low light

I have to shoot action photos in low light conditions. What is the
best DSLR for this purpose?
Thanks,
Yip

On 7 Mar 2007 04:03:00 -0800, Yip quipped:

I have to shoot action photos in low light conditions. What is the
best DSLR for this purpose?

It's never just a matter of getting the best DSLR for the purpose.
It's a DSLR body + lens combination that must be considered, as well
as the low light level and specific types of actions you need to
shoot. Some combinations will be so demanding that there may not be
a suitable solution. Others may be so easy that almost any DSLR
will do. If you can determine the minimum gear that will suffice,
you can save a lot of money buying a body and lens(es). If you
don't know but have enough money to burn, you could start with a
Canon 5D and see if that and a typical "kit" lens gets you what you
need. If not, you might need to spend about $1000 or even several
thousand dollars getting a better lens if the kit lens proves
inadequate. If your sports shooting demands long bursts of shots at
very high frame rates, you might need to get a much more expensive
body than the 5D, ie, one of the "pro" bodies from Canon or Nikon.

You gave no information at all as to the kind of action photos
you'll be shooting or in what kind of low light levels. If you can
tell us what they are, you might get some concrete examples of what
kind of DSLR will meet your needs. Which brings up another point.
You really want to know what kind of cameras will be suitable. You
don't want to ask what the BEST DSLR is, because the "best" for one
person won't be the best for another, and the absolute "best" for
*you* might be $8,000 above your budget, whereas a $1,200 camera
with kit lens might do everything you're looking for, and would be
good enough. Care to share which camera(s) you're currently using,
if any?

On Mar 7, 7:03 am, "ipy2006" wrote:
I have to shoot action photos in low light conditions. What is the
best DSLR for this purpose?
Thanks,
Yip


I'd look at a Canon 30D, about the best for a reason able price, the
Canon 5D is better but 3X (approx) the price. Canons seem to have a
heavier in camera noise reduction than the cameras with a Sony sensor.
Remember you won't get by with a kit lens here. If you are in school
gyms, swimming pools etc you will neeed at least an f2.8 lens. A
70-200 f2.8 pushes $2K. If you buy single focal length lenses 85 -
135mm should cover what you need, just look at lenses that are f1.4-
f2.8, price escalate dramaticly after 135mm. Some claim they get by
with a fast 50mm, doesn't seem long enough for me. An 85 f1.8 or a 135
f2 should be good lenses to look at, depending on the distance of the
action. Just calculate what f-stop and ISO can get you to a shutter
speed of at least 1/250 of a second.
Vibration reduction will be of minimal usefulness you should be at
shutter speeds that don't need it and the blur will come from the
action.

Tom

On Mar 7, 7:58 am, ASAAR wrote:
On 7 Mar 2007 04:03:00 -0800, Yip quipped:

I have to shoot action photos in low light conditions. What is the
best DSLR for this purpose?

It's never just a matter of getting the best DSLR for the purpose.
It's a DSLR body + lens combination that must be considered, as well
as the low light level and specific types of actions you need to
shoot. Some combinations will be so demanding that there may not be
a suitable solution. Others may be so easy that almost any DSLR
will do. If you can determine the minimum gear that will suffice,
you can save a lot of money buying a body and lens(es). If you
don't know but have enough money to burn, you could start with a
Canon 5D and see if that and a typical "kit" lens gets you what you
need. If not, you might need to spend about $1000 or even several
thousand dollars getting a better lens if the kit lens proves
inadequate. If your sports shooting demands long bursts of shots at
very high frame rates, you might need to get a much more expensive
body than the 5D, ie, one of the "pro" bodies from Canon or Nikon.

You gave no information at all as to the kind of action photos
you'll be shooting or in what kind of low light levels. If you can
tell us what they are, you might get some concrete examples of what
kind of DSLR will meet your needs. Which brings up another point.
You really want to know what kind of cameras will be suitable. You
don't want to ask what the BEST DSLR is, because the "best" for one
person won't be the best for another, and the absolute "best" for
*you* might be $8,000 above your budget, whereas a $1,200 camera
with kit lens might do everything you're looking for, and would be
good enough. Care to share which camera(s) you're currently using,
if any?

Here are some scenarios,
Indoor shooting of people talking with hand gestures, people walking
or pacing in the room, kids playing, women cooking in kitchen, or
groups of people in meeting rooms etc. Sometimes I don't have the
ability to use lights, I need to depend on flash and high brightness
setting. Currently, I am using a Sony Digital Camera, Cyber-shot, DSC-
H2. My budget is $1000 and at the most $1500.

I read some review that Canon Eos Digital Rebel xTi DSLR is good low
lighting. Nikon D80 was good but the article said more as a available-
light camera.

