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#11
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
frederick wrote:
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: If I need flash, I can just as well use a swivel and tilt flash head with enough power for bouncing. Lugging an accessory flash around for occasional use for catch light or fill flash is a PITA. If a flash unit is too heavy, go use a compact camera with an inbuild flash --- because an DSLR is even heavier and larger. Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash in their pro cameras. Just because some people, who as ministers or judges should darn well know that murder is wrong, commit the very same never the less, is no reason for the other people to follow suit. Or are you claimimg that Hasselblad cannot do wrong? -Wolfgang |
#12
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
frederick wrote: Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: If I need flash, I can just as well use a swivel and tilt flash head with enough power for bouncing. Lugging an accessory flash around for occasional use for catch light or fill flash is a PITA. If a flash unit is too heavy, go use a compact camera with an inbuild flash --- because an DSLR is even heavier and larger. Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash in their pro cameras. Just because some people, who as ministers or judges should darn well know that murder is wrong, commit the very same never the less, is no reason for the other people to follow suit. Or are you claimimg that Hasselblad cannot do wrong? No. I expect that Hasselblad know that even a small pop-up flash can work reasonably well as a direct fill flash, and as a catch-light flash, the small diffuser is possibly even an advantage in some cases over a larger flash unit. It's not heaviness so much as an extra piece of equipment to lug around in a bag. I don't like carrying equipment with me that I'm unlikely to want to use. YMMV - but that doesn't make your opinion correct. The only valid reason I've seen posted so far not to have a built in flash was that it's potentially a bit fragile/exposed, and can pop up accidentally. Perhaps that could be solved by designing them so that opening the flash by touching a button could be disabled in the menu. I'd never had an slr camera with a built in flash until I got a dslr. I didn't have high expectations. Perhaps I find the built in flash on a Nikon dslr useful because it works well with iTTL, and is easy to set exposure comp. etc, and with D lenses and 3d colour matrix metering produces very acceptable results - within the limitations of the direct and not very powerful unit that it is. |
#13
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:16:51 -0400, "Matt Clara"
wrote: "frederick" wrote in message news:1189035316.788640@ftpsrv1... Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: just bob kilbyfan@aoldotcom wrote: A year ago when the double-rebates were on I had a 5D for a while but sold on ebay it as it was not going to replace my 1D (a used 1D2N did that, for the same price) and the lack of a pop-up flash didn't make it a good general use walk-around camera (my old 300D does that OK). Fancy that! I think I've used the pop-up flash maybe three times, twice to just see if it worked and once to check for that old "streaks" bug. If I need flash, I can just as well use a swivel and tilt flash head with enough power for bouncing. Lugging an accessory flash around for occasional use for catch light or fill flash is a PITA. Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash in their pro cameras. No, pop up flash sucks for everything except sucky family shots from sucky photographers. Period. I have the D200, and wouldn't use the pop up except for shots I could give two ****s about (even then, I'd just up the ISO). If you want pop up flash, shoot with point and shoots, otherwise, you're wasting your time. I was in a cave (Banff's Cave & Basin tourist spot) with my 30D and didn't bring my 580, so I used the pop-up flash... to my surprise, even though the cave was maybe about the size of a house - it illuminated it quite nicely, even at 100 ISO. Not too shabby. I've also used it as fill flash for wedding shots. Works great. Like someone else said, you should learn to use your equipment... jim http://www.jamesphotography.ca |
#14
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
"acl" wrote in message ps.com... On Sep 6, 3:41 am, frederick wrote: Lugging an accessory flash around for occasional use for catch light or fill flash is a PITA. Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash in their pro cameras. That may be true, but I personally would prefer it if my D200 had no flash. I've used it only to check that it works (I don't like flash, and don't know how to use fill-in flash effectively anyway-I don't want to learn either, I'm afraid). I cycle at least 10-15km every day with the camera hanging from its strap on my side, and it's happened that I popped it up by mistake without realising it. It also happened once while putting it in a bag. If that happens and I manage to break it, the camera will have to be sent for repairs! So I'd rather it didn't have it (or at least had some way of locking it down)... I mean, the camera is an absolute tank, but it can become almost useless just by shearing off a little plastic popup flash, supported by two plastic legs... Stupid. It has crossed my mind to just glue the thing closed... I've seen a lot of pros do just that to theirs with gaffers tape. |
