Lazy people and "smartphones" continue to erode P&S sales

On 3/2/12 10:43 AM, in article ,
"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote:

George Kerby wrote:

Folks just love to hate success don't they?

Of course, since the protestant work ethics (what you get and
are is because you've been good/bad and thus deserve it) causes
self hate in those who don't see themselves as successful and
the self hate can be channelised onto those who have success
(and are thus better in the eye of God).

However, this mechanism doesn't depend on protestant work
ethics ... it's present in katholic areas just as well.

-Wolfgang

Dim-ocrats as well. ;-)

On 2012-03-03 09:38 , tony cooper wrote:

Some banks (credit unions, in the US, are considered to be banks) do
not charge a monthly fee or any fees on transactions. Mine doesn't.

The bank has use of money on deposit and can profit from using that
money. They loan out that money and make a profit from interest on
automobile, mortgage, and personal loans. Their interest rates are
competitive with the interest rates of other institutions.

Many US banks are notorious for abusive charges on overdrawn accounts.
There are instances where someone is overdrawn by a few dollars, that
results in non-payments or the small payment accompanied by an excessive
fee and high interest. It's unstable and prone to runaway. People
would even rather have a charge denied when over drawn, but the banks
would rather the account over draw and then sock the customer with fees
and usurious interest.

I [1] pay a monthly fee ($13) for which I get a list of services w/o
further charge. That includes overdraft protection to $1000 at a
nominal interest rate. (eg: overdraft of $100 covered the next day
costs pennies), and various other services and abilities. As I keep a
nominally low amount in my chequing account (better interest in other
accounts), this covers me if I buy something and forget to transfer the
cash on the same day, or if a payment goes through for which I haven't
transferred cash in (mortgage, insurance mainly).

[1] Then, by keeping $2500 minimal balance in a particular savings
account, the $13 is waived. (I earn more on the non-payment than on the
interest).

There's a big difference in service structures between the US and
Canada. (Or the US and everywhere).

--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

On 2012-03-03 11:05 , tony cooper wrote:
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 10:23:11 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2012-03-03 09:38 , tony cooper wrote:

Some banks (credit unions, in the US, are considered to be banks) do
not charge a monthly fee or any fees on transactions. Mine doesn't.

The bank has use of money on deposit and can profit from using that
money. They loan out that money and make a profit from interest on
automobile, mortgage, and personal loans. Their interest rates are
competitive with the interest rates of other institutions.

Many US banks are notorious for abusive charges on overdrawn accounts.
There are instances where someone is overdrawn by a few dollars, that
results in non-payments or the small payment accompanied by an excessive
fee and high interest. It's unstable and prone to runaway. People
would even rather have a charge denied when over drawn, but the banks
would rather the account over draw and then sock the customer with fees
and usurious interest.

I agree, but that kind of fee is avoidable. It is not a fee that all
customers of that bank pay. It's the same with a loan - whether from
a bank or another institution - in that there may be late fees that
make a very attractive rate of interest turn into an expensive deal.
Again, though, the fees are avoidable.

I used to avoid fees by keeping fat balances in 2 accounts (Back then I
only had 2). With travel, paying bills by mail/cheque, a new house,
credit cards (mine, companies), there was more to manage and less day to
day certainty over chequing balance. (In those days, amounts could be
automatically transferred from savings to chequing on an overdraft. I
don't recall if there was a service charge).

There was a lack of visibility cost. I would walk over to the bank at
least 2x per week (lunch hour crowd) to check on things.

I hardly go there anymore.

I [1] pay a monthly fee ($13) for which I get a list of services w/o
further charge. That includes overdraft protection to $1000 at a
nominal interest rate. (eg: overdraft of $100 covered the next day
costs pennies), and various other services and abilities. As I keep a
nominally low amount in my chequing account (better interest in other
accounts), this covers me if I buy something and forget to transfer the
cash on the same day, or if a payment goes through for which I haven't
transferred cash in (mortgage, insurance mainly).