Please comment.

Thanks,
yip

"ipy2006" wrote in message
ups.com...

Here are some scenarios,
Indoor shooting of people talking with hand gestures, people walking
or pacing in the room, kids playing, women cooking in kitchen, or
groups of people in meeting rooms etc. Sometimes I don't have the
ability to use lights, I need to depend on flash and high brightness
setting. Currently, I am using a Sony Digital Camera, Cyber-shot, DSC-
H2. My budget is $1000 and at the most $1500.

I read some review that Canon Eos Digital Rebel xTi DSLR is good low
lighting. Nikon D80 was good but the article said more as a available-
light camera.

Please comment.

From what it sounds like with the situations you described there will be
some sort of lighting source, not like the people are in complete darkness
or anything or not lights on in the house/room at all. I have teh Canon XTI
and I have been suprised wtih the situations where I have not had to use the
flash at all, with just appropriate adjustment with shutter, aperture, and
white balance I have gotten some really good pictures.

B-Worthey

tomm42 wrote:
On Mar 7, 7:03 am, "ipy2006" wrote:
I have to shoot action photos in low light conditions. What is the
best DSLR for this purpose?
Thanks,
Yip


I'd look at a Canon 30D, about the best for a reason able price, the
Canon 5D is better but 3X (approx) the price. Canons seem to have a
heavier in camera noise reduction than the cameras with a Sony sensor.

Not quite. Canon sensors have inherently low noise at low signal
levels. Noise reduction implies some method of reducing noise,
and that can only be done by averaging pixels to reduce
spatial resolution. One can do that in software in post processing.
It helps to have a good low noise/high signal system to begin with.

See:
Digital Cameras: Does Pixel Size Matter?
Factors in Choosing a Digital Camera
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...el.size.matter

Digital Camera Sensor Performance Summary
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...rmance.summary

For the OP: choose a camera with the largest pixels and the lowest
read noise. The two relevant plots on the digital.sensor.performance.summary
web page are Figure 3 (lower on the plot is better), Figure 6 (higher
on the plot is better) and Figure 7 (higher = better).

Remember you won't get by with a kit lens here. If you are in school
gyms, swimming pools etc you will neeed at least an f2.8 lens. A
70-200 f2.8 pushes $2K. If you buy single focal length lenses 85 -
135mm should cover what you need, just look at lenses that are f1.4-
f2.8, price escalate dramaticly after 135mm. Some claim they get by
with a fast 50mm, doesn't seem long enough for me. An 85 f1.8 or a 135
f2 should be good lenses to look at, depending on the distance of the
action. Just calculate what f-stop and ISO can get you to a shutter
speed of at least 1/250 of a second.
Vibration reduction will be of minimal usefulness you should be at
shutter speeds that don't need it and the blur will come from the
action.

For indoor action shots, a 50mm f/1.8 lens is very low cost (about %70)
and very high performance. Remember, on a 1.6x crop camera,
50 mm is like 80 mm on a full frame camera regarding full field
of view.

Roger

ipy2006 wrote:

Here are some scenarios,
Indoor shooting of people talking with hand gestures, people walking
or pacing in the room, kids playing, women cooking in kitchen, or
groups of people in meeting rooms etc. Sometimes I don't have the
ability to use lights, I need to depend on flash and high brightness
setting. Currently, I am using a Sony Digital Camera, Cyber-shot, DSC-
H2. My budget is $1000 and at the most $1500.

What, you don't take pictures of men cooking in the kitchen?


I read some review that Canon Eos Digital Rebel xTi DSLR is good low
lighting. Nikon D80 was good but the article said more as a available-
light camera.

Please comment.

The rebel xti (400D) has smaller pixels than other rebel cameras,
5.7 microns) (and smaller than many other DSLRs). I don't have
data on the xti, but can see on Figure 6 at
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...rmance.summary
that plotting at 5.7 microns in the gray band, the
performance would probably be below most other DSLRs on the plot.
(If you can't see the gray band on the plot, your monitor
is set too bright/too high contrast.)

Roger

"ipy2006" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have to shoot action photos in low light conditions. What is the
best DSLR for this purpose?
Thanks,
Yip

Probably the best DSLR for your purpose would be the upcoming Canon 1D
mkIII, it shoots 10 fps, has a "silent mode," an ISO range up to3200
expandable to 6400. That being said, a appropriate lens is critical to the
equation. Depending on what the subject is, a 70-200 f2.8 zoom or a fixed
focal length lens like the 100 f2, 85 f1.8 or 85 f1.2 could be excellent
choices. Notice, when you say "best," without saying what you're budget is,
the best is expensive, the body will probably be in the $4000+ range, the
70-200 f2.8 is about $1600, and the 85 f1.2 is about $1200.

