Finding restaurants

"Sandman" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Savageduck wrote:

Sandman:
Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately,
Americans don't season their food much at all, especially not in
tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists are Americans.

Where did you eat

I don't remember all the places right now, unfortunately.

and who are these Americans who don't season
their food much at all?

I didn't catch their names.

It is beginning to look as if Swedes
generalize with regard to restaurant food in the USA.

I think most europeans do.

Sandman:
Most food is super-greasy, tons of added sugar and way too sweet
to eat. But that's not really the biggest problem (and could be
filed under the 'this is how we "spice" things in America). The
biggest probem is the usually really low aulity of meat, produce
and things like that. It's like you guys add syrup, sugar and
salt to hide the crappy meat that's hidden underneath somewhere.

Again, where did you eat to come up with that idea?

In the tourist areas around Orlando.

Andreas Skitsnack:
US Chain restaurants have some advantage to the traveler. When
traveling in the US, I know I will find what I consider to be
good food in an Outback Steakhouse or a Carrabba's Italian
Grill. I know that the food in an Olive Garden or a Denny's is
not going to be something I will enjoy. I have no illusions
that others will share this opinion. I pick a restaurant to
please me, not others.

Sandman:
As a foreigner, this is not a viable option, since few American
chains exists abroad.

That's OK! We don't see too many European chains here. However, we
have all sorts of restaurants with diverse non-American flavor.

Cool. I hope you're not talking about things like Taco Bell here. :-D

Sandman:
And even on those that do exist abroad (like McDonald's) they
still are of lower quality in the states. FOr instance; in
America, the soda is sweetened with syrup instead of real sugar,
as opposed to most of the rest of the world, which means that a
Coke tastes... well, worse. Also, the quality of produce and meat
in McDonald's in US is lower than most of Europe.

McDonald's is not in anyway considered to be "good food" even in the
USA.

Not in Sweden either. But the point was that the *meat* is high
quality in
Sweden, as opposed to in America.

Andreas Skitsnack:
While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person
from Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as
what a European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian
is used to.

Sandman:
Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.

Where are these places which add all this sugar? As for Chinese food
joints, the most nasty food additive is MSG.

MSG?

Monosodium glutamate. It enhances flavor, Chinese food is notorious for
having large amounts of it. A lot of packaged foods contain it. My
wife cannot tolerate it, she gets headaches from it. A large dose in
food will cause much more than a headache. Fortunately, the effects
don't last long for her but it's still bad for the short time it does
affect her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

Andreas Skitsnack:
I've traveled extensively in Europe, and had both hits and
misses. The independently owned restaurant is more prevalent in
Europe, so there's no experience factor involved in choosing
restaurants. In Europe, the full parking lot and the presence
of a crowd in a restaurant is not a dependable way to choose.
The better restaurants often don't have on-site parking, and the
crowd in the place only means that this restaurant offers what
the local crowd likes. That can be quite different from the
style of food that I like.

Sandman:
Plus, Europe is such a diverse place, where food culture changes
ever X miles you travel, most times significantly.

...and the USA isn't a diverse place?? Tell that to the Thai,
Cambodians, Hmong, Japanese, Chinese, French, Irish, Italians,
Spanish, Koreans, Greeks, Moroccans, various Central & South
Americans, even Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, and others from countries
too numerous to list. Many of them specialize in serving their
national cuisine to their fellow Americans.

Not in the tourist strips in Orlando...

Andreas Skitsnack:
Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I
would have suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally
different from what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban
restaurant, a Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant
(not Taco Bell!). He may or may not like it, but be adventurous.
Take your chances. That's one of the interesting things about
travel.

Sandman:
All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most of
them had in common is the low standard meat/produce and the added
sugar/salt/fish fetish.

You really didn't make the effort to seek out "good food" on your
trip.

How would I have gone about to do just that, mr Duck? I mean, we
mostly had
a very limited time frame going from the parks to the hotel for
planning
our dinner, so for someone pressed for time and no knowledge about
which
restaurants are good and which are bad, how would one attain that
knowledge?

In my town, Paso Robles, at the junction of Hwy 101 & Hwy 46 I
can find an astonishing number of fast food joints, All there to
take advantage of theNorth-South L.A.-San Francisco traffic.
However, if I look within a few blocks I can find all sorts of
places to eat, including two French run places, three real Mexican
food places, two very good Italian restaurants, any many more.
Always ask the locals where to eat, don't follow the herd.