My credit union allows me to have a regular checking account with no
fees, a "money market" account that pays interest, and free transfer
of money from the money market account to my checking account in case
of overdraft in my checking account. The bank also will transfer
overdrafts to my credit card with that bank. Regular interest rates
apply to the credit card.

[1] Then, by keeping $2500 minimal balance in a particular savings
account, the $13 is waived. (I earn more on the non-payment than on the
interest).

No minimum is required by my credit union if I have at least one
direct deposit. My social security check is direct deposited.

Credit unions are less prevalent here though more popular in the west (I
think).

There's a big difference in service structures between the US and
Canada. (Or the US and everywhere).

There's a big difference between one US bank and another. Savvy
customers shop around for the best deal.

I'm sure. My main concern would be avoiding "trapdoor" banks where
things can go out of hand for a minor error.

In Canada there are 7 major banks and most people have their accounts
with one of them.

--
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did.
I said I didn't know."
-Samuel Clemens.

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

expense of the type of phone required to this. nospam doesn't seem to
understand that not everyone has the same requirements, and that if
you don't embrace what he does you are technologically backwards.

Nospam doesn't understand that not everyone wants, needs or
has use for an iPhone.

i never said everyone wants or needs an iphone.

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

So your banks offer free bank transfers, which everyone can
receive for free (at least inside of the US) so they can choose
between cheques and that?

some do.

In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

there's no need to
carry multiple terabytes everywhere you go.

I've been on the end of enough low bandwidth connections,
instable connections and no connection possible cases to know
you're producing a lot of hot air.

you need access to every single file all the time?

How long does your connection take to upload multiple terabytes?

there's no need to upload it anywhere. it's all accessible as it is, on
my desktop system. at any time, i can connect to it and get at whatever
i happen to need, or, use remote desktop software to start a task that
completes by the time i get home.

it's also well locked down, more so than many online storage systems,
such as dropbox where *any* password would allow access for a brief
time a year or so ago. oops.

Touchscreens are only good for a very limited time and limited
interaction, as it's imprecise, not very fast and tiring to use
over a longer time ...

nobody said they're good for all tasks. for many tasks, they're well
suited, if not more so, than a keyboard and mouse.

Aha. Guess you can name 10. Maybe 20.
Guess there are 10.000 or 20.000 tasks daily solved with
keyboards and mice.

it's much more than 10-20, but that's not the point.

not only that, but a location aware tablet or phone can wake from sleep
to alert the user depending on their location (a geofence) or other
event (e.g., weather alert).

And that's not possible with a laptop, because ... ?
Ah, because smartphones are not computers -- they are abacusses.

it's possible to write a book with a manual typewriter too. it doesn't
mean it's the best choice.

It is a good choice --- given a good manual typewriter ---
compared to, say, touch screen typing.

what if what you want to do does not require typing at all?

But you still don't grasp that smartphones are computers with
special needs (low power, small, tiny screen, usually no and
certainly no proper keyboard, ...) and that there's nothing
a smartphone can do that cannot be done on a larger computer,
unless the tiny size is absolutely needed.

entirely missing the point.

maybe you can contort your desktop computer to do the same things a
smartphone or tablet can, including writing the software that doesn't
exist and plugging in various accessories for the missing hardware, but
it rapidly becomes clumsy or impractical.

furthermore, the 'tiny size' can be the key differentiating feature. my
phone is always with me. my laptop is not.

like the saying goes, the best computer is the one you have with you.

have always-on internet with push alerts,

And laptops cannot have that because of your imagination?

which laptop can receive push alerts over 3g while it's sleeping?

It's the same problem as with mobile phones.

no it most definitely is not.

Yes, it most definitely is. Try sleeping your 3g part on the
mobile (usually called airplane mode) and try to receive push
alerts.

that's not sleeping, that's turning the 3g radio completely off.

nevertheless, wifi can be used in airplane mode and push notifications
will still arrive.

does
it also have a motor to lift the screen so you can see the alert?

Same as any flip mobile phone.

smartphones don't flip.