#15
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
rederick wrote:
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: frederick wrote: Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash in their pro cameras. Just because some people, who as ministers or judges should darn well know that murder is wrong, commit the very same never the less, is no reason for the other people to follow suit. Or are you claimimg that Hasselblad cannot do wrong? No. I expect that Hasselblad know that even a small pop-up flash can work reasonably well as a direct fill flash, If I want "reasonably well", I don't buy Hasselblad. and as a catch-light flash, the small diffuser is possibly even an advantage in some cases over a larger flash unit. Any other straws lying around? It's not heaviness so much as an extra piece of equipment to lug around in a bag. You need a better bag. I don't like carrying equipment with me that I'm unlikely to want to use. I am extremely unlikely to use the pop up flash, and I cannot even leave it at home nor not buy it in first place. So there. YMMV - but that doesn't make your opinion correct. Nor does it make your oppinion correct. The only valid reason I've seen posted so far not to have a built in flash was that it's potentially a bit fragile/exposed, and can pop up accidentally. Let's add: There are many places where flash is frowned upon. You can show your camera and say: See? No flash. Let's add: it's yet another "feature" to be controlled, needing another dedicated button or menu slot. -Wolfgang |
#16
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
According to acl :
[ ... ] I cycle at least 10-15km every day with the camera hanging from its strap on my side, and it's happened that I popped it up by mistake without realising it. It also happened once while putting it in a bag. Hmm ... The Nikon D70 at least will not pop up the flash unless the camera is turned on. The actual latch is controlled by a solenoid, not directly by the button. And as long as you stay out of "Auto" mode, it won't pop up on its own when you try to take a shot. Every once in a while, the knob rubs on something and when I start to press the shutter release I will hear it pop up, and will immediately shove it back down, and turn back to "Program" It will also pop up in some of the "special" modes, which I never use, but never in Program, Aperture, Shutter, or full Manual. In any of those modes, you have to reach forward and hit the button on the left side of the prism housing. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#17
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
On Sep 7, 4:01 am, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
According to acl : [ ... ] I cycle at least 10-15km every day with the camera hanging from its strap on my side, and it's happened that I popped it up by mistake without realising it. It also happened once while putting it in a bag. Hmm ... The Nikon D70 at least will not pop up the flash unless the camera is turned on. The actual latch is controlled by a solenoid, not directly by the button. And as long as you stay out of "Auto" mode, it won't pop up on its own when you try to take a shot. Every once in a while, the knob rubs on something and when I start to press the shutter release I will hear it pop up, and will immediately shove it back down, and turn back to "Program" It will also pop up in some of the "special" modes, which I never use, but never in Program, Aperture, Shutter, or full Manual. In any of those modes, you have to reach forward and hit the button on the left side of the prism housing. Well, in the D200, it's mechanical, so it can pop up even with the camera off. Anyway, sometimes I leave the switch to on, since the camera goes to sleep by itself. I don't know if it pops up by itself in program, but I suspect not (as I said, it's mechanical: you can see the latch moving if you press the button with the flash up). |
#18
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
On Sep 6, 5:31 pm, Scott W wrote:
You seem to have a huge disdain for "sucky family shots", it kind of sounds like you only view photography as worthwhile if it is artistic. But I got to tell you that in time, say 20 to 30 years, "sucky family shots" can end up having a lot of value. I had a grandmother who only would take artistic photos, almost all landscape. She had good gear and thought of herself as a good photographer, as did a lot of other people at the time. She has been dead now for almost 30 years, and no one could give a rats ass about her photos, it is a real shame that in with all the artistic stuff she took she could not have been bothered to take a few "sucky family shots", just something to think about. I got to thinking about this a few days ago. Most of my photos are just photos of the places I live in and visit, and I don't think my son (for example) will give a toss about them in 50 years. On the other hand, I have a couple of otherwise ordinary photos of one of my grandfathers during some military campaigns in the 1900s and 1910s, which I greatly value. It certainly made me think. |
#19
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
rederick wrote: Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: frederick wrote: Hasselblad put a pop-up flash in the H3d - if it's okay to put such an "amateur" feature in that camera, then IMO it's a cop-out for Canon and Nikon not to include a pop-up flash in their pro cameras. Just because some people, who as ministers or judges should darn well know that murder is wrong, commit the very same never the less, is no reason for the other people to follow suit. Or are you claimimg that Hasselblad cannot do wrong? No. I expect that Hasselblad know that even a small pop-up flash can work reasonably well as a direct fill flash, If I want "reasonably well", I don't buy Hasselblad. Exactly. That's why they include a pop up flash. You appear to be able to do "reasonably well" without one. and as a catch-light flash, the small diffuser is possibly even an advantage in some cases over a larger flash unit. Any other straws lying around? It's not heaviness so much as an extra piece of equipment to lug around in a bag. You need a better bag. On many occasions, I try not to "need" a bag at all. One camera, two lenses - one in a pocket. I don't like carrying equipment with me that I'm unlikely to want to use. I am extremely unlikely to use the pop up flash, and I cannot even leave it at home nor not buy it in first place. So there. You're "extremely unlikely" to use the pop up flash because your camera hasn't got one. YMMV - but that doesn't make your opinion correct. Nor does it make your oppinion correct. The only valid reason I've seen posted so far not to have a built in flash was that it's potentially a bit fragile/exposed, and can pop up accidentally. Let's add: There are many places where flash is frowned upon. You can show your camera and say: See? No flash. I've never struck that. Let's add: it's yet another "feature" to be controlled, needing another dedicated button or menu slot. Get over it. There are many features I never use in the menu. The button that pops up the flash is the same button used to control flash settings with. |
#20
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FA: Canon EOS 5D
["Followup-To:" header set to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems.]
frederick wrote: Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: rederick wrote: No. I expect that Hasselblad know that even a small pop-up flash can work reasonably well as a direct fill flash, If I want "reasonably well", I don't buy Hasselblad. Exactly. That's why they include a pop up flash. You appear to be able to do "reasonably well" without one. You misread me. If I buy Hasselblad, I want "excellent", not "reasonably well". "reasonably well" is a higher end compact camera or a low end DSLR on full auto. It's not heaviness so much as an extra piece of equipment to lug around in a bag. You need a better bag. On many occasions, I try not to "need" a bag at all. One camera, two lenses - one in a pocket. Use a compact camera, then; no need to carry a second lens and it has an inbuilt flash. I don't like carrying equipment with me that I'm unlikely to want to use. I am extremely unlikely to use the pop up flash, and I cannot even leave it at home nor not buy it in first place. So there. You're "extremely unlikely" to use the pop up flash because your camera hasn't got one. Wheee! I now have a 20D _without_ a pop up flash. Oops, belay that, my camera says it _still_ has a pop up flash. Darn. You really had me confused there for a moment. The only valid reason I've seen posted so far not to have a built in flash was that it's potentially a bit fragile/exposed, and can pop up accidentally. Let's add: There are many places where flash is frowned upon. You can show your camera and say: See? No flash. I've never struck that. So? I've never felt a need for a pop-up flash in a DSLR, so there. Let's add: it's yet another "feature" to be controlled, needing another dedicated button or menu slot. Get over it. There are many features I never use in the menu. The button that pops up the flash is the same button used to control flash settings with. Oh, an overlaid button. Fancy that --- and all that for something I don't need. -Wolfgang |
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