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id11/d76 today alternative: Hc110 or Xtol? Or both?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 25th 04, 10:48 PM
stefano bramato
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Default id11/d76 today alternative: Hc110 or Xtol? Or both?

hi People!!
I stuck with id-11 since more than ten years (but sometimes I prefer
Microphen...) and always i felt very comfortable when developing in this
soup every kind of my rolls. 120 or 135 no matter.
So i'm searching another two developers to stuck on, for next hard
years...
But now, due the Ilford' bad times i want to experiment new ways.

Someone sugested me Ilfosol (but many many others dsay to me that is a
crap) and ascorbic developers. In many tests I was niced to try Ilfosol
at 1+14.
Now i was googling, so many so nice words for HC110. Some of your fresh
experiments or suggestions?

but the real curiosity is for me xtol: ascorbic acid is more
enviromental friendly but yet enough good to have id-11 results if not
nicer. One xtol-pack is on the way, just ordered, but i need so many
frsh suggestiins also for this developer.

Can someone help me? Few words are happily enough and well accepted!!


have a nice life,
Stefano

PS: someone surely wiser than me write "hey matey, is time to make your
soup with your hands.... c'mon" but i'm still worried!
--
Non è bello cio che è bello figuriamoci cio che è brutto!
  #2  
Old October 25th 04, 11:26 PM
Donald Qualls
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Default

stefano bramato wrote:

Now i was googling, so many so nice words for HC110. Some of your fresh
experiments or suggestions?


I can't say anything about XTOL, but I've used HC-110 almost exclusively
for the past nine months. I've used Dilution B, but mostly use Dilution
H (half strength of B) and Dilution G. I like Dilution G because it
gives me easy, direct control of contrast; if I give little or no
agitation, I get strong compensation, contrast control in the
highlights, and nice shadows. If I give more agitation, I can get any
contrast I like up to about N+1 without changing development time -- for
TMY, 15 minutes at 70 F (your time will probably be longer; mine run
very short compared to what I see others post). Since the dev time
doesn't change, I don't have to worry about gaining or losing speed as I
change the contrast of development. As a bonus, the grain pattern of
TMY in Dilution H is crisp and even, but smooth rather than gritty, and
shows up in reasonable scan sizes only when cropping below 35 mm frame
dimension.

--
The challenge to the photographer is to command the medium, to use
whatever current equipment and technology furthers his creative
objectives, without sacrificing the ability to make his own decisions.
-- Ansel Adams

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.
  #3  
Old October 25th 04, 11:49 PM
stefano bramato
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Posts: n/a
Default

Ah, però! Donald Qualls ha scritto due cosette forse interessanti...
stefano bramato wrote:

Now i was googling, so many so nice words for HC110. Some of your fresh
experiments or suggestions?


I can't say anything about XTOL, but I've used HC-110 almost exclusively
for the past nine months. I've used Dilution B, but mostly use Dilution
H (half strength of B) and Dilution G. I like Dilution G because it
gives me easy, direct control of contrast; if I give little or no
agitation, I get strong compensation, contrast control in the
highlights, and nice shadows. If I give more agitation, I can get any
contrast I like up to about N+1 without changing development time -- for
TMY, 15 minutes at 70 F (your time will probably be longer; mine run
very short compared to what I see others post). Since the dev time
doesn't change, I don't have to worry about gaining or losing speed as I
change the contrast of development. As a bonus, the grain pattern of
TMY in Dilution H is crisp and even, but smooth rather than gritty, and
shows up in reasonable scan sizes only when cropping below 35 mm frame
dimension.



your words seems to be so comfortable...
I was right now reading about strong dilutions in covington site and
seem to be a point of step ahead for hc110.
Thanks Donald you're always so gentle.

Ciao,
Stefano

--
Non è bello cio che è bello figuriamoci cio che è brutto!
  #4  
Old October 25th 04, 11:49 PM
stefano bramato
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ah, però! Donald Qualls ha scritto due cosette forse interessanti...
stefano bramato wrote:

Now i was googling, so many so nice words for HC110. Some of your fresh
experiments or suggestions?