Liar.

http://pocketnow.com/android/sharp-i...d-clamshell-sm
artphone

wow. one android phone out of over 800 android devices so far, and it
looks like it's only available in japan too.

if you sleep the laptop, the 3g card is powered *off*.

Just as with your mobile phone.

wrong. 3g is always on, otherwise it would not be able to get calls,
text messages or push notifications.

see above, airplane mode.

see above. that's not sleep, that's turning it off. how well does your
laptop work for getting push alerts with wifi turned off and its
ethernet cable unplugged?

You don't 'sleep' your mobile
phone the same way you sleep a laptop;

yes i do.

You have your phone permanently in airplane mode?

once again, airplane mode is *not* sleep. in airplane mode, the 3g
radio is *off*.

Whether they use flash, magnetic drums, bubble memory or
whatever else to take the place a HD fills in a computer (and
whether that HD in a computer is based on magnetized rotating
platters or trapped electrons) is immaterial.

then you won't mind if your laptop is subject to strong magnetic fields
or shock from being dropped.

Since it has a flash based HD ...

because all laptops have ssd now. oh wait. they don't.

slow processors,

actually quite fast. in fact, an ipad running imovie outperforms some
desktops. quite a bit is done on the gpu, not the processor.

Sure, an iPad running iMovie will kill a 20 year old desktop.

actually, an ipad running imovie outperforms many current systems at
some things due to its cpu & gpu.

These "many current systems" are 5 year old low end "office"
systems with an onboard graphics card.

no, these 'many current systems' really are current, as in buy today,
including high end imacs and mac pros.

that does not mean that an ipad would outperform *everything* a mac pro
can do (how absurd), but for some tasks it does, and that alone is
impressive. furthermore, not everyone needs to do high end video
render.

the point is that a tablet is not a low end crippled system you try to
make it out to be. for some tasks, it's the best solution.

there's an astronomy app where you can just hold the ipad (or iphone)
up to the sky and it shows you the stars you are looking at in the sky
behind it. as you turn to look at other stars, the display scrolls to
bring those stars into view on its display. tap any star and find out
what it is.

that is not possible on a laptop, or at best, it's incredibly
difficult, clumsy and convoluted.

Cameras and some code are impossible to add to laptops,
that's what you are saying?

the fact you have to add cameras and code proves my point.

Actually, you have to add code to the iPad or iPhone as well,
or is that app pre-installed on every iPad and iPhone? (Are
you trying for the dimwit grand prize?)

except that you *can't* write such an app for a laptop unless you
require specific hardware to be added, and at best, it's going to be
very clumsy.

You're a great comedian.
"specific hardware to be added"!
Great!
Tops even your "have to add [...] code"

Specific hardware ... like ... the inbuild camera ... most
laptops have one ...

the laptop camera is facing the wrong way if you want to do augmented
reality.

sure, you can get a mirror attachment, and then plug in a gps, and then
add in a 3g card, and then add whatever else is missing. eventually,
you get a system that might be able to do what a tablet does, but
nowhere near as easily or as elegantly.

meanwhile, *any* ipad can do it.

Nope.
* broken
* empty battery
* "no code added"
* at day
* ceiling in the way

broken? seriously?? how well does your laptop work if it's broken? what
a ridiculous comment. comparing a broken ipad to a working laptop to
prove a laptop is better is ludicrous.

As to the camera --- yes, many laptops *do* have it inbuild.
So it has been (successfully) added by the manufacturer.
Just as with the iPad or iPhone.

except that the laptop's camera is facing the wrong way for an
astronomy app and holding a laptop to look at stars in the sky and
rotating it as needed is rather awkward.

So you think. I'd come up with 2 mirrors or an USB camera
--- you *do* have USB on your iPad, right? --- and just point
the camera, where *you* have to hold your iPad overhead. Try
that for a few minutes and you know how tiring that is.

try holding your laptop overhead and then try to use the trackpad to
control it. that's even more tiring.

this is without question, a task that tablets do *much* better than
laptops ever could.

