B&H and Adorama Closed!

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:21:57 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

I agree with you here. I don't think there is a large Orthodox Jewish
community in Ireland. So very likely he isn't familiar with their holidays.
On the other hand, the Christian holidays are so well known that people
of all cultures are aware of them.

Even if one is familiar enough with the Jewish holidays to know
that they exist, calendar differences would make it difficult for
many people, whether in Ireland, the USA or most other countries to
know in advance on which days the holidays would fall.

Neil Harrington wrote:
"John A. Stovall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:04:33 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A. Stovall" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:54:39 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:

snipped

Why do some many people out there think they deserve special
treatment? It strikes me they are just a bunch of self centered
whiners.

The OP wasn't expecting "special treatment." He simply made the point
that
closing for several days or a week or whatever, for holidays that most
people aren't aware of and don't expect, creates inconvenience for
customers
and/or those who would be customers. This annoyed him.

No, he expected them to keep open when he expected them to. A little
research, he would have know.

He was a visitor from Ireland. Why would he think "a little research" was
needed to find out if a huge camera store would be open or not on a
regular
business day? Do you do "a little research" on store hours beforehand
whenever you go shopping for anything?


If I'm traveling several thousand miles, yes I do. I collect rare
books and I can assure you before I go to Paris I check with the
dealer's I plan to visit if they will be open when I'm there.

You are to be congratulated for being an extraordinarily cautious fellow.



An email as to when he expected to be there would have solved his
problem before it happened.

Yes. Similarly, if I'd been elsewhere at the time that truck hit me it
wouldn't have nearly totaled my car and gotten me a fractured wrist and
steam burns from the air bag (why don't they call them "steam bags," I
wonder?), and a hundred other misfortunes might not have happened if only
I'd done something different than what I did. The world of "If only I'd . .
." is a wonderful place. As a general rule, though, I think most people
expect stores to be open on regular business days without having to e-mail
to check beforehand, and this is not an unreasonable expectation.

Neil

Well, actually, since the owner of the store believes his religion
requires that he not work, and make no money, during those days, it is
unreasonable to expect the store to be open. The person who owns the
store has the right to run it as he chooses. The customer of the store
has the right to buy or not buy, as he sees fit, when the store is
open. If it is closed, he can go elsewhere, or wait.

Makes no difference if it's one day, six days or six weeks.

Charlie Self wrote:
Neil Harrington wrote:
"John A. Stovall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:04:33 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"John A. Stovall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:54:39 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:

snipped

Why do some many people out there think they deserve special
treatment? It strikes me they are just a bunch of self centered
whiners.

The OP wasn't expecting "special treatment." He simply made the
point that
closing for several days or a week or whatever, for holidays
that most people aren't aware of and don't expect, creates
inconvenience for customers
and/or those who would be customers. This annoyed him.

No, he expected them to keep open when he expected them to. A
little research, he would have know.

He was a visitor from Ireland. Why would he think "a little
research" was needed to find out if a huge camera store would be
open or not on a regular
business day? Do you do "a little research" on store hours
beforehand whenever you go shopping for anything?


If I'm traveling several thousand miles, yes I do. I collect rare
books and I can assure you before I go to Paris I check with the
dealer's I plan to visit if they will be open when I'm there.

You are to be congratulated for being an extraordinarily cautious
fellow.



An email as to when he expected to be there would have solved his
problem before it happened.

Yes. Similarly, if I'd been elsewhere at the time that truck hit me
it wouldn't have nearly totaled my car and gotten me a fractured
wrist and steam burns from the air bag (why don't they call them
"steam bags," I wonder?), and a hundred other misfortunes might not
have happened if only I'd done something different than what I did.
The world of "If only I'd . . ." is a wonderful place. As a general
rule, though, I think most people expect stores to be open on
regular business days without having to e-mail to check beforehand,
and this is not an unreasonable expectation.

Neil

Well, actually, since the owner of the store believes his religion
requires that he not work, and make no money, during those days, it is
unreasonable to expect the store to be open. The person who owns the
store has the right to run it as he chooses. The customer of the store
has the right to buy or not buy, as he sees fit, when the store is
open. If it is closed, he can go elsewhere, or wait.

Makes no difference if it's one day, six days or six weeks.

There's a furniture store hereas that is only open Tuesdays, Thursdays and
Sundays.
No reason given... They just want it that way.
It has never occurred to me to complain, or whine about it.
-They can do whatever they want...whenever they want.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:55:51 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:

It should be obvious that this is not their intent. Instead, it is
their intent to honor their God, in the way they think is best.
That a customer is inconvenienced is a by-product, and is certainly
not something that they believe should overcome the real intent.
While it may be inconvenient to you, there are probebaly far more
things that are far more 'inconvenient.' Perspective and respect for
other ways might help here.