There was no herd to "follow". We're in a car, going from the Disney
park
to our hotel. Along that trip there is a very long strip with tons of
restaurants on it. What locals should I have asked?

Sandman:
And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different
to what we're used to!

Taco Bell = food of the last resort.

Taco Bell = Food is not on the menu.


--
Sandman[.net]

"Whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 19 January 2015 21:20:18 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 08:43:26 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:


well this is a photography NG we should have pictures to argue over
at the very least.


I haven't found restaurants to be interesting as a photographic
subject, but this is a candid taken in a Wendy's
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wjqqruj8g...-33-3.jpg?dl=0

And this is a candid taken at a food truck here in town that kinda
ties in with the gun thread comments

https://www.dropbox.com/s/syb3ccf9hg...07-01.jpg?dl=0

I was trying to read what the notice says on the back of the guy
ordering says.

Here;'s one of my local resturants.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/whisky...ream/lightbox/

It had specail opining offers :-)

I was in London in 2009, I stayed in Hammersmith. I ate a far amount of
meals at a Turkish restaurant we found. I noticed a very large number
of Turkish restaurants in Hammersmith.

In article , PAS wrote:

Savageduck:
Where are these places which add all this sugar? As for Chinese
food joints, the most nasty food additive is MSG.

Sandman:
MSG?

Monosodium glutamate. It enhances flavor, Chinese food is notorious
for having large amounts of it. A lot of packaged foods contain
it. My wife cannot tolerate it, she gets headaches from it. A
large dose in food will cause much more than a headache.
Fortunately, the effects don't last long for her but it's still bad
for the short time it does affect her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

Oh, "Umami". Sweden has very tight regulations about additives in food, and
umami is not amongst them. There have been debate about it, of course, but
no scientific reports point to umami (or MSG) being anything but a natural
additive.

It is allowed in all food where additives are allowed.



--
Sandman[.net]

On 1/19/15 10:48 AM, in article
, "Whisky-dave"
wrote:

On Monday, 19 January 2015 15:14:38 UTC, PAS wrote:


I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I wouldn't
think that the food you eat is seasoned much.

I did find swedish punch a bit spicy, well more spicy than I was expecting.
The only other swedish food I remeber meating was crayfish.


I particularly like the horsemeat meatballs at IKEA! LOL!!!

On 2015-01-20 18:12:17 +0000, Tony Cooper said:

What is a "fish fetish"?

"Wicked Tuna"

--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 1/19/15 PDT 11:26 PM, Sandman wrote:
In article , PAS wrote:


True, swedes aren't known for spicy food so to speak. Swedish "husmanskost"
is often traditional and high in fat (for the farmers back in the day), but
modern versions of the dishes are not very fat at all. But while Swedes may
not season the food all that much, you have to realize that the high
quality of swedish meat gives enough of a taste in itself.

My not-very-educated impression of Swedish and Norwegian food (I know
quite a few Norwegians) is that is is somewhat bland when it comes to
seasoning and that's fine by me. I'm a picky eater, I don't like a lot
of things and I am the farthest from an "adventruous eater" as you will
find. Give me some meat and potatoes and I'm fine.

I wouldn't call it "bland" though, but tastes vary of course. Swedes are
fond of fish, and usually well seasoned. Especially the pickled herring is
heavily seasoned, and is more or less a national dish for larger occasions
(midsummer's eve, christmas eve etc).

And a dish of swedish meatballs made from prime ground beef and with fresh
mashed potatoes and lingonberry jam. Everywhere else I've tasted this (to a
swede, really mundane dish) it's bland, but in Sweden, it has real taste.

In English, we capitalize nationalities and nations. Also dishes, thus,
"Swedish Meatballs", though one could use lowercase m and not be wrong.
I love Lingonberry jam! And I've had very tasty homemade Swedish meatballs.

Love herring of all types- well, creamed or in vinegar at least. Also
have had experience with Red Herrings.....

Just don't feed me lutfisk!

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
What is trollish is making sweeping generalizations about the
food quality and restaurant quality of a country based on a
visit to one touristy area of that country. And, one based on
what were evidently choices of places made haphazardly. Your
extensive complaints an example of shirt-tail dragging.

