Lawyers and camera user manuals.

These excerpts are from two different pages of the same camera user's manual.

"Once an image is erased, it cannot be recovered. Make sure that you no
longer need the image before erasing it."

"Formatting a CF card will erase everything on the card. Even protected
images will be erased."

"When the card is formatted, only the file management information is changed.
The actual data is not completely erased. Keep this in mind when giving the
card to another person or discarding it."

"When discarding the card, destroy the card physically to prevent the data
from being stolen."


Using this twisted logic:

If I erase images, I cannot be recover them. However, if I discard the card
someone else can recover the data (but I can't). Therefore, if I want to
recover the data I need to give/sell/dispose of the card so that the next
person who takes possession of the card can recover the data.

Can you imagine destroying $800 16GB Sandisk CF cards when you no longer need
them since the *next* person can recover the data? Naturally, there's no
technology on the face of the earth that can wipe a disk or simply filling
the disk with junk to overwrite any previously erased images.

John wrote:
These excerpts are from two different pages of the same camera user's
manual.
"Once an image is erased, it cannot be recovered. Make sure that you
no longer need the image before erasing it."

"Formatting a CF card will erase everything on the card. Even
protected images will be erased."

"When the card is formatted, only the file management information is
changed. The actual data is not completely erased. Keep this in mind
when giving the card to another person or discarding it."

"When discarding the card, destroy the card physically to prevent the
data from being stolen."


Using this twisted logic:

If I erase images, I cannot be recover them. However, if I discard
the card someone else can recover the data (but I can't). Therefore,
if I want to recover the data I need to give/sell/dispose of the card
so that the next person who takes possession of the card can recover
the data.
Can you imagine destroying $800 16GB Sandisk CF cards when you no
longer need them since the *next* person can recover the data? Naturally,
there's no technology on the face of the earth that can
wipe a disk or simply filling the disk with junk to overwrite any
previously erased images.


I believe that is your put those statements in context, and I believe
most people will, there is no problem. For most users it is not possible to
get images back from a deleted file. However it is possible for someone
with a real interest to do so. If someone is really concerned about data on
a disk, the only solution I would trust is physical destruction.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:
I believe that is your put those statements in context, and I believe
most people will, there is no problem. For most users it is not possible to
get images back from a deleted file. However it is possible for someone
with a real interest to do so. If someone is really concerned about data on
a disk, the only solution I would trust is physical destruction.


You're probably right about context-in this case. But in my D200's
manual, it says that care must be exercised when operating the diopter
control (next to the eyepiece) in order to avoid inserting one's
fingernails into one's eye. I challenge you to find a context in which
this is a reasonable warning!

John wrote:

Can you imagine destroying $800 16GB Sandisk CF cards when you no longer
need them since the *next* person can recover the data?

No ... since I cannot imagine owning an $800 CF card.

BTW .. which lawyer are you speaking of?

Phil

You can obtain programs that can recover data from a simple erased card
or formatted card. These programs work because only a limited amount of
data is modified to mark a directory entry as deleted or CF space as
available. If these information is modified back to indicate the file
exist and the image detailed information has not been overwritten, it
will appear as before deletion or formatting.

There are also programs that will do a high security delete by
rewritting over the detailed data 8 or more times with a changing and
random numbers or data. These programs will also rewrite unused space
to scramble any scratch date. The U.S. Government standard is a minimum
of 8 rewrites, since they can easily recover data overwritten 8 times
with specialized equipment as can other data recovery firms.

The utilities to recover erased or corrupted images are available for
under $100.00 High security erase programs are included in many system
utility suites for under $200.00 along with unerase programs.


John wrote:
These excerpts are from two different pages of the same camera user's manual.

"Once an image is erased, it cannot be recovered. Make sure that you no
longer need the image before erasing it."

"Formatting a CF card will erase everything on the card. Even protected
images will be erased."

"When the card is formatted, only the file management information is changed.
The actual data is not completely erased. Keep this in mind when giving the
card to another person or discarding it."

"When discarding the card, destroy the card physically to prevent the data
from being stolen."


Using this twisted logic:

If I erase images, I cannot be recover them. However, if I discard the card
someone else can recover the data (but I can't). Therefore, if I want to
recover the data I need to give/sell/dispose of the card so that the next
person who takes possession of the card can recover the data.

Can you imagine destroying $800 16GB Sandisk CF cards when you no longer need
them since the *next* person can recover the data? Naturally, there's no
technology on the face of the earth that can wipe a disk or simply filling
the disk with junk to overwrite any previously erased images.

Joseph Meehan wrote:
John wrote:
These excerpts are from two different pages of the same camera user's
manual.
"Once an image is erased, it cannot be recovered. Make sure that you
no longer need the image before erasing it."

