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No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 1st 14, 08:28 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Oregonian Haruspex
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Posts: 94
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 2014-11-27 10:33:06 +0000, Me said:

Not really because with the APS-C format you can design the rear element
of a lens closer to the image plane, which turns out to be pretty
crucial with super-wide lenses. A full frame SLR's mirror would
probably smash itself into pieces against the Sigma lens you mention.

That's actually not correct, as the Sigma 8-16 will mount on any Nikon
FX SLR body. The mirror will not touch the rear of the lens. It will
however vignette.


I'd rather have you try this on your camera.

If it's so /crucial/ to get the lens rear element close to the image
plane, then how come the best performing ultra-wide lenses are for SLR
formats?


They aren't. The best performing ultra-wide lenses are for the
rangefinder format. Followed by cine.

  #22  
Old December 1st 14, 08:29 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Oregonian Haruspex
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Posts: 94
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 2014-11-25 13:32:44 +0000, Tzortzakakis Dimitris said:

by looking at it, it's no wonder it costs an arm and a leg!!but surely
you can take amazing photos with it, despite all its aberations.is that
the M42 mount, which had my soviet Zenit? On later Zenits they had the
pentax K-2 mount. I had an 28 mm wide, a normal 50 mm and a 120 mm tele
IIRC.They were quite good, altough nothing to do with my Nikkor
50mm1.4, sigma 24 mm2.5 and tamron 70-210 zoom!!although the tamron was
quite crappy.


It's not for the M42 mount, it's for the Leica screw mount aka M39.

  #23  
Old December 1st 14, 08:31 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Oregonian Haruspex
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Posts: 94
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 2014-11-25 13:32:17 +0000, Sandman said:

In article , Alfred Molon wrote:

I was browsing photozone.de and couldn't find any full-frame
rectilinear 12mm lens. The widest was 14mm. Why is that the case?


In the APS-C world there is the Sigma 8-16, which has an equivalent
FF focal length of 12mm. A bit strange that for APS-C there are
wider rectilinear lenses than for FF. -- Alfred Molon


Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/
photo sharing site


Well, you've got the Nikkor 13mm f/5.6

If you find one, prepare to pay $10K for one in good shape.


Yes and then try to find a modern camera where the mirror can be locked
into the up position without returning after the exposure. Otherwise,
ker-smash!

  #24  
Old December 2nd 14, 07:10 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tzortzakakis Dimitris
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Posts: 120
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 1/12/2014 9:29 μμ, Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-11-25 13:32:44 +0000, Tzortzakakis Dimitris said:

by looking at it, it's no wonder it costs an arm and a leg!!but surely
you can take amazing photos with it, despite all its aberations.is
that the M42 mount, which had my soviet Zenit? On later Zenits they
had the pentax K-2 mount. I had an 28 mm wide, a normal 50 mm and a
120 mm tele IIRC.They were quite good, altough nothing to do with my
Nikkor 50mm1.4, sigma 24 mm2.5 and tamron 70-210 zoom!!although the
tamron was quite crappy.


It's not for the M42 mount, it's for the Leica screw mount aka M39.

yep, right I forgot. It was an 24mm *tamron* which was very good, almost
as good as the Nikkor, and an 70-210 sigma which was total crap, I
hardly ever used it. Back at the day I had a photo bag full of goodies,
a color darkroom and bulk film loader, now it's all gone.
  #25  
Old December 3rd 14, 12:19 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Oregonian Haruspex
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Posts: 94
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 2014-12-02 18:10:25 +0000, Tzortzakakis Dimitris said:

On 1/12/2014 9:29 μμ, Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-11-25 13:32:44 +0000, Tzortzakakis Dimitris said:

by looking at it, it's no wonder it costs an arm and a leg!!but surely
you can take amazing photos with it, despite all its aberations.is
that the M42 mount, which had my soviet Zenit? On later Zenits they
had the pentax K-2 mount. I had an 28 mm wide, a normal 50 mm and a
120 mm tele IIRC.They were quite good, altough nothing to do with my
Nikkor 50mm1.4, sigma 24 mm2.5 and tamron 70-210 zoom!!although the
tamron was quite crappy.


It's not for the M42 mount, it's for the Leica screw mount aka M39.

yep, right I forgot. It was an 24mm *tamron* which was very good,
almost as good as the Nikkor, and an 70-210 sigma which was total crap,
I hardly ever used it. Back at the day I had a photo bag full of
goodies, a color darkroom and bulk film loader, now it's all gone.


In high school we had a photography teacher who had invented a popular
consumer product, but stayed on teaching part time. He gave each of us
a half dozen refillable film canisters and would fill us up with Tech
Pan, Tri-x, T-Max, or 3200P for a buck each.

Those were the days.

  #26  
Old December 3rd 14, 10:02 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Me
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Posts: 470
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 2/12/2014 8:28 a.m., Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-11-27 10:33:06 +0000, Me said:

Not really because with the APS-C format you can design the rear element
of a lens closer to the image plane, which turns out to be pretty
crucial with super-wide lenses. A full frame SLR's mirror would
probably smash itself into pieces against the Sigma lens you mention.