Sandman:
Haha! I've been to more places than one in America, so the
opinions of the american cousiine is based on them all. That
said, I'm not really "complaining".

If not, you do a remarkably good job of appearing to do so.

Maybe to someone that has a hard time reading and understanding English, I
suppose...

Sandman:
I am just telling people what I think of the food when they ask,

Who asked?

Last time it was John Turco, that asked about my vacation. He didn't ask me
specifically about the food, of course, but since it's a part of my overall
opinion about the vacation, I included it in the response.

You originated comments about the "horrible" food you encountered in
Florida.

See, Andreas, those are quote marks, but that's not a quote from me,
especially not in that context. I did indeed encounter horrible food in
America (i.e. Taco Bell), but I've never said that the food in America is
"horrible". Your reading comprehension problems are acting up again.

Who asked or gives a rat's ass about your experiences? Those of us who
either live in Florida or are familiar with how to find better
restaurants than you managed to do, are not interested.

In this group - the ones living in the states are most certainly the ones
that gave a "rat's ass" the most about my opinions about the food in
America. Surprisingly so, I must add. There's a lot of misplaced pride in
the food culture of America.

I mean, I could understand an italian person, or a frenchman getting upset
if someone were to complain about their respective cousine, but an
American? It's just odd.

Sandman:
or making an joke. I didn't start a new thread in a photography
group to "complain" about the food.

Nor did I. I started a thread that contained suggestions on how to
find better restaurants when traveling.

But you did start a new thread about food in America, clearly showing that
out of the two of us, the one giving the most "rat's ass" about this is
you. I couldn't care less. When the subject comes up, I'll mention the
lousy food that one is likely to get in the states as a tourist.

And what supposed "suggestions" was there in your post? I mean, the only
thing that comes close is you saying that you had been willing to offer
recommendations, but that's hardly a general suggestion for "finding better
restaurants when travelling".

Andreas Skitsnack:
Yet, this is as marked in the US as it is in Italy where
northern cuisine is different from southern cuisine...but more
extensive because the US is larger.

Sandman:
Problem for a tourist, especially a foreign tourist, is that it's
hard to know what restaurant that may or may not serve some
"local" cousine that may or may not be better than the "average"
american cousine.

See, here is where those "suggestions" should have been inserted.

Andreas Skitsnack:
The tourist area restaurant operator, though, cooks for some
unattainable level of pleasing everyone.

Sandman:
It's the other way around, if you ask me. They "cook" for the
lowest common denominator, and since most tourists are americans,
that means a lot of sugar, fat, grease, syrup, deep-frying and
whatnot.

What confuses you about "pleasing everyone" and "lowest common
denominator" not being the same thing?

Sorry, I got sidetracked with the "unattainable level", which to me seemed
to imply something better than "lowest common denominator", but I probably
misunderstood you. I would say that serving the lowest common denominator
is a highly attainable level. Just add sugar, fat and deep-fry it. Bam,
done.

Sandman:
The biggest probem is the usually really low aulity
of meat, produce and things like that.

Andreas Skitsnack:
There is a significant difference between grain-fed beef and
corn-fed beef. Corn-fed beef is more expensive and more
difficult to find in Florida. Only the top-end restaurants
offer corn-fed beef.

Sandman:
Ok, help me understand this here. We don't have "meat farms" in
Sweden

That term is not used in the US. Beef cattle are owned by ranchers
in the US. Ranchers are in the livestock business and farmers are
in the agricultural business. We do use "fish farm", "pig farms",
and "milk farms", but not "beef farms".

That wass "meat farms", and whatever you call them, they're pretty
horrific:
http://tinyurl.com/n7tk8mp

Sandman:
that way you do in the states. But our cattle are fed by grazing
in pastures,

Grass will not sustain a large herd of beef cattle. They are fed
supplemental products; grain in some parts of the country and corn
in other parts of the country. Grass-fed beef, unless the animal is
part of a very small group and is pastured in a large area, is tough
and flavorless.

Wow, that's the largest pile of bull**** you've posted in a long while. I
suppose it might be something an American would try to convince himself
about.

Sandman:
I usually buy meat that is local, I go down to a food hall and buy
prime beef that is fresh and tastes awesome.

