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Savageduck insisted



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 29th 15, 02:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Savageduck insisted

On 2015-07-28 19:36:35 +0000, Savageduck said:

On 2015-07-28 18:29:55 +0000, Bill W said:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 05:41:45 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:
On 2015-07-28 07:25:49 +0000, Bill W said:

Okay, I was forced to post some air show photos:

;-)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/489821...7654121813454/


Comments

are welcome, but on the processing, of course. They're just
planes in the sky, not much you can do with those as far as
composition goes.

Don't worry about that. It looks as though you were positioned near the
end of the runway where all the planes were on final approach. You had
some interesting captures.


Yes, right outside the base.

The shots of the "Buffs" B-52s reminded me of the days in the 60's and
70s, when at about 3 PM-4:30 PM everyday, there was an endless stream
of B-52s overhead on the approach to Griffiss AFB returning from their
SAC mission,

Anyway, all work was done in LR, all photos were cropped, and all had
at least some of the following adjustments: color temp, exposure,
shadows, highlights, clarity, vibrance, saturation, and sharpening,
and one photo used the haze removal slider (the one with the sun in
the upper right corner). Those are the things I'm interested in
comments on. I see after posting them that there is noise in the sky
in some of them. I really need to look into that, but it might just be
aggressive sharpening. I also failed to remove spots in a couple of
the photos. I do need to learn to clean those lenses...

There are some shots which have great potential; The F-16, The F-18,
the F-86 (that has some highlight clipping which needs fixing), and The
F-22. I am not clear on the ID of one of the older fighters, but I
think it is either an F-80, or an F-94.
Also the B-52 & B-1B are impressive, but need some dust spot clean up.


I did overlook various spots in some photos. You say some shots have
potential, but did any of them look okay as finished photos? My
opinion was that a couple of them did, but others were just sloppy
work.


Certainly there were quite a few which were fine as presented. The
deciding factor is your intent for presentation. Those would be fine
for online viewing via Flickr, but might need a whole bunch of
adjustment and cleaning up for print.
Here I was thinking particularly of the F-86, the F-18, and F-22 shots.

The P-51 shot was spoilt by the sun flare.


That's the one I used the dehazing slider on. It actually worked
wonders (it was a borderline delete photo), and I sort of like the
effect. Have you tried it on any photos yet? I though it gave this
photo a sort of artsy look.


I ahve tried it on a few landscapes with atmospheric haze. However, I
was not particularly happy with the results as the changes to contrast
were not particularlylocalized, but total. That seems to deepen
saturation and I don't like that after having made adjustments in the
Basic panel.

On to LR Post.
Are these RAW or JPEG originals?


Raw. I never touch the jpegs anymore. I'll probably just go to raw
only in the camera settings.


Great!

Spots (dust spots anyway) are more likely to be on the sensor than the
lens. It is worth learning how to clean the sensor if you are using a
DSLR or a mirrorless system.


There were spots on the lens, but I did notice that there might be
other problems. Unfortunately, it looked more like pixel size, which
worries me.


Most lens dust is not going to show on the image unless it is plastered on.
Sensor dust spots are quite typical and easily recognized once you are
familiar with them.

This might help. Select the Spot removal tool, then under the workspace
you will see "Visualize Spots", check that box and you will see what
those pesky spots really look like. Here is what that looks like in a
2005 shot with my D70 (AKA "The Dust Magnet")
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_235.jpg
...and the cleaned up version.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_236.jpg

...and the cropped & cleaned final result, that is the dust battle
field where I learned my sensor cleaning
https://db.tt/XKRfzt31

Most of those can be addressed in post.


Where I bothered, they came out easily.


Good.

Since you are using LR for post remember that all adjustments are
non-destructive and reversable and can always be revisited and tweaked.

Obviously, you are using a workflow you are comfortable with but here
is a little input from me .
In LR my RAW workflow goes something like this:
1: Set "Camera Calibration".
2: Check "Lens Correction" which includes correcting CA, zoomed in to
1:1 on contrast edges/fringes.
3: "Basic" panel:
a: Set Black Point, with the cursor on the "Blacks" slider, hold down
the alt/Option key, then adjust until you have one or two areas of
black spots on the white background.
b: Set White point, repeat the procedure above.
c: Check highlights the same way sliding to the left until hot spots
dissapear and clipping is dealt with.

