No 12mm rectilinear FF lens?

In article , Oregonian Haruspex
wrote:

Not really because with the APS-C format you can design the rear element
of a lens closer to the image plane, which turns out to be pretty
crucial with super-wide lenses. A full frame SLR's mirror would
probably smash itself into pieces against the Sigma lens you mention.

That's actually not correct, as the Sigma 8-16 will mount on any Nikon
FX SLR body. The mirror will not touch the rear of the lens. It will
however vignette.

I'd rather have you try this on your camera.
I don't have an 8-16 to try, but the Sigma 10-20 and Nikkor 12-24 mount
on Nikon FX with no problems. The Sigma vignettes at all focal
lengths, the Nikkor doesn't at over 18mm, but both are lousy outside
APS-C crop size of the 35mm frame (very soft).

Not all "Nikon FX" cameras have the same sized mirror or an identical
amount of mirror clearance. This is a function of viewfinder
magnification and other factors.

as far as the lenses are concerned they do.

The Nikon F has a bigger mirror than the FM3A, for example. I'm sure
there are many different sizes and that there is a specification for
the maximum depth that a lens can protrude into the mount somewhere.

other than a couple of lenses that protrude into the mirror box and
require mirror lockup, there is no issue.

So I'd rather have you try this on your camera.

no need.

On 4/12/2014 12:53 p.m., Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-12-03 15:38:35 +0000, Sandman said:

In article , Oregonian Haruspex wrote:

On 2014-11-25 13:32:17 +0000, Sandman said:

Alfred Molon:
I was browsing photozone.de and couldn't find any full-frame
rectilinear 12mm lens. The widest was 14mm. Why is that the
case?

In the APS-C world there is the Sigma 8-16, which has an
equivalent FF focal length of 12mm. A bit strange that for APS-C
there are wider rectilinear lenses than for FF. -- Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

Sandman:
Well, you've got the Nikkor 13mm f/5.6

If you find one, prepare to pay $10K for one in good shape.

Yes and then try to find a modern camera where the mirror can be
locked into the up position without returning after the exposure.
Otherwise, ker-smash!

Nope.

"Nope" eh? Nope what?

Presumably "nope" - as there's no problem mounting a Nikkor 13mm f5.6 AI
lens on any modern Nikon (D)SLR, DX or FX.
There were a couple of circular fisheye lenses made by Nikon about half
a century ago - requiring cameras with full mirror lockup.

On 4/12/2014 12:52 p.m., Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-12-03 09:02:14 +0000, Me said:

On 2/12/2014 8:28 a.m., Oregonian Haruspex wrote:
On 2014-11-27 10:33:06 +0000, Me said:

Not really because with the APS-C format you can design the rear
element
of a lens closer to the image plane, which turns out to be pretty
crucial with super-wide lenses. A full frame SLR's mirror would
probably smash itself into pieces against the Sigma lens you mention.

That's actually not correct, as the Sigma 8-16 will mount on any Nikon
FX SLR body. The mirror will not touch the rear of the lens. It will
however vignette.

I'd rather have you try this on your camera.
I don't have an 8-16 to try, but the Sigma 10-20 and Nikkor 12-24
mount on Nikon FX with no problems. The Sigma vignettes at all focal
lengths, the Nikkor doesn't at over 18mm, but both are lousy outside
APS-C crop size of the 35mm frame (very soft).

Not all "Nikon FX" cameras have the same sized mirror or an identical
amount of mirror clearance. This is a function of viewfinder
magnification and other factors.

The Nikon F has a bigger mirror than the FM3A, for example. I'm sure
there are many different sizes and that there is a specification for the
maximum depth that a lens can protrude into the mount somewhere.

So I'd rather have you try this on your camera.


If it's so /crucial/ to get the lens rear element close to the image
plane, then how come the best performing ultra-wide lenses are for SLR
formats?

They aren't. The best performing ultra-wide lenses are for the
rangefinder format. Followed by cine.

Example(s) at the 12-14mm (equiv FOV range) please. Talk is cheap.

Well forget "equivalent," the 12mm Voigtlander is the only full-frame
12mm rectilinear lens. How about we restrict the conversation to 12mm
lenses only?

Sigma make a 12 (-24mm zoom) rectilinear lens for "full-frame" 35mm slr
/ FX format, so the 12mm voigtlander is not the only 12mm full frame
rectilinear lens.
There are plenty of sample images on the web of the 12mm voigtlander
used with Sony NEX7 (full-frame mirrorless). It looks like it doesn't
perform significantly better or worse than the Sigma 12-24 @ 12mm, sharp
in the centre, soft in the edges, more vignetting with the voigtlander,
looks like more distortion with the Sigma. The Sigma is prone to flare
(original version - perhaps the second version is better).

In article , Me says...
used with Sony NEX7 (full-frame mirrorless)

The NEX 7 is not full frame.
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

On 5/12/2014 10:16 a.m., Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , Me says...
used with Sony NEX7 (full-frame mirrorless)

The NEX 7 is not full frame.

yes - my mistake - "A7" not NEX.

In article , Oregonian Haruspex wrote:

On 2014-12-03 15:38:35 +0000, Sandman said:

Oregonian Haruspex:
On 2014-11-25 13:32:17 +0000, Sandman said:

Alfred Molon:
I was browsing photozone.de and couldn't find
any full-frame rectilinear 12mm lens. The widest was 14mm.
Why is that the case?

In the APS-C world there is the Sigma 8-16, which has an
equivalent FF focal length of 12mm. A bit strange that for
APS-C there are wider rectilinear lenses than for FF. --
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

Sandman:
Well, you've got the Nikkor 13mm f/5.6

If you find one, prepare to pay $10K for one in good shape.

Oregonian Haruspex:
Yes and then try to find a modern camera where the mirror can be
locked into the up position without returning after the
exposure. Otherwise, ker-smash!

Sandman:
Nope.

"Nope" eh? Nope what?

The Nikkor 13mm f/5.6 works perfectly with all modern SLR's, no mirror
lock-up needed.


--
Sandman[.net]

Perhaps another question: is there any rectilinear lens wider than 12mm,
or is that physically impossible?

What is the widest rectilinear lens which is theoretically possible?
--
Alfred Molon

Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site