--
Skip Middleton
www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
www.pbase.com/skipm

On Mar 7, 9:04 am, "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)"
wrote:
tomm42 wrote:
On Mar 7, 7:03 am, "ipy2006" wrote:
I have to shoot action photos in low light conditions. What is the
best DSLR for this purpose?
Thanks,
Yip

I'd look at a Canon 30D, about the best for a reason able price, the
Canon 5D is better but 3X (approx) the price. Canons seem to have a
heavier in camera noise reduction than the cameras with a Sony sensor.

Not quite. Canon sensors have inherently low noise at low signal
levels. Noise reduction implies some method of reducing noise,
and that can only be done by averaging pixels to reduce
spatial resolution. One can do that in software in post processing.
It helps to have a good low noise/high signal system to begin with.

See:
Digital Cameras: Does Pixel Size Matter?
Factors in Choosing a Digital Camera
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...el.size.matter

Digital Camera Sensor Performance Summary
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...erformance.sum...

For the OP: choose a camera with the largest pixels and the lowest
read noise. The two relevant plots on the digital.sensor.performance.summary
web page are Figure 3 (lower on the plot is better), Figure 6 (higher
on the plot is better) and Figure 7 (higher = better).

Remember you won't get by with a kit lens here. If you are in school
gyms, swimming pools etc you will neeed at least an f2.8 lens. A
70-200 f2.8 pushes $2K. If you buy single focal length lenses 85 -
135mm should cover what you need, just look at lenses that are f1.4-
f2.8, price escalate dramaticly after 135mm. Some claim they get by
with a fast 50mm, doesn't seem long enough for me. An 85 f1.8 or a 135
f2 should be good lenses to look at, depending on the distance of the
action. Just calculate what f-stop and ISO can get you to a shutter
speed of at least 1/250 of a second.
Vibration reduction will be of minimal usefulness you should be at
shutter speeds that don't need it and the blur will come from the
action.

For indoor action shots, a 50mm f/1.8 lens is very low cost (about %70)
and very high performance. Remember, on a 1.6x crop camera,
50 mm is like 80 mm on a full frame camera regarding full field
of view.

Roger

This (1.2) would be a lens to save up for in your situation:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...ode lid=12926

But the 1.4's are about $900 to $1000.

On Mar 7, 9:23 am, "DeanB" wrote:
On Mar 7, 9:04 am, "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)"





wrote:
tomm42 wrote:
On Mar 7, 7:03 am, "ipy2006" wrote:
I have to shoot action photos in low light conditions. What is the
best DSLR for this purpose?
Thanks,
Yip

I'd look at a Canon 30D, about the best for a reason able price, the
Canon 5D is better but 3X (approx) the price. Canons seem to have a
heavier in camera noise reduction than the cameras with a Sony sensor.

Not quite. Canon sensors have inherently low noise at low signal
levels. Noise reduction implies some method of reducing noise,
and that can only be done by averaging pixels to reduce
spatial resolution. One can do that in software in post processing.
It helps to have a good low noise/high signal system to begin with.

See:
Digital Cameras: Does Pixel Size Matter?
Factors in Choosing a Digital Camera
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...el.size.matter

Digital Camera Sensor Performance Summary
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedeta...erformance.sum...

For the OP: choose a camera with the largest pixels and the lowest
read noise. The two relevant plots on the digital.sensor.performance.summary
web page are Figure 3 (lower on the plot is better), Figure 6 (higher
on the plot is better) and Figure 7 (higher = better).

Remember you won't get by with a kit lens here. If you are in school
gyms, swimming pools etc you will neeed at least an f2.8 lens. A
70-200 f2.8 pushes $2K. If you buy single focal length lenses 85 -
135mm should cover what you need, just look at lenses that are f1.4-
f2.8, price escalate dramaticly after 135mm. Some claim they get by
with a fast 50mm, doesn't seem long enough for me. An 85 f1.8 or a 135
f2 should be good lenses to look at, depending on the distance of the
action. Just calculate what f-stop and ISO can get you to a shutter
speed of at least 1/250 of a second.
Vibration reduction will be of minimal usefulness you should be at
shutter speeds that don't need it and the blur will come from the
action.

For indoor action shots, a 50mm f/1.8 lens is very low cost (about %70)
and very high performance. Remember, on a 1.6x crop camera,
50 mm is like 80 mm on a full frame camera regarding full field
of view.

Roger

This (1.2) would be a lens to save up for in your situation:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...etailAct&fcate...

But the 1.4's are about $900 to $1000.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank you all for your feedback.
Yip