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#91
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article , MC
wrote: word/excel does more, but it's overkill for what most people want to do. a product optimized for a given task is a better choice than one that does everything. jack of all trades, master of none. Now what are you blabbering on about. Oh, another dismissal. I see. Ok. it's not a dismissal. what you fail to understand is that word/excel is not the best choice for every word processing and spreadsheet related task. it might be for you, but that doesn't mean everyone else must abide by your personal preferences. for simple tasks, they're overkill. yes, they 'can' be used but there are *better* choices. simple concept. Just because YOU have no idea how to use the MS apps for simple tasks does not mean it is not easy. I can assure you it is. whether i know how to use them is irrelevant. Yes it is because you make yourself sound as though it is YOU who is not capable of using more advanced software to do simple tasks and because of this so nobody else should need to use it for simple tasks. I am only pointing out how you come accross. i never said anything remotely close to that. keep in mind that i've been using them longer than you have, since word/excel were available for macs before they were for windows. Again, more assumtions. it's not an assumption. word and excel were released on mac even before windows itself was released. you have stated you do not use macs and despise apple. are you now claiming to have used macs in 1985? If senior citizens (among others), who have never touched a PC in their life, can get to grips with using the afforesead MS Office apps then it cannot be that hard. I know so, I used to teach it to them (after showing them the rudiments of using the PC first of course). that you need to teach them 'rudiments of using a pc' before even starting to teach word/excel is exactly why it's the wrong choice. Why? Who are you to dictate what people should and should not use with regards their choice of device/OS? You have not even bothered to enquire why these people wanted or needed to learn how to use a computer let alone why they wanted to learn MS office. This last comment of yours alone has just prooved to everyone on here that you believe your opinions should be a blanket for everyone, regardless. i'm not dictating anything. what you fail to understand is that there are *easier* solutions for the tasks they want to do. it's highly unlikely they need the full capabilities of word or excel or need to deal with windows, especially at their age. you are forcing them to learn windows and word/excel, without finding out what their needs actually are. if that is the right choice, great, but chances are, it's not. windows is *not* a universal solution for every computing task. that's one of many reasons why ballmer was fired. "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" they would need a lot less handholding using a mac, ipad or chromebook than with a pc, likely teaching you a few things. If someone has no idea whatsoever on how to use a computing device you still have tyo go through the basics. For example, you would still have to show someone how to use a mouse/keyboard on a mac, access the internet via a browser, use email, how to manage files etc. on macs and other devices. Again, your comments are proving just how ignorrant your posts are making you look. not true. direct manipulation with a finger is much easier than the indirection of a mouse, a concept you no doubt do not understand. managing files is another complexity that ultimately will go away, yet another concept you won't grasp. babies, who can't even talk and have *zero* experience with computers of any kind, can figure out how to use an ipad all on their own. there are countless such videos on youtube, or just ask anyone with a kid. you're assuming that the way windows works is how all computing must work and there's no room for change. that's a bad assumption, and why microsoft has stagnated for so long. to their credit, they have begun to move away from that strategy, but only because ballmer is gone. computers are there to do work *for* the user, not the other way around. pdf is the imaging model on macos and ios, it's part of the operating system itself, which means any app can read and write pdf, no additional software required, free or paid. that also means that any app which can print can print to pdf, also without any additional software, free or paid. the free acrobat is just a reader. to write, the paid version is required. other apps may claim to write pdf, but generally don't do a very good job. And your point is? It doesn't matter where or how access is gained to a facility. If it can be accessed it can be accessed. yes it does matter. obviously not to you, but to many people, ease of use, productivity and user experience are very important. And, for the record, all the software I use can write pdfs just fine. But thanks for the blanket dismissal, again. you still don't get it and likely never will. your loss. |
#92
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 21:08:57 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up an automatic backup. false. as i said before, setting up automatic backups is no more difficult than connecting a hard drive and clicking a button: https://support.apple.com/library/co...care/images/en _US/osx/tm_new_drive.png Thank you for offering an Apple-only solution to the solution of a problem involving Windows 10. backups are not a platform specific issue. The presumed ease of use of Time Machine is. it's not presumed. it *is* easier. .... and the relevance of this to Windows 10 is ...? just because windows lacks something as easy to use as time machine doesn't mean it does not exist. If Windows lacks it there in point in you citing it. that sentence does not make sense as written. Quite right. I'll try again, If Windows lacks it there is there any point in you citing it? In any case, I am quite certain my Apple-only sister would say "What is Time Machine" and then have to be shown in detail how to use it. nope. she just needs to connect an external drive and click the 'use as backup disk' button. it really is that simple. What makes you think that if she couldn't use a USB memory stick she could connect an external drive and click the 'use backup' button (what use back up button?). this isn't specifically about her, but it really isn't very