GPS

Mxsmanic wrote:

Jeremy Nixon writes:


Can you understand that the needs of the normal consumer looking to buy a
GPS unit don't include a serial port?


The normal consumer doesn't buy GPS units. And among consumers who do
buy GPS units, only a minority are interested in connecting them to a
PC. And within that minority, the number of consumers who do not have a
PC with a serial port is too small to be significant.


I use a Unix command line for many or most things; I wouldn't wish it on
the average computer buyer. When it comes to GPS units, I'm the average
buyer, and I don't want to deal with crap like serial ports. Bluetooth
is the way to go, but USB at a minimum. The only thing I'm going to
hook it up to is a computer, after all, and I'd like that to work with
a minimum of fuss and without having to concern myself with the
technology.


Oddly, the technologies you say you want, even "at a minimum," are
vastly more complicated and unreliable than a simple serial port.


Unfortunately, GPS manufacturers still want to make their stuff an island
of non-interoperability, so I don't have one.


No, they want to build equipment that will interoperate with anything,
not just laptops purchased in the last month.


Someday, one of the companies will discover that normal people
want these things too.


They've already discovered what their customers want, which is why they
are doing so well.

They would have at least ONE more sale of a $400 GPS if they had USB.
And I won't buy another until they DO have something other than a serial
interface with which to transfer data.
An SD card would do.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Jeremy Nixon writes:


Can you understand that the needs of the normal consumer looking to buy a
GPS unit don't include a serial port?


The normal consumer doesn't buy GPS units. And among consumers who do
buy GPS units, only a minority are interested in connecting them to a
PC. And within that minority, the number of consumers who do not have a
PC with a serial port is too small to be significant.


I use a Unix command line for many or most things; I wouldn't wish it on
the average computer buyer. When it comes to GPS units, I'm the average
buyer, and I don't want to deal with crap like serial ports. Bluetooth
is the way to go, but USB at a minimum. The only thing I'm going to
hook it up to is a computer, after all, and I'd like that to work with
a minimum of fuss and without having to concern myself with the
technology.


Oddly, the technologies you say you want, even "at a minimum," are
vastly more complicated and unreliable than a simple serial port.


Unfortunately, GPS manufacturers still want to make their stuff an island
of non-interoperability, so I don't have one.


No, they want to build equipment that will interoperate with anything,
not just laptops purchased in the last month.


Someday, one of the companies will discover that normal people
want these things too.


They've already discovered what their customers want, which is why they
are doing so well.

They would have at least ONE more sale of a $400 GPS if they had USB.
And I won't buy another until they DO have something other than a serial
interface with which to transfer data.
An SD card would do.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Jeremy Nixon writes:


And can you really think that RS-232 is just as easy for a normal person
as USB?


Yes.

Amazing!
So, tell me. For a Supra Modem built in 1998, which pins are active
(necessary), and which are not needed, and what plug type is needed on
each end? What is the maximum baud rate, and what are the start and
stop bits to be set at?
Now a USB user would have the answer for all of those questions, and be
up and online before you figured out which connector, male or female,
was needed, and is it 9 or 25 pin, and which pin is strobe.

In short, you are really WAY off on this one.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Hunter writes:


And a keyboard is the only thing you have on a USB interface?


I have two devices on USB, because that's all they support. One of them
requires that it not share the interface with anything else, which
pretty much blows one of the major advantages touted for USB.

That's out of three computers, too. I have three devices on serial
ports. I have four devices connected via SCSI. I have two devices
connected via PS/2 interfaces.

The keyboard is not among the devices connected via USB, because I like
to keep things simple, and I prefer a keyboard that works no matter what
state the system is in.


It would take dozens of serial ports to equal the data
handling capacity of one USB 2.0 port.


I don't need the data-handling capacity of a USB 2.0 port for the
devices I have connected via serial ports.

No, but in order to transfer megabytes to a GPS, a faster port than
serial (RS232) is highly desirable. Since I no longer get paid to deal
with RS232 ports, and a GPS is a recreational device, I don't intend to
mess with the confusion, and grief of dealing with a serial configuration.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Hunter writes:


And a keyboard is the only thing you have on a USB interface?


I have two devices on USB, because that's all they support. One of them
requires that it not share the interface with anything else, which
pretty much blows one of the major advantages touted for USB.

That's out of three computers, too. I have three devices on serial
ports. I have four devices connected via SCSI. I have two devices
connected via PS/2 interfaces.

The keyboard is not among the devices connected via USB, because I like
to keep things simple, and I prefer a keyboard that works no matter what
state the system is in.


It would take dozens of serial ports to equal the data
handling capacity of one USB 2.0 port.


I don't need the data-handling capacity of a USB 2.0 port for the
devices I have connected via serial ports.