For the following the alt/Option key technique isn't used.
d: Clarity, adjust for taste but don't over do.
e: Shadows, sliding to right is going to open up some of the shadow
detail without adjusting exposure.
f: Exposure, tweak if needed.
g: Contrast, Tweak if needed.
h: WB (Temp, & Tint), Tweak if needed.

4: "Detail"
a: Sharpening, again use the alt/Option key while moving the slider to
the right to between 60-115. Then do the same with Radius, setting from
1.0-1.5. Finally with Masking hold down the alt/Option key and slide to
the right, usually to 80-95 so that only the area needing sharpening is
sharpened.
b: Noise, pick an area of sky and zoom in to 1:1, hold down the
alt/Option key and the image will apear grey. If you see any noise move
the luminance slider to the right usually somewhere between 25-40.

FINALLY crop to finish.


I'll give all this a try - there's a few things in there that I wasn't
even aware of - maybe doing some over again. I also think that some of
them ended up looking a bit HDR-ish, and I think it's because I
overdid the shadow adjustment. And why do you crop only at the end?


Just habit.


BTW: This is an extreme example of why AF-C and multi-AF point 3D
tracking can work to save a capture. This was an 8 frame burst with a
fast right to left pass which was completed in 2.25 seconds. I was
doing my best to hold to center, but not everything goes to plan.

This shows where the AF point was when lock was made. Without the 51
point AF matrix I would have been SOL.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_238.jpg

....and here is the cropped final result after LR processing.
https://db.tt/tEtHO81e

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #12  
Old July 29th 15, 03:05 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
John McWilliams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,945
Default Savageduck insisted

On 7/28/15 PDT 5:41 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-07-28 07:25:49 +0000, Bill W said:

Okay, I was forced to post some air show photos:


;-)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/489821...7654121813454/


Comments

are welcome, but on the processing, of course. They're just
planes in the sky, not much you can do with those as far as
composition goes.


Don't worry about that. It looks as though you were positioned near the
end of the runway where all the planes were on final approach. You had
some interesting captures.
The shots of the "Buffs" B-52s reminded me of the days in the 60's and
70s, when at about 3 PM-4:30 PM everyday, there was an endless stream of
B-52s overhead on the approach to Griffiss AFB returning from their SAC
mission,

Anyway, all work was done in LR, all photos were cropped, and all had
at least some of the following adjustments: color temp, exposure,
shadows, highlights, clarity, vibrance, saturation, and sharpening,
and one photo used the haze removal slider (the one with the sun in
the upper right corner). Those are the things I'm interested in
comments on. I see after posting them that there is noise in the sky
in some of them. I really need to look into that, but it might just be
aggressive sharpening. I also failed to remove spots in a couple of
the photos. I do need to learn to clean those lenses...


There are some shots which have great potential; The F-16, The F-18, the
F-86 (that has some highlight clipping which needs fixing), and The
F-22. I am not clear on the ID of one of the older fighters, but I think
it is either an F-80, or an F-94.
Also the B-52 & B-1B are impressive, but need some dust spot clean up.

The P-51 shot was spoilt by the sun flare.

On to LR Post.
Are these RAW or JPEG originals?

Spots (dust spots anyway) are more likely to be on the sensor than the
lens. It is worth learning how to clean the sensor if you are using a
DSLR or a mirrorless system.

Most of those can be addressed in post.

Since you are using LR for post remember that all adjustments are
non-destructive and reversable and can always be revisited and tweaked.

Obviously, you are using a workflow you are comfortable with but here is
a little input from me .
In LR my RAW workflow goes something like this:
1: Set "Camera Calibration".
2: Check "Lens Correction" which includes correcting CA, zoomed in to
1:1 on contrast edges/fringes.
3: "Basic" panel:
a: Set Black Point, with the cursor on the "Blacks" slider, hold down
the alt/Option key, then adjust until you have one or two areas of black
spots on the white background.
b: Set White point, repeat the procedure above.
c: Check highlights the same way sliding to the left until hot spots
dissapear and clipping is dealt with.

For the following the alt/Option key technique isn't used.
d: Clarity, adjust for taste but don't over do.
e: Shadows, sliding to right is going to open up some of the shadow
detail without adjusting exposure.
f: Exposure, tweak if needed.
g: Contrast, Tweak if needed.
h: WB (Temp, & Tint), Tweak if needed.