"Formatting a CF card will erase everything on the card. Even
protected images will be erased."

"When the card is formatted, only the file management information is
changed. The actual data is not completely erased. Keep this in mind
when giving the card to another person or discarding it."

"When discarding the card, destroy the card physically to prevent the
data from being stolen."


Using this twisted logic:

If I erase images, I cannot be recover them. However, if I discard
the card someone else can recover the data (but I can't). Therefore,
if I want to recover the data I need to give/sell/dispose of the card
so that the next person who takes possession of the card can recover
the data.
Can you imagine destroying $800 16GB Sandisk CF cards when you no
longer need them since the *next* person can recover the data? Naturally,
there's no technology on the face of the earth that can
wipe a disk or simply filling the disk with junk to overwrite any
previously erased images.


I believe that is your put those statements in context, and I believe
most people will, there is no problem. For most users it is not possible to
get images back from a deleted file. However it is possible for someone
with a real interest to do so. If someone is really concerned about data on
a disk, the only solution I would trust is physical destruction.



How would one put mutually exclusive statements in a context so that they
were no longer mutually exclusive?

Either the images on CF cards are permanently erased or they're not.

acl wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

I believe that is your put those statements in context, and I
believe most people will, there is no problem. For most users it is
not possible to get images back from a deleted file. However it is
possible for someone with a real interest to do so. If someone is
really concerned about data on a disk, the only solution I would trust
is physical destruction.


You're probably right about context-in this case. But in my D200's
manual, it says that care must be exercised when operating the diopter
control (next to the eyepiece) in order to avoid inserting one's
fingernails into one's eye. I challenge you to find a context in which
this is a reasonable warning!

Makers of almost everything are sued for reasons that seem
strange to many of us. I use alumina rods to sharpen knives
- they do a great job. I got them free at a trade show.
The salesman told me that they stopped selling them for
knife sharpening when they were sued several times by people
who cut themselves on the sharpened knives! The claims were
that the product did what it was intended for, but too well.
Those odd-seeming instructions are a defense against law
suits.

John wrote:

[snip]

need them since the *next* person can recover the data? Naturally,
there's no technology on the face of the earth that can wipe a disk or
simply filling the disk with junk to overwrite any previously erased
images.

There is software which is approved US Department of Defense for such
purposes. If good enough for the government, good enough for me and my
pictures. One example is:
http://www.whitecanyon.com/clean-disk-software.php

--

Len

Many documents are written by many individuals and not always
consistent in the infromation being disclosed.

Many lawyers and writers do not know the technical aspects of how an
image is deleted, they just know they can not recover the image. Also
not all erased images can be recovered. If there have been other images
taken after the image has been erased. So one can say it is possible to
recover images and say not all images can be recovered since there are
additional facts and information that needs to be known before making
any statements. Also most absolute statements are wrong at sometime or
under certain conditions.

John wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
John wrote:
These excerpts are from two different pages of the same camera user's
manual.
"Once an image is erased, it cannot be recovered. Make sure that you
no longer need the image before erasing it."

"Formatting a CF card will erase everything on the card. Even
protected images will be erased."

"When the card is formatted, only the file management information is
changed. The actual data is not completely erased. Keep this in mind
when giving the card to another person or discarding it."

"When discarding the card, destroy the card physically to prevent the
data from being stolen."


Using this twisted logic:

If I erase images, I cannot be recover them. However, if I discard
the card someone else can recover the data (but I can't). Therefore,
if I want to recover the data I need to give/sell/dispose of the card
so that the next person who takes possession of the card can recover
the data.
Can you imagine destroying $800 16GB Sandisk CF cards when you no
longer need them since the *next* person can recover the data? Naturally,
there's no technology on the face of the earth that can
wipe a disk or simply filling the disk with junk to overwrite any
previously erased images.


I believe that is your put those statements in context, and I believe
most people will, there is no problem. For most users it is not possible to
get images back from a deleted file. However it is possible for someone
with a real interest to do so. If someone is really concerned about data on
a disk, the only solution I would trust is physical destruction.



How would one put mutually exclusive statements in a context so that they
were no longer mutually exclusive?

Either the images on CF cards are permanently erased or they're not.

In message , John



How would one put mutually exclusive statements in a context so that
they were no longer mutually exclusive?

Either the images on CF cards are permanently erased or they're not.


For the average users deleting a picture means it is GONE.

For the average intelligence service, disaster recovery outfit or hacker
it might be recoverable.....

If my mother deletes a file it is GONE
If I delete a file I might be able to get it back with Norton.

If I delete a file and format the disk its GONE
However I know at least two places that might recover it.
(But they don't offer a commercial service :-)

Why do you thing some people just delete a file but "government
standard" deleting includes formatting and then re-writing an
alternating bit pattern at least 3 times.



--
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\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
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