difficult. if she can't handle it, someone else in the household can. This is slightly hilarious. You are now accepting the possibility that she might not be able to handle a task. At the same time you are asserting that there *will* be someone else in the house to handle it. how did she manage to plug the computer into mains power and set it up? that is a *lot* more steps than for time machine. How did she manage to do these things as well as setting up and connecting to her network connection? I have no idea but can only presume that someone did it for her. as i also said, there are additional options if one wants to tweak things, such as choosing a different destination and/or excluding certain files, but that's not required. I am sure she would be quite mystified by the concept of destinations in this context. what part of "that's not required" is not clear? The part where you wrote about it. What would a person such as my sister do when confronted with the apparent need to choose a destination? she won't see that unless she goes looking for it. So even if she needed it and knew what to do with it she wouldn't know it was there? as i said: what part of "that's not required" is not clear? you are mistakenly assuming it's more difficult to use than it actually is because you don't know any different. viewing photos on a usb stick requires navigating the file system and using at least two apps, versus zero. Time Machine is not an app? no. it's part of the operating system. Are you saying that Apples needs at least two apps to enable viewing of images on a USB memory stick? nope. i'm saying *all* computers do, one to access and/or copy the individual files within the file system and another to view the photos. people ignore the fact that windows file explorer and mac finder are apps. once enabled, it runs without any user interaction. In the case of my sister, it required several emails of instruction before she could even plug it in. From then on it got worse. I am unfamiliar with Apples and it turned out that in spite of using them for more than 20 years, so too is my sister. In fact it is my experience that many casual users of computers of all kinds do not understand how they work but operate them by rote and literally have to be taught before they can do anything new. in other words, a lot more complex than automatic backups. ... no more complex once the proper use has been demonstrated. that proper use must be demonstrated is clear proof that the product is more complex than it needs to be. you are making excuses for a poor design. I know someone who ran a very succesful business school teaching Word and Excel among other things. That person could never get his head around the idea of a file directory/folder. You are failing to recognise the variation in people's thought processes. I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks. what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people. Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind. it hasn't changed. Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement. no, you hoped that something changed it so you could argue about that too. In this case my argument consists of offering evidence that suggested that there is a class of users for whom initiating backups is not a trivial task. They are not uncommon and denial of their existence will not cause them to cease to exist. your argument assumes all computers are as difficult to use as windows and will remain that way forever. You are attempting to change the subject. That's twice now. The discussion is about backing up Windows 10. Apples have nothing to do with it. i haven't changed anything. You haven't changed, about that I will agree. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#93
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 22:58:04 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: To try to compare the complexity of the two tasks is ridiculous, but that's where nospam shines: proposing the ridiculous just to argue. nope. eric brought up usb sticks when the discussion was about the simplicity of automatic backups. I did that to illustrate how easily people can be frustrated by even the simplest of unfamiliar tasks. it's not unfamiliarity that's the problem, it's poor design. How would you improve the design of a USB memory stick from the user's point of view? -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#94
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
nospam wrote:
keep in mind that i've been using them longer than you have, since word/excel were available for macs before they were for windows. I've used Word under DOS before Macs existed. So, I don't know what you think you were using, but it wasn't the first versions of Word. -- best regards, Neil |
#95
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On 10/14/2018 06:32 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:21:58 +1300, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 09:49:35 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow. there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done. My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB stick. I am sure she is not alone. that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion. Of course it has. sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with backups. In this case it has everything to do with computer users who cannot master anything above the basics, whether it is using backups or something as complicated as plugging in and viewing the contents of a USB memory stick. automatic backups and manual manipulation of files on a usb stick are two very different tasks. one has no user interaction and the other is completely manual. Viewing files on a USB stick is a simple task compared with setting up an automatic backup. It's been a while since I set up my backups, but - as I remember - I had to make choices...where to back-up, when to back up, and what type of back-up to do. That is a rather complicated process for someone who is not computer-savvy. Even before that the person has to know how to even start the process. Viewing files on a USB stick is not as complicated, but it does require that the person choose how to read them (the app to use) and to navigate to the correct drive letter. And, then, to know how to advance through the images. The sender usually doesn't know what app the receiving person has that is a proper viewer. I would say that neither process is "simple" for the raw