4: "Detail"
a: Sharpening, again use the alt/Option key while moving the slider
to the right to between 60-115. Then do the same with Radius, setting
from 1.0-1.5. Finally with Masking hold down the alt/Option key and
slide to the right, usually to 80-95 so that only the area needing
sharpening is sharpened.
b: Noise, pick an area of sky and zoom in to 1:1, hold down the
alt/Option key and the image will apear grey. If you see any noise move
the luminance slider to the right usually somewhere between 25-40.

FINALLY crop to finish.


Nice and clear.

What happens if you crop first?
  #13  
Old July 29th 15, 03:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Savageduck insisted

On 2015-07-29 02:05:05 +0000, John McWilliams said:

On 7/28/15 PDT 5:41 AM, Savageduck wrote:
On 2015-07-28 07:25:49 +0000, Bill W said:

Okay, I was forced to post some air show photos:


;-)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/489821...7654121813454/



Comments

are

welcome, but on the processing, of course. They're just
planes in the sky, not much you can do with those as far as
composition goes.


Don't worry about that. It looks as though you were positioned near the
end of the runway where all the planes were on final approach. You had
some interesting captures.
The shots of the "Buffs" B-52s reminded me of the days in the 60's and
70s, when at about 3 PM-4:30 PM everyday, there was an endless stream of
B-52s overhead on the approach to Griffiss AFB returning from their SAC
mission,

Anyway, all work was done in LR, all photos were cropped, and all had
at least some of the following adjustments: color temp, exposure,
shadows, highlights, clarity, vibrance, saturation, and sharpening,
and one photo used the haze removal slider (the one with the sun in
the upper right corner). Those are the things I'm interested in
comments on. I see after posting them that there is noise in the sky
in some of them. I really need to look into that, but it might just be
aggressive sharpening. I also failed to remove spots in a couple of
the photos. I do need to learn to clean those lenses...


There are some shots which have great potential; The F-16, The F-18, the
F-86 (that has some highlight clipping which needs fixing), and The
F-22. I am not clear on the ID of one of the older fighters, but I think
it is either an F-80, or an F-94.
Also the B-52 & B-1B are impressive, but need some dust spot clean up.

The P-51 shot was spoilt by the sun flare.

On to LR Post.
Are these RAW or JPEG originals?

Spots (dust spots anyway) are more likely to be on the sensor than the
lens. It is worth learning how to clean the sensor if you are using a
DSLR or a mirrorless system.

Most of those can be addressed in post.

Since you are using LR for post remember that all adjustments are
non-destructive and reversable and can always be revisited and tweaked.

Obviously, you are using a workflow you are comfortable with but here is
a little input from me .
In LR my RAW workflow goes something like this:
1: Set "Camera Calibration".
2: Check "Lens Correction" which includes correcting CA, zoomed in to
1:1 on contrast edges/fringes.
3: "Basic" panel:
a: Set Black Point, with the cursor on the "Blacks" slider, hold down
the alt/Option key, then adjust until you have one or two areas of black
spots on the white background.
b: Set White point, repeat the procedure above.
c: Check highlights the same way sliding to the left until hot spots
dissapear and clipping is dealt with.

For the following the alt/Option key technique isn't used.
d: Clarity, adjust for taste but don't over do.
e: Shadows, sliding to right is going to open up some of the shadow
detail without adjusting exposure.
f: Exposure, tweak if needed.
g: Contrast, Tweak if needed.
h: WB (Temp, & Tint), Tweak if needed.

4: "Detail"
a: Sharpening, again use the alt/Option key while moving the slider
to the right to between 60-115. Then do the same with Radius, setting
from 1.0-1.5. Finally with Masking hold down the alt/Option key and
slide to the right, usually to 80-95 so that only the area needing
sharpening is sharpened.
b: Noise, pick an area of sky and zoom in to 1:1, hold down the
alt/Option key and the image will apear grey. If you see any noise move
the luminance slider to the right usually somewhere between 25-40.

FINALLY crop to finish.


Nice and clear.

What happens if you crop first?