I can't say anything about XTOL, but I've used HC-110 almost exclusively
for the past nine months. I've used Dilution B, but mostly use Dilution
H (half strength of B) and Dilution G. I like Dilution G because it
gives me easy, direct control of contrast; if I give little or no
agitation, I get strong compensation, contrast control in the
highlights, and nice shadows. If I give more agitation, I can get any
contrast I like up to about N+1 without changing development time -- for
TMY, 15 minutes at 70 F (your time will probably be longer; mine run
very short compared to what I see others post). Since the dev time
doesn't change, I don't have to worry about gaining or losing speed as I
change the contrast of development. As a bonus, the grain pattern of
TMY in Dilution H is crisp and even, but smooth rather than gritty, and
shows up in reasonable scan sizes only when cropping below 35 mm frame
dimension.



your words seems to be so comfortable...
I was right now reading about strong dilutions in covington site and
seem to be a point of step ahead for hc110.
Thanks Donald you're always so gentle.

Ciao,
Stefano

--
Non è bello cio che è bello figuriamoci cio che è brutto!
  #5  
Old October 26th 04, 10:06 AM
Claudio Bonavolta
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Posts: n/a
Default

stefano bramato wrote in message . it...
hi People!!
I stuck with id-11 since more than ten years (but sometimes I prefer
Microphen...) and always i felt very comfortable when developing in this
soup every kind of my rolls. 120 or 135 no matter.
So i'm searching another two developers to stuck on, for next hard
years...
But now, due the Ilford' bad times i want to experiment new ways.

Someone sugested me Ilfosol (but many many others dsay to me that is a
crap) and ascorbic developers. In many tests I was niced to try Ilfosol
at 1+14.
Now i was googling, so many so nice words for HC110. Some of your fresh
experiments or suggestions?

but the real curiosity is for me xtol: ascorbic acid is more
enviromental friendly but yet enough good to have id-11 results if not
nicer. One xtol-pack is on the way, just ordered, but i need so many
frsh suggestiins also for this developer.

Can someone help me? Few words are happily enough and well accepted!!


have a nice life,
Stefano

PS: someone surely wiser than me write "hey matey, is time to make your
soup with your hands.... c'mon" but i'm still worried!


Ciao,

Well, ID-11 will certainly be available again once Ilford's actual
troubles are gone.
By the way, if the worst happens, Kodak D-76 is very similar to ID-11
and will give you the same results.

I can't give you informations regarding HC-110, I've never used it.

Regarding X-Tol, well, that's the developer I mostly use for
low/medium speed films (up to 1600ISO).
In 35mm, I usually dilute it 1+1, for larger negs you can go 1+3
(coarser grain but more acutance).
I consider it as one of the best compromises between fine-grain (finer
than D-76/ID-11), acutance and speed.
Properly mixed and stored, the stock solution can last very long:
I diluted a 5 liters pack in March 2002 and it still gives good
results, more than 2 years and a half after (much longer than what
Kodak states).
I keep some to see if it can reach the 3 years ...

I prepare it this way:
- demineralized water
- part A *must* be fully diluted before adding part B, ambient
temperature water is used.
- stir without inserting air in the mixture
- brown glass bottles (pharmacy kind) fully filled (4x 1-liter + the
rest in 100ml)
- once the 100ml bottles are all empty, I fill them again with one
1-liter bottle
- 100ml is the minimum quantity for a 135-36 roll
- the 100ml bottles contain slightly more, as I use it 1+1, I just add
some more water to fill completely the bottle, then I complete up to
200ml for processing.
- bottles stored in the dark

Un salutone,
Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch
  #6  
Old October 26th 04, 10:45 AM
Richard Knoppow
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Posts: n/a
Default

stefano bramato wrote in message . it...
hi People!!
I stuck with id-11 since more than ten years (but sometimes I prefer
Microphen...) and always i felt very comfortable when developing in this
soup every kind of my rolls. 120 or 135 no matter.
So i'm searching another two developers to stuck on, for next hard
years...
But now, due the Ilford' bad times i want to experiment new ways.

Someone sugested me Ilfosol (but many many others dsay to me that is a
crap) and ascorbic developers. In many tests I was niced to try Ilfosol
at 1+14.
Now i was googling, so many so nice words for HC110. Some of your fresh
experiments or suggestions?

but the real curiosity is for me xtol: ascorbic acid is more
enviromental friendly but yet enough good to have id-11 results if not
nicer. One xtol-pack is on the way, just ordered, but i need so many
frsh suggestiins also for this developer.

