Light source for Pyro negs

It's impossible. The amount
of development that works with VC paper is rather high; the amount
that works well with graded is rather lower.

Once again the HMS Nutcase.

Is "Blatently Incorrect".

If anything the complete opposite and
even that is subject to the intended grade of paper one is making the
negative for. If one is making the negative for grade two it works for
either....., and even "IF" the papers are somewhat subtley different that
difference is easily adjusted on the VC paper type.
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:15:39 GMT, Gregory W Blank
wrote:

It's impossible. The amount
of development that works with VC paper is rather high; the amount
that works well with graded is rather lower.

Once again the HMS Nutcase.

Is "Blatently Incorrect".

If anything the complete opposite and
even that is subject to the intended grade of paper one is making the
negative for. If one is making the negative for grade two it works for
either....., and even "IF" the papers are somewhat subtley different that
difference is easily adjusted on the VC paper type.

Since you're responding to the nameless one, did you not also notice
his embrace of a variation in development in this thread?
Inconsistent?! Ahh, the hobgoblin of small minds. I myself have
dabbled in inconsistentcy quite often. Then again, I do admit it.


Robert Vervoordt, MFA

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:15:39 GMT, Gregory W Blank
wrote:

It's impossible. The amount
of development that works with VC paper is rather high; the amount
that works well with graded is rather lower.

Once again the HMS Nutcase.

Is "Blatently Incorrect".

If anything the complete opposite and
even that is subject to the intended grade of paper one is making the
negative for. If one is making the negative for grade two it works for
either....., and even "IF" the papers are somewhat subtley different that
difference is easily adjusted on the VC paper type.

Since you're responding to the nameless one, did you not also notice
his embrace of a variation in development in this thread?
Inconsistent?! Ahh, the hobgoblin of small minds. I myself have
dabbled in inconsistentcy quite often. Then again, I do admit it.


Robert Vervoordt, MFA

In article ,
Robert Vervoordt wrote:

Since you're responding to the nameless one, did you not also notice
his embrace of a variation in development in this thread?
Inconsistent?! Ahh, the hobgoblin of small minds. I myself have
dabbled in inconsistentcy quite often. Then again, I do admit it.

I was responding to the assertation,versus the nameless anything ;-)
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

In article ,
Robert Vervoordt wrote:

Since you're responding to the nameless one, did you not also notice
his embrace of a variation in development in this thread?
Inconsistent?! Ahh, the hobgoblin of small minds. I myself have
dabbled in inconsistentcy quite often. Then again, I do admit it.

I was responding to the assertation,versus the nameless anything ;-)
--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Uranium Committee wrote:

(Ken Smith) wrote in message . com...

Why does Mr. Gainer say the stain adds contrast when the only reason I
use it is to lower the contrast, i.e. hold highlight tones?


That's the wrong reason to use pyro. The better reason is to ADD
density, using graded paper. You must adjust the development time
downward to allow for that. You CANNOT make a pyro negative that will
print ideally on both graded and VC paper. It's impossible. The amount
of development that works with VC paper is rather high; the amount
that works well with graded is rather lower.


No, No, No. You did not understand my post from August 16, 2004 when you were
still Michael Scarpitti. Here it is again:

Michael,


Please stop misleading readers. I trust you are not doing
it knowingly, but the effect is just the same.


Graded paper is sensitive to blue light with a very small
range of sensitivity in the green spectrum. Using a pyro
negative with graded paper will not affect the final image,
other than, perhaps, by extending slightly exposure time,
since green light has little to no affect on the graded
paper. You may have noticed that one does not use yellow or
magenta filters with graded paper. Does one?


On the other hand, variable contrast paper is made so as to
be sensitive to both blue and green light. That is why
yellow and magenta filters are used. The blue light
produces high contrast images. The green light produces low
contrast images. Yellow filters block blue light, thus
producing a low contrast image from the green light.
Magenta filters block green light, thus producing a high
contrast image from the blue light. Any of this sound familiar?


The yellow stain on a pyro negative acts as a variable
density yellow filter. In the shadow regions, the addition
of the yellow stain raises the values by close to one zone,
making shadows more defined. As the stain is proportionally
denser in the highlights than in the shadows, the highlights
are simultaneously kept from being blown out, so that more
detail is observable in the highlight regions as well.


There is, by the way, a couple good articles in the last two
issues of View Camera that illustrate these effects of pyro.


Francis A. Miniter


Michael Scarpitti wrote:

"Francis A. Miniter" wrote in message
...

Michael,

You have it backwards. The benefit of the stain is lost with graded
papers, but is achieved with VC papers.