Nothing. It is just my peculiar habit to crop to finish.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #14  
Old July 29th 15, 03:22 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default Savageduck insisted

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 19:29:35 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

On 7/28/2015 3:25 AM, Bill W wrote:
Okay, I was forced to post some air show photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/489821...7654121813454/

Comments are welcome, but on the processing, of course. They're just
planes in the sky, not much you can do with those as far as
composition goes.

Anyway, all work was done in LR, all photos were cropped, and all had
at least some of the following adjustments: color temp, exposure,
shadows, highlights, clarity, vibrance, saturation, and sharpening,
and one photo used the haze removal slider (the one with the sun in
the upper right corner). Those are the things I'm interested in
comments on. I see after posting them that there is noise in the sky
in some of them. I really need to look into that, but it might just be
aggressive sharpening. I also failed to remove spots in a couple of
the photos. I do need to learn to clean those lenses...


What look are you trying to achieve.
Try playing with levels /curves on a separate layer. Judicious use will
cause your image to really pop.

http://www.picturecorrect.com/tips/when-to-use-levels-or-curves-in-photoshop/

There are also some neat free tutorials on youtube.


I wasn't trying to achieve any look, just hoping to get proper looking
photos. They're just a bunch of planes flying around, but I was hoping
that a couple of those images did pop, and thought at least a couple
of them did. Many of them clearly didn't, but I at least wanted to get
the WB, saturation, & exposure looking right.

I do have PS, but I'm not using it much anymore, unless I need to do
things that LR cannot do at all. I finally understand why people use
LR. I used to just do what I needed to the raw file, and then save it
as a tiff. Then one day I saw how large those tiff files really are -
almost 10x the size of the original raw in some cases, and the light
bulb went on. No more, unless absolutely necessary.
  #15  
Old July 29th 15, 03:58 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default Savageduck insisted

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 18:25:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

BTW: This is an extreme example of why AF-C and multi-AF point 3D
tracking can work to save a capture. This was an 8 frame burst with a
fast right to left pass which was completed in 2.25 seconds. I was
doing my best to hold to center, but not everything goes to plan.

This shows where the AF point was when lock was made. Without the 51
point AF matrix I would have been SOL.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_238.jpg

...and here is the cropped final result after LR processing.
https://db.tt/tEtHO81e


What is 3D tracking? My problem at this air show location with all
those focus points is that it will start focusing on the power lines,
trees, mountains, clouds, etc. Does it mean that it tries to track
objects that are at a consistent distance? My Pentax does not have
that option, so it might be moot anyway.
  #16  
Old July 29th 15, 04:05 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Savageduck insisted

In article , Bill W
wrote:

What is 3D tracking? My problem at this air show location with all
those focus points is that it will start focusing on the power lines,
trees, mountains, clouds, etc. Does it mean that it tries to track
objects that are at a consistent distance? My Pentax does not have
that option, so it might be moot anyway.


http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Learn-And...i4lx/3d-focus-
tracking.html
An invaluable feature for sports, action and wildlife photography, 3D
focus tracking, available in select Nikon D-SLRs, automatically
shifts the focus point to follow the movement of the subject. With
the shutter release pressed halfway, you'll see in the viewfinder the
lens continuously maintain focus as the subject moves.

However, maintaining focus doesn't guarantee a sharp image, as there
is a short time lag between the release of the shutter and the
capture of the picture. To solve this problem, the focus tracking
system is a predictive system that uses special algorithms to
forecast the position of the subject at the moment the image is
captured. The prediction is based on a measurement of the subject's
movement and speed.
  #17  
Old July 29th 15, 04:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Bill W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,692
Default Savageduck insisted

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 23:05:08 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Bill W
wrote:

What is 3D tracking? My problem at this air show location with all
those focus points is that it will start focusing on the power lines,
trees, mountains, clouds, etc. Does it mean that it tries to track
objects that are at a consistent distance? My Pentax does not have
that option, so it might be moot anyway.


http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Learn-And...i4lx/3d-focus-
tracking.html
An invaluable feature for sports, action and wildlife photography, 3D
focus tracking, available in select Nikon D-SLRs, automatically
shifts the focus point to follow the movement of the subject. With
the shutter release pressed halfway, you'll see in the viewfinder the
lens continuously maintain focus as the subject moves.