No, but in order to transfer megabytes to a GPS, a faster port than
serial (RS232) is highly desirable. Since I no longer get paid to deal
with RS232 ports, and a GPS is a recreational device, I don't intend to
mess with the confusion, and grief of dealing with a serial configuration.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Hunter writes:


You should play Lotto, you are REALLY lucky. For your own devices, it
might be ok to take chances, but when I work with an employer's
hardware, I follow the rules.


There is no gremlin in serial cables that causes them to blow
interfaces. If you are careful you never have a problem.


There are neat and carefull workers, and there is that other kind.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Hunter writes:


You should play Lotto, you are REALLY lucky. For your own devices, it
might be ok to take chances, but when I work with an employer's
hardware, I follow the rules.


There is no gremlin in serial cables that causes them to blow
interfaces. If you are careful you never have a problem.


There are neat and carefull workers, and there is that other kind.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Jeremy Nixon writes:


The normal consumer doesn't buy GPS units because they're too complicated
and have things like serial ports.


The normal consumer doesn't buy GPS units because he has no use for
them.


Basically every normal consumer I know, apart from my parents, wants a
GPS unit but hasn't bought one because there isn't one made for them.
Myself included.


They just want gadgets. In that case, anything will do.


That's because the only ones they're buying are the ones installed in their
cars.


They aren't much use in the home, since homes hardly ever move.



I use mine on trips. Very handy, and I am never lost with it is with me.


It's hard to find a laptop these days that has one.


Ah, laptops. I wouldn't know, as I've never found a use for a laptop.


I have use for one, but the ease with which one can be stolen, or
damaged has deterred me from buying one.


Desktop computers aren't nearly as relevant since they're not portable.


I can't imagine anyone dragging a laptop around in any situation that
would justify a GPS for navigation.



Huh? How about a person who does research on his ancestry and visits
cemetaries, and other places, like old homes? Being able to pinpoint a
grave is a very useful feature, if one needs to return to it, or
reference it for others.

Tell that to a normal, non-geek person.


They find that out for themselves.


And the average consumer doesn't *care* about the technical potential to
interoperate with anything given enough work.


A lot of GPS buyers are not average consumers.

True, and will remain true until GPS receivers become easier to use, and
getting rid of a complex and bothersome (and SLOW) RS232 serial port
sure would HELP.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Jeremy Nixon writes:


The normal consumer doesn't buy GPS units because they're too complicated
and have things like serial ports.


The normal consumer doesn't buy GPS units because he has no use for
them.


Basically every normal consumer I know, apart from my parents, wants a
GPS unit but hasn't bought one because there isn't one made for them.
Myself included.


They just want gadgets. In that case, anything will do.


That's because the only ones they're buying are the ones installed in their
cars.


They aren't much use in the home, since homes hardly ever move.



I use mine on trips. Very handy, and I am never lost with it is with me.


It's hard to find a laptop these days that has one.


Ah, laptops. I wouldn't know, as I've never found a use for a laptop.


I have use for one, but the ease with which one can be stolen, or
damaged has deterred me from buying one.


Desktop computers aren't nearly as relevant since they're not portable.


I can't imagine anyone dragging a laptop around in any situation that
would justify a GPS for navigation.



Huh? How about a person who does research on his ancestry and visits
cemetaries, and other places, like old homes? Being able to pinpoint a
grave is a very useful feature, if one needs to return to it, or
reference it for others.

Tell that to a normal, non-geek person.


They find that out for themselves.


And the average consumer doesn't *care* about the technical potential to
interoperate with anything given enough work.


A lot of GPS buyers are not average consumers.

True, and will remain true until GPS receivers become easier to use, and
getting rid of a complex and bothersome (and SLOW) RS232 serial port
sure would HELP.

In article , Ron Hunter
writes
Mxsmanic wrote:

Jeremy Nixon writes:

And can you really think that RS-232 is just as easy for a normal
person
as USB?
Yes.

Amazing!
So, tell me. For a Supra Modem built in 1998, which pins are active
(necessary), and which are not needed, and what plug type is needed on
each end? What is the maximum baud rate, and what are the start and
stop bits to be set at?
Now a USB user would have the answer for all of those questions, and be
up and online before you figured out which connector, male or female,
was needed, and is it 9 or 25 pin, and which pin is strobe.

In short, you are really WAY off on this one.

You are amazing! We were discussing a connecting a GPS receiver to a PC.
The GPS Rx has only three data pins (TD, RD, GND), the start, stop, data
and parity are fixed, the cable with the correct connectors if not
supplied with it is on the hook next to it in the shop, the supplied
software sets the PC for these parameters and can not be altered by the
user. It is possible for the user to mismatch the Bd rate and the
protocol at the two ends, but that is because the international standard
for communicating with GPS devices has been revised and your new
receiver must be backward compatible. Have you used a GPS with a PC?
Have you used a GPS with other serial equipment? I have, I connect them,
they work; the work because nothing needs changing.

Besides a sub-miniature Dee connector is far more rugged for field use
that a USB.

In short you have no idea.
--
Ian G8ILZ