That is done in the US, but that is not a sufficient source for
restaurant use.

There is no reason it couldn't be. I mean, sure there aren't all that many
ranches close to downtown NY, perhaps, but USA has tons of empty space.
It's probably just that the large (i.e. enormous) meat packing factories
beat them on price, so that's the kind of meat most Americans (and
restaurants) have access to.

Local meat here is more than twice the price than packed meat, but packed
meat here is still a lot better than grocery store meat in the states.

Andreas Skitsnack:
Produce quality, the things you mostly see in the salad course,
also vary regionally in the US. Florida restaurants generally
buy locally grown products because of shipping costs, and
tomatoes, lettuce, and that sort of this don't have the same
quality if grown in the sandy soil of Florida. Midwestern
tomatoes, for example, are far superior to Florida-grown
tomatoes.

Sandman:
Maybe. I think most of the problems with produce when I've been
there is that it has never tasted fresh.

We already know you pick "horrible" restaurants.

There's that disingenous quote again.

Sandman:
FOr instance; in America, the soda is sweetened with
syrup instead of real sugar, as opposed to most of the rest
of the world, which means that a Coke tastes... well, worse.

Andreas Skitsnack:
Just above you've complained about the high sugar content in our
food.

Sandman:
Yeah? I don't drink soda's myself. This was just a "for instance".

You don't drink soda, but you somehow know that our soda is "worse"?

Yup.

But, you're "not really complaining"...just making derogatory
comparisons about things you about which don't have personal
experience.

I do. I have tasted Coca Cola in the states. It tastes funny. Which is
partly due to the syrup and probably partly due to the water being a lot
different as well.

Andreas Skitsnack:
I've never used Yelp or that type of
thing for a recommendation. It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp
recommendations are often "salted" by the restaurant.

Sandman:
Proof? No? Thought so.

Andreas Skitsnack:
I need proof for this?

Sandman:
Yup. Or rephrase it as an opinion or a suspicion.

Or keep it unsusbtantiated.

Andreas Skitsnack:
It's well-known and general knowledge that the Yelp review that
says "Great food and great service" was probably provided by a
waiter at that restaurant. If you want an outside opinion, see

Sandman:
"well known" and "probably"... Hmm, no proof there.

OK, you just keep deluding yourself if it makes you feel better.

Hey, I don't know either way - I just saw you make a claim and your
credibility is in the negative space, so it's not like I'd take a claim
from you at face value.

While you think that Yelp is a dependable source of valid
information, you admit to using Yelp and finding only "horrible"
food.

It's all extremes to you. I've used Yelp a sum total of perhaps three times
in my life. It was recommended to me when I was in the states (as a last
resort). The fact it led me to the wrong place was not someting I
attributed to that particular resturant gaming the review system, but
because it's a popular restaurant *among americans*, and indeed, it was
packed with your typical stereotypical ghetto tourists. It's hard knowing
where to go, and Yelp didn't help, but I have no reason to believe it
didn't work because it was cheated by the restaurant. There's a difference.

Andreas Skitsnack:
How many authentic Yelp reviews did *you* submit based on your
experience?

Sandman:
Only one. In fact, I asked about recommendations for restaurants
in another group and someone there told me that using Yelp could
at least give an indication.

How'd that work out for you?

Bad. But again, that's not necessarily due to your still unsubstantiated
claim.

The big problem with Yelp is that if it's a good restaurant it will
naturally generate good reviews.

Sounds great!

If it's a bad restaurant, the owners/management want to be included in
the Yelp listings so they "salt" the reviews with contributions from
employees, friends, and family.

Cool, and by doing that, they surpass the geniunely good restaurants? So...
still don't have any source for this claim?

You won't know which is which, and - evidently - followed the
recommendations that led you to "horrible" food.

I know. But let's test your "theory". Here's the area in which the
"horrible" restaurant was found:

,17z

You're not alowed to zoom and/or pan. That's the area we were in. Please
point out the really good restaurants in that area that a european tourist
would like, and then point out how we would have found out about them.

Thanks in advance.


--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Sandman:
And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right" restaurant
is pretty hard for a foreigner with limited time to do any
research, which is my point. If you were in downtown Västerås
(where I live) and picked a restaurant at random, you'd be sure
that it has great quality food.