However, maintaining focus doesn't guarantee a sharp image, as there
is a short time lag between the release of the shutter and the
capture of the picture. To solve this problem, the focus tracking
system is a predictive system that uses special algorithms to
forecast the position of the subject at the moment the image is
captured. The prediction is based on a measurement of the subject's
movement and speed.


Okay, not exactly what I was thinking. If I use too many focus points,
I too often end up focused on the wrong subject, but with too few, I
lose the subject too easily after I lock onto it. It's just a matter
of practice, I suppose.
  #18  
Old July 29th 15, 04:35 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Savageduck insisted

In article , Bill W
wrote:

What is 3D tracking? My problem at this air show location with all
those focus points is that it will start focusing on the power lines,
trees, mountains, clouds, etc. Does it mean that it tries to track
objects that are at a consistent distance? My Pentax does not have
that option, so it might be moot anyway.


http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Learn-And...i4lx/3d-focus-
tracking.html
An invaluable feature for sports, action and wildlife photography, 3D
focus tracking, available in select Nikon D-SLRs, automatically
shifts the focus point to follow the movement of the subject. With
the shutter release pressed halfway, you'll see in the viewfinder the
lens continuously maintain focus as the subject moves.

However, maintaining focus doesn't guarantee a sharp image, as there
is a short time lag between the release of the shutter and the
capture of the picture. To solve this problem, the focus tracking
system is a predictive system that uses special algorithms to
forecast the position of the subject at the moment the image is
captured. The prediction is based on a measurement of the subject's
movement and speed.


Okay, not exactly what I was thinking. If I use too many focus points,
I too often end up focused on the wrong subject, but with too few, I
lose the subject too easily after I lock onto it. It's just a matter
of practice, I suppose.


it depends on the focusing mode and given situation. no one mode is
best in all cases, which is why there is more than one mode.

here's a description of the various mode:
https://photographylife.com/dslr-autofocus-modes-explained
  #19  
Old July 29th 15, 04:43 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Savageduck insisted

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 16:42:06 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2015-07-28 23:29:35 +0000, PeterN said:

On 7/28/2015 3:25 AM, Bill W wrote:
Okay, I was forced to post some air show photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/489821...7654121813454/


Comments

are welcome, but on the processing, of course. They're just
planes in the sky, not much you can do with those as far as
composition goes.

Anyway, all work was done in LR, all photos were cropped, and all had
at least some of the following adjustments: color temp, exposure,
shadows, highlights, clarity, vibrance, saturation, and sharpening,
and one photo used the haze removal slider (the one with the sun in
the upper right corner). Those are the things I'm interested in
comments on. I see after posting them that there is noise in the sky
in some of them. I really need to look into that, but it might just be
aggressive sharpening. I also failed to remove spots in a couple of
the photos. I do need to learn to clean those lenses...


What look are you trying to achieve.
Try playing with levels /curves on a separate layer. Judicious use will
cause your image to really pop.

http://www.picturecorrect.com/tips/when-to-use-levels-or-curves-in-photoshop/

There are also some neat free tutorials on youtube.


You might have noticed that Bill is doing all his post in Lightroom.
While you have a tone curve adjustment panel in LR it does not provide
the same level of flexibility as curves and levels in PS.


In may cases, you can achieve much the same results by playing around
with 'whites' and 'blacks' to adjust the end points (as in levels) and
'highlights' and 'shadows' (as in manipulating the image as with a 'S'
curve). However you can't do any of the really peculiar things you can
do when manipulating a curve in a really complex way.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #20  
Old July 29th 15, 04:59 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Savageduck[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Savageduck insisted

On 2015-07-29 02:58:50 +0000, Bill W said:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 18:25:30 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

BTW: This is an extreme example of why AF-C and multi-AF point 3D
tracking can work to save a capture. This was an 8 frame burst with a
fast right to left pass which was completed in 2.25 seconds. I was
doing my best to hold to center, but not everything goes to plan.

This shows where the AF point was when lock was made. Without the 51
point AF matrix I would have been SOL.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/FileChute/screenshot_238.jpg

...and here is the cropped final result after LR processing.
https://db.tt/tEtHO81e


What is 3D tracking? My problem at this air show location with all
those focus points is that it will start focusing on the power lines,
trees, mountains, clouds, etc. Does it mean that it tries to track
objects that are at a consistent distance? My Pentax does not have
that option, so it might be moot anyway.


That is a Nikon DSLR feature.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

 




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