Can someone help me? Few words are happily enough and well accepted!!


have a nice life,
Stefano

PS: someone surely wiser than me write "hey matey, is time to make your
soup with your hands.... c'mon" but i'm still worried!



Xtol is a very good developer. It gives slightly finer grain and
slightly more film speed than D-76 or ID-11. HC-110 is a versitile and
reliable developer but gives slightly coarser grain and slightly less
film speed than D-76. T-Max and T-Max RS are also quite reliable, give
maximum film speed but are again grainier than D-76 although not much.
There are other good developers on the market but these, and Rodinal,
are the ones I mainly have experience with. If I were to choose a
single developer for the best combination of qualities it would be
Xtol. Actually, D-76/ID-11 is hard to beat which it has been the
standard of comparison for nearly eighty years.

Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

  #7  
Old October 26th 04, 10:45 AM
Richard Knoppow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

stefano bramato wrote in message . it...
hi People!!
I stuck with id-11 since more than ten years (but sometimes I prefer
Microphen...) and always i felt very comfortable when developing in this
soup every kind of my rolls. 120 or 135 no matter.
So i'm searching another two developers to stuck on, for next hard
years...
But now, due the Ilford' bad times i want to experiment new ways.

Someone sugested me Ilfosol (but many many others dsay to me that is a
crap) and ascorbic developers. In many tests I was niced to try Ilfosol
at 1+14.
Now i was googling, so many so nice words for HC110. Some of your fresh
experiments or suggestions?

but the real curiosity is for me xtol: ascorbic acid is more
enviromental friendly but yet enough good to have id-11 results if not
nicer. One xtol-pack is on the way, just ordered, but i need so many
frsh suggestiins also for this developer.

Can someone help me? Few words are happily enough and well accepted!!


have a nice life,
Stefano

PS: someone surely wiser than me write "hey matey, is time to make your
soup with your hands.... c'mon" but i'm still worried!



Xtol is a very good developer. It gives slightly finer grain and
slightly more film speed than D-76 or ID-11. HC-110 is a versitile and
reliable developer but gives slightly coarser grain and slightly less
film speed than D-76. T-Max and T-Max RS are also quite reliable, give
maximum film speed but are again grainier than D-76 although not much.
There are other good developers on the market but these, and Rodinal,
are the ones I mainly have experience with. If I were to choose a
single developer for the best combination of qualities it would be
Xtol. Actually, D-76/ID-11 is hard to beat which it has been the
standard of comparison for nearly eighty years.

Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA

  #8  
Old October 27th 04, 11:54 PM
Michael A. Covington
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Posts: n/a
Default


"PGG" wrote in message
newsan.2004.10.27.17.15.11.938000@NO_SP_A_Myahoo .com...

- Xtol is awesome. I get full-film speed. Grain is minimal. I really
like the results with Tmax. Some say it produces Tmax negatives that
aren't "sharp". I guess I agree with this, but I like the look
regardless. No grain visible with Tmax 100 when making a 11x14 print.


For sharper edges in the image, use diluted Xtol (less solvent action).


  #9  
Old October 28th 04, 09:22 AM
Ecolar
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Default

I have used both HC110 and XTol.

HC110 gives less sharp negatives than XTol, but you may better push the
development with HC110 (or even better with TMAX).

I have found that using distilled water instead of tap water can make a
great difference in the reproducibility of your results. Also, I am using
XTol 1:3 dilution in most cases, that provides very good results, nice
shadow ranges and it is very very cheap (plus, XTol can be stored -
undiluted - for many months without special precaution as its "C vitamin"
like content (ascorbic acid) makes it nearly oxydation free).

Last, XTol is environment friendly, which adds to its interest.

(I used Delta100, TMax100, HP5, and Foma 100 /T200 films in 120 rolls).

Emmanuel


  #10  
Old October 28th 04, 08:47 PM
Michael A. Covington
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Default


"Thor Lancelot Simon" wrote in message
...

It's not necessarily a good idea to use distilled water to mix
developer; Kodak formulates it for "average North American tap water"
and water with no mineral content at all is definitely not that.

Kodak does sell a product that's basically meant to turn distilled
water into "average North American tap water" for use in mixing
developer, though. I can't ever remember its name, but if you're
going to mix developer with distilled water you should really use
it.


I've never heard that. I've always had good results using either distilled
water or tap water (the results are the same except that I can trust the
distilled water to be somewhat cleaner and more free of dissolved air).
What is this product?


 




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