No, sorry, YOU have it backwards. The stain is valued because it adds
density without grain.

Uranium Committee wrote:

(Ken Smith) wrote in message . com...

Why does Mr. Gainer say the stain adds contrast when the only reason I
use it is to lower the contrast, i.e. hold highlight tones?


That's the wrong reason to use pyro. The better reason is to ADD
density, using graded paper. You must adjust the development time
downward to allow for that. You CANNOT make a pyro negative that will
print ideally on both graded and VC paper. It's impossible. The amount
of development that works with VC paper is rather high; the amount
that works well with graded is rather lower.


No, No, No. You did not understand my post from August 16, 2004 when you were
still Michael Scarpitti. Here it is again:

Michael,


Please stop misleading readers. I trust you are not doing
it knowingly, but the effect is just the same.


Graded paper is sensitive to blue light with a very small
range of sensitivity in the green spectrum. Using a pyro
negative with graded paper will not affect the final image,
other than, perhaps, by extending slightly exposure time,
since green light has little to no affect on the graded
paper. You may have noticed that one does not use yellow or
magenta filters with graded paper. Does one?


On the other hand, variable contrast paper is made so as to
be sensitive to both blue and green light. That is why
yellow and magenta filters are used. The blue light
produces high contrast images. The green light produces low
contrast images. Yellow filters block blue light, thus
producing a low contrast image from the green light.
Magenta filters block green light, thus producing a high
contrast image from the blue light. Any of this sound familiar?


The yellow stain on a pyro negative acts as a variable
density yellow filter. In the shadow regions, the addition
of the yellow stain raises the values by close to one zone,
making shadows more defined. As the stain is proportionally
denser in the highlights than in the shadows, the highlights
are simultaneously kept from being blown out, so that more
detail is observable in the highlight regions as well.


There is, by the way, a couple good articles in the last two
issues of View Camera that illustrate these effects of pyro.


Francis A. Miniter


Michael Scarpitti wrote:

"Francis A. Miniter" wrote in message
...

Michael,

You have it backwards. The benefit of the stain is lost with graded
papers, but is achieved with VC papers.


No, sorry, YOU have it backwards. The stain is valued because it adds
density without grain.

Gregory W Blank wrote in message news:%9dqd.2409$wr6.57@trnddc04...
It's impossible. The amount
of development that works with VC paper is rather high; the amount
that works well with graded is rather lower.

Once again the HMS Nutcase.

Is "Blatently Incorrect".

If anything the complete opposite and
even that is subject to the intended grade of paper one is making the
negative for. If one is making the negative for grade two it works for
either....., and even "IF" the papers are somewhat subtley different that
difference is easily adjusted on the VC paper type.

Look, dumbass:

The pyro negative that prints well on grade 2 paper will NOT print
well on VC paper with a #2 filter. It's IMPOSSIBLE. The difference
will be in the highlights. Using a higher # filter won't work either.
You CANNOT make the same negs match on VC and graded paper.

Gregory W Blank wrote in message news:%9dqd.2409$wr6.57@trnddc04...
It's impossible. The amount
of development that works with VC paper is rather high; the amount
that works well with graded is rather lower.

Once again the HMS Nutcase.

Is "Blatently Incorrect".

If anything the complete opposite and
even that is subject to the intended grade of paper one is making the
negative for. If one is making the negative for grade two it works for
either....., and even "IF" the papers are somewhat subtley different that
difference is easily adjusted on the VC paper type.

Look, dumbass:

The pyro negative that prints well on grade 2 paper will NOT print
well on VC paper with a #2 filter. It's IMPOSSIBLE. The difference
will be in the highlights. Using a higher # filter won't work either.
You CANNOT make the same negs match on VC and graded paper.

Robert Vervoordt wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:15:39 GMT, Gregory W Blank
wrote:

It's impossible. The amount
of development that works with VC paper is rather high; the amount
that works well with graded is rather lower.

Once again the HMS Nutcase.

Is "Blatently Incorrect".

If anything the complete opposite and
even that is subject to the intended grade of paper one is making the
negative for. If one is making the negative for grade two it works for
either....., and even "IF" the papers are somewhat subtley different that
difference is easily adjusted on the VC paper type.

Since you're responding to the nameless one, did you not also notice
his embrace of a variation in development in this thread?

HUH? What I was saying was that using pyro, a different degree of
development would be required to give the same result using graded
paper and VC paper. That is not asvocating variable film development
to adjust for scene brightness range.

Inconsistent?! Ahh, the hobgoblin of small minds. I myself have
dabbled in inconsistentcy quite often. Then again, I do admit it.


Robert Vervoordt, MFA