Every tablet has astronomy apps, every tablet has a back
camera? Sure. And the moon's made out of cheese.

every ipad and iphone has astronomy apps available and i'm sure android
has similar offerings. a rear facing camera is not required but if it's
there, it can be used.

George Kerby wrote:
"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote:

[...]

But, the REAL question here is can you fix your clock?

The times are accurate to the second. Do you need the logs to
prove that?

All of your post seem late, for some reason unbeknownst to me...

The timestamps posted doesn't mean immediate transmission to the
NNTP server. There's no round the clock connectivity guaranteed
and the system's designed for fast batch transmission.

-Wolfgang

nospam wrote:
In article , Wolfgang
Weisselberg wrote:

there's no need to
carry multiple terabytes everywhere you go.

I've been on the end of enough low bandwidth connections,
instable connections and no connection possible cases to know
you're producing a lot of hot air.

you need access to every single file all the time?

No, I need access to files.
Without knowing beforehand to *which* group of files.
These groups can be arbitrary large.

Which means that the only way to secure access is to actually
carry all these files with me in these conditions.


How long does your connection take to upload multiple terabytes?

there's no need to upload it anywhere. it's all accessible as it is, on
my desktop system. at any time, i can connect to it and get at whatever
i happen to need, or, use remote desktop software to start a task that
completes by the time i get home.

Ah, a windows user.

I can do the same and more, but this doesn't work well enough
for low (say ... 4KB/s) or no connection situations.

How fast is the upload from your home, say, for 20+ GB --- not
that much for RAWs of a single event.


interaction, as it's imprecise, not very fast and tiring to use
over a longer time ...

nobody said they're good for all tasks. for many tasks, they're well
suited, if not more so, than a keyboard and mouse.

Aha. Guess you can name 10. Maybe 20.
Guess there are 10.000 or 20.000 tasks daily solved with
keyboards and mice.

it's much more than 10-20, but that's not the point.

The point is you cannot name even 10?


not only that, but a location aware tablet or phone can wake from sleep
to alert the user depending on their location (a geofence) or other
event (e.g., weather alert).

And that's not possible with a laptop, because ... ?
Ah, because smartphones are not computers -- they are abacusses.

it's possible to write a book with a manual typewriter too. it doesn't
mean it's the best choice.

It is a good choice --- given a good manual typewriter ---
compared to, say, touch screen typing.

what if what you want to do does not require typing at all?

Bibble, ah, AfterShotPro can be driven in large parts by keyboard.
Doesn't require typing, does work better with a keyboard then
with a touchscreen.

Mythtv, frontend is completely keyboard driven (and thus mapping
IR remote keys to keyboard --- oops, already done by nice people
--- works well). How does a touchscreen activate "jump past
adblock", "stop playing", "fast forward", "switch to edit mode",
"open menu", etc.?
Wouldn't that need first touching the screen and then a huge
overlay blocking most of the screen to select the function?
(Sure, a keyboard's not perfect, a IR remote's much better for
the TV (though not for e.g. the laptop), but a touchscreen would
mean standing up every time and touching the TV ...)

Submarine simulation. Many functions which should be accessible
without delay (emergency dive, fire bolds, etc.) and yet not
need lots of screen space.


But you still don't grasp that smartphones are computers with
special needs (low power, small, tiny screen, usually no and
certainly no proper keyboard, ...) and that there's nothing
a smartphone can do that cannot be done on a larger computer,
unless the tiny size is absolutely needed.

entirely missing the point.

maybe you can contort your desktop computer to do the same things a
smartphone or tablet can, including writing the software that doesn't
exist and plugging in various accessories for the missing hardware, but
it rapidly becomes clumsy or impractical.

Software exists. Just install the Android SDK and development
environment and run the apps. Presto: a whole Android world ...

The "missing" hardware? What would that be? Have you lately
added a terrabyte harddrive to your phone? Or a huge screen?
Or a proper keyboard? Maybe a graphics pen which also measures
tilt & co? A tape drive? A Gigabit Ethernet connection?
A spectrometer? A printer or two?

