year.


while still supporting older ones, unlike android, which is why a p&s
camera that runs android is an incredibly bad idea.


I didn't know there were any.


then you aren't paying attention (as usual).

in a previous post, i linked two of them.

here they are again:
https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Sam...c105azwaatt-60
0x600-C1-052016?$product-details-jpg$

https://www.dpreview.com/news/222432...zoom-moto-mod-
hands-on-preview
  #37  
Old June 15th 18, 05:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 660
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:01:21 AM UTC-4, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 15 June 2018 12:36:48 UTC+1, nospam wrote:
[...]


Yes I know but it's irrelevant I too prefer the Mac OS for
both computer use and phone use, I'm betting I'd prefer it
to drive driverless cars too once both iOS and android start
writing the apps.

Yes, this year a request from a middle east student to start
his project to write an app for remote driverless car operation,
has been turned down for what I/we see as obvious reasons,
even though the student himself might be totally OK and not a
terrorist, we don't want to go down that route.



Gosh, that's quite amazing, because it seems like it was just last
week that we were told that we were wrong and that these sorts of
prohibitions won't ever happen! /sarcasm


-hh
  #38  
Old Yesterday, 02:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,584
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

there's also the
problem that it will be obsolete in less than 2 years.

Wow that's quite a long life for a smartphone which gets updated
every year if not more often.

two years is actually very, very short.

and Apple brings out the best iphone ever almost every year.

while still supporting older ones, unlike android, which is why a p&s
camera that runs android is an incredibly bad idea.

I didn't know there were any.


then you aren't paying attention (as usual).

in a previous post, i linked two of them.

here they are again:
https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Sam...c105azwaatt-60
0x600-C1-052016?$product-details-jpg$

https://www.dpreview.com/news/222432...zoom-moto-mod-
hands-on-preview


And what a massive section of teh market they take up.


exactly.

they were failures.

But it does prove my point, in that when people are buying such a device they
are buying a camera with a phone attached to to and not a phone with a camera
attached to it.
Check out the ads if you don;t belive me, it;s always the phone section that
gets the press/advertised no one is intersest in how the phone side works.
People now buy a camera with a phone attached.


they're buying a device that does many different things, including a
camera, so there is no longer a need for a second camera.

that's why the p&s segment is basically dead.
  #39  
Old Yesterday, 04:38 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,584
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

unlike android, which is why a
p&s camera that runs android is an incredibly bad idea.

I didn't know there were any.

then you aren't paying attention (as usual).

in a previous post, i linked two of them.

here they are again:
https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Sam...c105azwaatt-60
0x600-C1-052016?$product-details-jpg$

https://www.dpreview.com/news/222432...zoom-moto-mod-
hands-on-preview

And what a massive section of teh market they take up.


exactly.

they were failures.


because they were expensive and not very useful for the majority.


no more expensive than other smartphones.

the reason is that they were not particularly good and very bulky.

But it does prove my point, in that when people are buying such a device
they
are buying a camera with a phone attached to to and not a phone with a
camera
attached to it.
Check out the ads if you don;t belive me, it;s always the phone section
that
gets the press/advertised no one is intersest in how the phone side works.
People now buy a camera with a phone attached.


they're buying a device that does many different things, including a
camera, so there is no longer a need for a second camera.


People carried camera long before the carried phones.


whoosh

As I said now decent cameras come with a phone attached to them almost free
of charge. People buy their smartphone mostly based around the camera and
that is why the majority of smartphones put the camera as the most important
feature NOT the phone.


people buy smartphones for all sorts of reasons, the camera being just
one.

When was the last time mobile phone companies touted how wonderful their
phone sounded or was,


hd voice has been touted as a feature for a few years now.

it was the flip phone and that's why you should buy it,
even the colour has become a bigger feature than the phone itself.


so, not the camera, then.

that's why the p&s segment is basically dead.


Yep, because now you can get a free phone with your camera.


whoosh.
  #40  
Old Today, 04:05 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,584
Default What exactly is different inside a lens in Macro mode?

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:


I didn't know there were any.

then you aren't paying attention (as usual).

in a previous post, i linked two of them.

here they are again:

https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Sam...-sm-c105azwaat
t-60
0x600-C1-052016?$product-details-jpg$


https://www.dpreview.com/news/222432...rue-zoom-moto-
mod-
hands-on-preview

And what a massive section of teh market they take up.

exactly.

they were failures.

because they were expensive and not very useful for the majority.


no more expensive than other smartphones.


it was an addon making them more expensive.


the moto mod was an add-on.
the samsung was not.

the reason is that they were not particularly good and very bulky.


I;m bettign those few people looking for such a thing must have throught the
same.


or the camera in normal phones is good enough, without the bulk.

But it does prove my point, in that when people are buying such a
device
they
are buying a camera with a phone attached to to and not a phone with a
camera
attached to it.
Check out the ads if you don;t belive me, it;s always the phone
section
that
gets the press/advertised no one is intersest in how the phone side
works.
People now buy a camera with a phone attached.

they're buying a device that does many different things, including a
camera, so there is no longer a need for a second camera.

People carried camera long before the carried phones.


whoosh


So it did go over your head I thought so.
I assume you remmeber the poleroids, the Instamatics, the disc cameras .
They were the cameras of thier day but didn't include phones with them.
No one said well I;m not buying a camera without a phone attached.
When phone becaome protable it didn't stop people carrying cameras, oh look I
have a phone now I no longer need a camera, that didn't happen.
As cameras in phones became better and people had devices that could take
pictures and be used as phones, phone companies thought we cant; do much to
imporve the concept of a phones so lets add features to a phone.
Most people need a phone very few need a landline and most need a phone.


whoosh.


As I said now decent cameras come with a phone attached to them almost
free
of charge. People buy their smartphone mostly based around the camera and
that is why the majority of smartphones put the camera as the most
important
feature NOT the phone.


people buy smartphones for all sorts of reasons, the camera being just
one.


The biggest one that's why the phone part of the camera-phone isnl;t
mentioned much look at the ads, even still photography now takes a back seat
it's all 4k video and slo-mo capture, when was the last time you saw the
actual phone specs mentioned.


it's mentioned, along with various other features.

When was the last time mobile phone companies touted how wonderful their
phone sounded or was,


hd voice has been touted as a feature for a few years now.


Strange no ones been reakky interersed in it same with audio hi-fi after
stero most lost interest until surround sound came out and that isn't yet
availble on a 'phone'.


whoosh.
 




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