That's actually not correct, as the Sigma 8-16 will mount on any Nikon
FX SLR body. The mirror will not touch the rear of the lens. It will
however vignette.


I'd rather have you try this on your camera.

I don't have an 8-16 to try, but the Sigma 10-20 and Nikkor 12-24 mount
on Nikon FX with no problems. The Sigma vignettes at all focal lengths,
the Nikkor doesn't at over 18mm, but both are lousy outside APS-C crop
size of the 35mm frame (very soft).

If it's so /crucial/ to get the lens rear element close to the image
plane, then how come the best performing ultra-wide lenses are for SLR
formats?


They aren't. The best performing ultra-wide lenses are for the
rangefinder format. Followed by cine.

Example(s) at the 12-14mm (equiv FOV range) please. Talk is cheap.
  #27  
Old December 3rd 14, 10:09 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Me
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Posts: 470
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 25/11/2014 10:48 a.m., Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-11-24 20:57:12 +0000, Alfred Molon said:

I was browsing photozone.de and couldn't find any full-frame rectilinear
12mm lens. The widest was 14mm. Why is that the case?


I own a full frame rectilinear 12mm lens, the first of its kind. The
Voigtlander Heliar 12mm f/5.6 Aspherical. It's a rangefinder (Leica
screw mount) lens which won't work on an SLR though. Looks like
Photozone needs to get with the program - I bought it a decade ago!

Photozone have tested it on Sony NEX (APS-C).
Even on 1/2 frame, performance was average (very high light fall-off
indeed, only average resolution off centre-frame)
So much for the "non retro-focus advantage".
  #28  
Old December 3rd 14, 04:38 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Sandman
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Posts: 5,467
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

In article , Oregonian Haruspex wrote:

On 2014-11-25 13:32:17 +0000, Sandman said:


Alfred Molon:
I was browsing photozone.de and couldn't find any full-frame
rectilinear 12mm lens. The widest was 14mm. Why is that the
case?


In the APS-C world there is the Sigma 8-16, which has an
equivalent FF focal length of 12mm. A bit strange that for APS-C
there are wider rectilinear lenses than for FF. -- Alfred Molon


Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site


Sandman:
Well, you've got the Nikkor 13mm f/5.6


If you find one, prepare to pay $10K for one in good shape.


Yes and then try to find a modern camera where the mirror can be
locked into the up position without returning after the exposure.
Otherwise, ker-smash!


Nope.


--
Sandman[.net]
  #29  
Old December 4th 14, 12:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Oregonian Haruspex
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 2014-12-03 09:02:14 +0000, Me said:

On 2/12/2014 8:28 a.m., Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-11-27 10:33:06 +0000, Me said:

Not really because with the APS-C format you can design the rear element
of a lens closer to the image plane, which turns out to be pretty
crucial with super-wide lenses. A full frame SLR's mirror would
probably smash itself into pieces against the Sigma lens you mention.

That's actually not correct, as the Sigma 8-16 will mount on any Nikon
FX SLR body. The mirror will not touch the rear of the lens. It will
however vignette.


I'd rather have you try this on your camera.

I don't have an 8-16 to try, but the Sigma 10-20 and Nikkor 12-24 mount
on Nikon FX with no problems. The Sigma vignettes at all focal
lengths, the Nikkor doesn't at over 18mm, but both are lousy outside
APS-C crop size of the 35mm frame (very soft).


Not all "Nikon FX" cameras have the same sized mirror or an identical
amount of mirror clearance. This is a function of viewfinder
magnification and other factors.

The Nikon F has a bigger mirror than the FM3A, for example. I'm sure
there are many different sizes and that there is a specification for
the maximum depth that a lens can protrude into the mount somewhere.

So I'd rather have you try this on your camera.


If it's so /crucial/ to get the lens rear element close to the image
plane, then how come the best performing ultra-wide lenses are for SLR
formats?


They aren't. The best performing ultra-wide lenses are for the
rangefinder format. Followed by cine.

Example(s) at the 12-14mm (equiv FOV range) please. Talk is cheap.


Well forget "equivalent," the 12mm Voigtlander is the only full-frame
12mm rectilinear lens. How about we restrict the conversation to 12mm
lenses only?

  #30  
Old December 4th 14, 12:53 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Oregonian Haruspex
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Posts: 94
Default No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

On 2014-12-03 15:38:35 +0000, Sandman said:

In article , Oregonian Haruspex wrote:

On 2014-11-25 13:32:17 +0000, Sandman said:


Alfred Molon:
I was browsing photozone.de and couldn't find any full-frame
rectilinear 12mm lens. The widest was 14mm. Why is that the
case?

In the APS-C world there is the Sigma 8-16, which has an
equivalent FF focal length of 12mm. A bit strange that for APS-C
there are wider rectilinear lenses than for FF. -- Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

Sandman:
Well, you've got the Nikkor 13mm f/5.6


If you find one, prepare to pay $10K for one in good shape.


Yes and then try to find a modern camera where the mirror can be
locked into the up position without returning after the exposure.
Otherwise, ker-smash!


Nope.


"Nope" eh? Nope what?

 




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