Phones are *much* more limited and desktops and (to a lesser part)
laptops can be customized to exactly the parts needed, while in
phones you have to buy a packet and pay for everything, whether
you need it or not, and with hardly any way to add hardware.

Hence: You can add everything a phone has to a proper computer,
but not vice versa. Clumsy? You can buy a computer that has
all that you need build in.


furthermore, the 'tiny size' can be the key differentiating feature. my
phone is always with me. my laptop is not.

There are many phones that are not "smart" (and enough where you
cannot even add software). Enough people have them with them.

like the saying goes, the best computer is the one you have with you.

Actually, no. The best computer is the one you can connect to.
You're the proponent of always-connected ... and I have to tell
you that?


have always-on internet with push alerts,

And laptops cannot have that because of your imagination?

which laptop can receive push alerts over 3g while it's sleeping?

It's the same problem as with mobile phones.

no it most definitely is not.

Yes, it most definitely is. Try sleeping your 3g part on the
mobile (usually called airplane mode) and try to receive push
alerts.

that's not sleeping, that's turning the 3g radio completely off.

And that happens when you sleep.
But of course you can modify your computer's software (or have
someone do trhat) so that the 3g radio is not shut down and
generates an interrupt that wakes up the system enough to handle
push alerts and wake up further if needed to act upon them.

nevertheless, wifi can be used in airplane mode

That very much depends on whether wifi is allowed in planes.

and push notifications will still arrive.

So? You can leave also wifi on and ... see above.

Actually, you can have your computer sleeping deeply and just have
the wifi unit relay data from one other computer to a second other
computer (available out of the box with some computers I have)
--- and I haven't heard of phones implementing that yet.


does
it also have a motor to lift the screen so you can see the alert?

Same as any flip mobile phone.

smartphones don't flip.

Liar.

http://pocketnow.com/android/sharp-i...d-clamshell-sm
artphone

wow. one android phone out of over 800 android devices so far, and it
looks like it's only available in japan too.

Wow, you think there are no murderers, millionaires, brain surgeons
and so on and so on because out of over 800 people you checked
there were none.


if you sleep the laptop, the 3g card is powered *off*.

Just as with your mobile phone.

wrong. 3g is always on, otherwise it would not be able to get calls,
text messages or push notifications.

see above, airplane mode.

see above. that's not sleep, that's turning it off.

Let's say the 3g sleeps. OK?

how well does your
laptop work for getting push alerts with wifi turned off and its
ethernet cable unplugged?

Very well, with the 3g turned on.


You don't 'sleep' your mobile
phone the same way you sleep a laptop;

yes i do.

You have your phone permanently in airplane mode?

once again, airplane mode is *not* sleep. in airplane mode, the 3g
radio is *off*.

So you agree you don't 'sleep' your mobile phone the same way
you sleep a laptop. Thank you very much.


Whether they use flash, magnetic drums, bubble memory or
whatever else to take the place a HD fills in a computer (and
whether that HD in a computer is based on magnetized rotating
platters or trapped electrons) is immaterial.

then you won't mind if your laptop is subject to strong magnetic fields
or shock from being dropped.

Since it has a flash based HD ...

because all laptops have ssd now. oh wait. they don't.

************
You did not ask about "all laptops". You said "... if *** your ***
********** ************
laptop is subject ..." and *** my *** laptop *has* an SSD. OK?
**********


slow processors,

actually quite fast. in fact, an ipad running imovie outperforms some
desktops. quite a bit is done on the gpu, not the processor.

Sure, an iPad running iMovie will kill a 20 year old desktop.

actually, an ipad running imovie outperforms many current systems at
some things due to its cpu & gpu.

These "many current systems" are 5 year old low end "office"
systems with an onboard graphics card.

no, these 'many current systems' really are current, as in buy today,
including high end imacs and mac pros.