That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the food, but the
ingredient quality will be top notch.

Västerås is a city with a population of under 150,000 according to
Wiki.

Yup! But the statement applies equally to all swedish towns.

While tourists may visit Västerås, it's hardly a tourist
mecca compared to the tourist corridor in Florida that you visited.

Of course not, that's the point.

In a city like Västerås, restaurants survive only if what they offer
pleases the local clientele.

And given the balance between foreigner and American tourists, the tourist
area of Orlando serves what pleases Americans, by the same logic.

In a tourist-heavy area like the one you visited, a restaurant can
survive merely be being open. There are enough people who don't
know the area and just stop where they see a restaurant. Like you.

Hence, the problem. As it seems, the ratio between good restaurant and
"crap restaurant with the only advantage of 'being open'" is frightingly
high.

Sandman:
All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most
of them had in common is the low standard meat/produce and
the added sugar/salt/fish fetish.

What is a "fish fetish"?

I really... can't remember why I wrote that. I must have meant something
else, but I can't remember what. Odd.


--
Sandman[.net]

In article , Sandman
wrote:

Andreas Skitsnack:
I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often
"salted" by the restaurant.

Sandman:
Proof? No? Thought so.

I need proof for this?

Yup. Or rephrase it as an opinion or a suspicion.

It's well-known and general knowledge that the Yelp review that says
"Great food and great service" was probably provided by a waiter at that
restaurant. If you want an outside opinion, see

"well known" and "probably"... Hmm, no proof there.

how about you prove they don't? oh yea, you can't, because they do.

and then you *agree* it's full of shills:

http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/oh-lo...ple-to-post-fa
ke-yelp-r-1641909713

Which is illegal and Yelp is doing their best to vet them out. Read more
about it he

http://officialblog.yelp.com/2013/11...d-reviews.html

That said, some people will always try to game these review sites, and some
"attack" may be successful to begin with, but most of these sites work hard
to prevent and work against it.

In article , Sandman
wrote:

Sandman:
Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately,
Americans don't season their food much at all, especially not in
tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists are Americans.

that's because not everyone likes spicy food, so restaurants in
tourist-heavy areas will tend to be bland.

again, you're picking the wrong restaurants.

And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right" restaurant is pretty
hard for a foreigner with limited time to do any research, which is my
point. If you were in downtown Västerås (where I live) and picked a
restaurant at random, you'd be sure that it has great quality food.

not necessarily.

That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the food, but the
ingredient quality will be top notch.

not necessarily.

i'm sure it's a wonderful place but to claim that every restaurant is
excellent is completely bull****.

Sandman:
Most food is super-greasy, tons of added sugar and way too sweet
to eat. But that's not really the biggest problem (and could be
filed under the 'this is how we "spice" things in America). The
biggest probem is the usually really low aulity of meat, produce
and things like that. It's like you guys add syrup, sugar and
salt to hide the crappy meat that's hidden underneath somewhere.

not only are you piking the wrong restaurants, you're picking ****ty
ones.

Yeah, but who's to blame? Me for not knowing, or for the fact that there
are way too many ****ty restaurants around?

you for not knowing or taking the time to pick better restaurants.

any idiot would know that fast food such as taco bell is going to be at
best, not that great.


Sandman:
And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different
to what we're used to!

you flew all the way to the usa and went to a taco bell??
seriously??? wtf is wrong with you?

taco bell is ****ty fast food. wtf did you expect?

Oh no, don't give me that! ****ty fast food has it's place. Taco Bell is a
LOT worse than ****ty fast food. It was the worst thing I've put in my
mouth in a long time.

there are worse.

McDonald's is hitty fast food, and it has its place, and is edible when in
a hurry or for other reasons. Taco Bell is a *punishment* to the taste
buds. Taco Bell was horrible goo that they surely found lying in the back
trash bin from another fast food restaurant.

taco bell and mcdonalds are equally ****ty. the only difference is that
one is a burger and one is a taco.

And why did we go there? Well, me and my son had been shopping, and he was
hungry. When driving along, I recognized the logo and thought, why not?
I've seen it in movies, and it's apparently a pretty popular place seeing
how there is one in every intersection pretty much. How bad can it be,
really?

that's not how to pick good restaurants.