novice. I just stuck a USB stick containing images in my (Windows) computer. Nothing popped up to tell me what to do. Given what you've said about your sister's computer skills, without instructions from you she wouldn't know what to do. But, she wouldn't know what to do if you told her to back-up her files, either. If I insert a USB stick (with some files on it) in my Linux computer, a box will pop up saying "Removable medium is inserted.... Please select the action you want to perform:..." Usually first on the list is the file manager. I've never used Apple/Mac OS, and I quit Windows at end-of-life for XP. Maybe Linux is now the easier operating system?! To try to compare the complexity of the two tasks is ridiculous, but that's where nospam shines: proposing the ridiculous just to argue. I haven't sent a USB stick to anyone similar to your sister, but I do send SmugMug gallery links (family pix) to some elderly relatives that have similar computer skills. I include instructions on how to open the link and how to advance through the gallery. I was illustrating how helpless untrained people can be when faced with anything but the most basic of tasks. what it illustrates is that computers are too complex for most people. Which side of the argument are you on. Please make up your mind. it hasn't changed. Damn! I hoped the new one was an improvement. -- Ken Hart |
#96
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
On 10/15/2018 9:14 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 15 October 2018 13:08:04 UTC+1, Neil wrote: nospam wrote: keep in mind that i've been using them longer than you have, since word/excel were available for macs before they were for windows. I've used Word under DOS before Macs existed. So, I don't know what you think you were using, but it wasn't the first versions of Word. He did say BEFORE windows not before DOS there's quite a differnce without mouse control or WYSIWYG Word under DOS had both mouse control and WYSIWYG, as did all apps that needed it, such as drawing, painting, etc. FWIW, Windows 1, 2, & 3.x were merely DOS shells, and there were better shells available prior to them. -- best regards, Neil |
#97
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: https://support.apple.com/library/co...m/applecare/im ages/en _US/osx/tm_new_drive.png Thank you for offering an Apple-only solution to the solution of a problem involving Windows 10. backups are not a platform specific issue. The presumed ease of use of Time Machine is. it's not presumed. it *is* easier. ... and the relevance of this to Windows 10 is ...? that as good as win10 is, it's still not as easy to use as it could be. just because windows lacks something as easy to use as time machine doesn't mean it does not exist. If Windows lacks it there in point in you citing it. that sentence does not make sense as written. Quite right. I'll try again, If Windows lacks it there is there any point in you citing it? yes. In any case, I am quite certain my Apple-only sister would say "What is Time Machine" and then have to be shown in detail how to use it. nope. she just needs to connect an external drive and click the 'use as backup disk' button. it really is that simple. What makes you think that if she couldn't use a USB memory stick she could connect an external drive and click the 'use backup' button (what use back up button?). this isn't specifically about her, but it really isn't very difficult. if she can't handle it, someone else in the household can. This is slightly hilarious. You are now accepting the possibility that she might not be able to handle a task. At the same time you are asserting that there *will* be someone else in the house to handle it. you're assuming again. how did she manage to plug the computer into mains power and set it up? that is a *lot* more steps than for time machine. How did she manage to do these things as well as setting up and connecting to her network connection? I have no idea but can only presume that someone did it for her. then that someone can connect a hard drive and click a button for her. how does she manage to use the computer if she's so inept? heck, driving a car is more complicated. as i also said, there are additional options if one wants to tweak things, such as choosing a different destination and/or excluding certain files, but that's not required. I am sure she would be quite mystified by the concept of destinations in this context. what part of "that's not required" is not clear? The part where you wrote about it. What would a person such as my sister do when confronted with the apparent need to choose a destination? she won't see that unless she goes looking for it. So even if she needed it and knew what to do with it she wouldn't know it was there? she doesn't need it. that's the whole point. and if she does, it's easy to find. it's designed to be easy to use, but with the flexibility for those who need it. not everyone does. most people do not. |
#98
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: To try to compare the complexity of the two tasks is ridiculous, but that's where nospam shines: proposing the ridiculous just to argue. nope. eric brought up usb sticks when the discussion was about the simplicity of automatic backups. I did that to illustrate how easily people can be frustrated by even the simplest of unfamiliar tasks. it's not unfamiliarity that's the problem, it's poor design. How would you improve the design of a USB memory stick from the user's point of view? i already explained why sending photos on a usb stick is not a good solution, with several alternatives. do try to keep up. |
#99
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: I;d also make them so they they would fit any way around. usb-c does that, and once again, you can thank apple for that. |
#100
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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos
In article , Neil
wrote: nospam wrote: keep in mind that i've been using them longer than you have, since word/excel were available for macs before they were for windows. I've used Word under DOS before Macs existed. So, I don't know what you think you were using, but it wasn't the first versions of Word. read what i wrote again. i said available for macs before windows. i never mentioned dos. and if you think word for dos was in any way comparable to either the mac or windows versions, you are delusional. |
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