Name some.


that does not mean that an ipad would outperform *everything* a mac pro
can do (how absurd), but for some tasks it does, and that alone is
impressive.

Sure. Impressive. BTW, most analog computers compute instantly
and thus much much faster than digital computers.

furthermore, not everyone needs to do high end video
render.

But you need to *pay* for it in every iPad.


the point is that a tablet is not a low end crippled system you try to
make it out to be. for some tasks, it's the best solution.

Non sequitur. For some tasks, a low end crippled system is
the best solution.


there's an astronomy app where you can just hold the ipad (or iphone)
up to the sky and it shows you the stars you are looking at in the sky
behind it. as you turn to look at other stars, the display scrolls to
bring those stars into view on its display. tap any star and find out
what it is.

that is not possible on a laptop, or at best, it's incredibly
difficult, clumsy and convoluted.

Cameras and some code are impossible to add to laptops,
that's what you are saying?

the fact you have to add cameras and code proves my point.

Actually, you have to add code to the iPad or iPhone as well,
or is that app pre-installed on every iPad and iPhone? (Are
you trying for the dimwit grand prize?)

except that you *can't* write such an app for a laptop unless you
require specific hardware to be added, and at best, it's going to be
very clumsy.

You're a great comedian.
"specific hardware to be added"!
Great!
Tops even your "have to add [...] code"

Specific hardware ... like ... the inbuild camera ... most
laptops have one ...

the laptop camera is facing the wrong way if you want to do augmented
reality.

If you say so.

sure, you can get a mirror attachment, and then plug in a gps, and then
add in a 3g card, and then add whatever else is missing. eventually,
you get a system that might be able to do what a tablet does, but
nowhere near as easily or as elegantly.

In fact, my laptop does have a 3g card and a gps and a camera,
so at most I need to add a simple mirror attachment.


meanwhile, *any* ipad can do it.

Nope.
* broken
* empty battery
* "no code added"
* at day
* ceiling in the way

broken? seriously?? how well does your laptop work if it's broken?

I never claimed *any* laptop could do it ...

what
a ridiculous comment. comparing a broken ipad to a working laptop to
prove a laptop is better is ludicrous.

Who claimed *any* ipad could do it? *ANY* including broken ones,
with empty battery ones, without the necessary app, at day,
indoors, ... you claimed that! YOU.


As to the camera --- yes, many laptops *do* have it inbuild.
So it has been (successfully) added by the manufacturer.
Just as with the iPad or iPhone.

except that the laptop's camera is facing the wrong way for an
astronomy app and holding a laptop to look at stars in the sky and
rotating it as needed is rather awkward.

So you think. I'd come up with 2 mirrors or an USB camera
--- you *do* have USB on your iPad, right? --- and just point
the camera, where *you* have to hold your iPad overhead. Try
that for a few minutes and you know how tiring that is.

try holding your laptop overhead and then try to use the trackpad to
control it. that's even more tiring.

I'd use a movable camera which is lighter, and a trackpoint
instead.


this is without question, a task that tablets do *much* better than
laptops ever could.

Every tablet has astronomy apps, every tablet has a back
camera? Sure. And the moon's made out of cheese.

every ipad and iphone has astronomy apps available

And there are only Apple Pads?


and i'm sure android has similar offerings.

And there are only Apple and Android Pads?


a rear facing camera is not required but if it's
there, it can be used.

But ... with a laptop that's a critical failing re augmented
reality. With a Pad it's not a problem. Fancy that ...

-Wolfgang

On 3/13/12 7:14 AM, in article ,
"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote:

George Kerby wrote:
"Wolfgang Weisselberg" wrote:

[...]

But, the REAL question here is can you fix your clock?

The times are accurate to the second. Do you need the logs to
prove that?

All of your post seem late, for some reason unbeknownst to me...

The timestamps posted doesn't mean immediate transmission to the
NNTP server. There's no round the clock connectivity guaranteed
and the system's designed for fast batch transmission.

-Wolfgang

OK. Thanks for the explanation.