That's always true and is generally understood, but does not make it any the
less inconvenient in this case. What exacerbates the problem is that
virtually *all* nationally advertised camera stores are not just
Jewish-owned, but Hasidic or otherwise hyper-religious-Jewish-owned and shut
down on more or less the same days, so the buyer cannot easily just go
elsewhere to do his business as some here have unhelpfully suggested. There
are few exceptions. Camera World of Oregon is the only one that comes
readily to mind.

This is much more "kind" than your original post:
"I didn't see any other major New York stores closed for religious
reasons and I think it is outrageous for these two firms to treat its
customers like this."

The outrage was, I think, from your misunderstanding of what B&H (and
many other stores) was doing.

If we are lucky, we learn something new every day.

--
Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:04:33 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:

No, he expected them to keep open when he expected them to. A little
research, he would have know.

He was a visitor from Ireland. Why would he think "a little research" was
needed to find out if a huge camera store would be open or not on a regular
business day? Do you do "a little research" on store hours beforehand
whenever you go shopping for anything?

I know you're responding to John, but...
Yes, if I were visiting a place,and I wanted to make a visit to a
store (museum, restaurant, whatever) a keypoint of the visit, then,
yes, I would check.
Of course, I would do so because I have learned from experience that
checking would be a good idea.
That's what experience is for.
Experience, BTW, is getting something other than what you expected.

--
Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:36:02 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:


"Nikon User" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Neil Harrington" wrote:

He was a visitor from Ireland. Why would he think "a little research"
was needed to find out if a huge camera store would be open or not on
a regular business day? Do you do "a little research" on store hours
beforehand whenever you go shopping for anything?

So a visitor from Saudi Arabia would be justified for having the same
reaction when he found all the stores closed on Thanksgiving, Christmas
Day or Easter Sunday?

Thanksgiving and Christmas are national holidays, and last exactly one day
each. Most stores where I live are open on Thanksgiving anyway.

I don't know of any stores that close on Easter Sunday, other than those
that are always closed on Sunday.

Neil


I don't know where you live, but here in Phoenix, AZ, USA, almost
*ALL* stores are closed on Easter Sunday.
Gas stations, grocery stores, shopping malls.
Just about the only places open are little convenience stores, and not
all of them.

--
Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:49:01 -0400, "Neil Harrington"
wrote:

If I'm traveling several thousand miles, yes I do. I collect rare
books and I can assure you before I go to Paris I check with the
dealer's I plan to visit if they will be open when I'm there.

You are to be congratulated for being an extraordinarily cautious fellow.

I don't consider it to be extraordinarily cautious. I consider it to
be prudent. A very small investment in time to save a lot of
frustration later.
Sort of making sure I have enough gas to make the next gas station
while I'm passing one. (And yes, in the American Southwest, this is
often a good idea.)

--
Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com

In article ,
Neil Harrington wrote:

"Gary Edstrom" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:20:15 +0100, "carrigman"
wrote:

All to do with a Jewish holiday, I understand. Surely they have enough
non-Jewish employees to cater for the rest of us? I didn't see any other
major New York stores closed for religious reasons and I think it is
outrageous for these two firms to treat its customers like this.

John,
Ireland

So, are you saying that other businesses should have enough
Non-Christian employees so that they can stay open on Christmas Day?
What about the Thanksgiving, New Years, Labor Day, July 4th, and
Memorial Day holidays? Are you upset that many businesses close on
those holidays?

Those are all national holidays. People know when the national holidays are
and on a few of them, expect at least some businesses to be closed or be
open only for shorter hours. Also, each of those holidays is ONE DAY and
therefore does not pose much of an inconvenience, compared to a religious
holiday that lasts several days or a week.



You know, it wasn't that many years ago in this country that virtually
all businesses were closed on Sunday. I can remember a time when the
only places open for business on Sundays were SOME grocery stores and
SOME gas stations. EVERYTHING else was closed.

In some cases as required by law. In my state you still can't buy beer, wine
or booze on a Sunday, except in a restaurant (which is pretty silly, but
there you are).



A visit to B&H's web site ahead of time would have told you of their
closure. Do you have some reason that businesses should be allowed to
observe Christian holidays but not Jewish holidays?

For the most part, no "Christian holidays" (plural) are observed except the
NATIONAL holiday of Christmas. That's just one day and really has nothing to
do with the Christian religion anyway, popular associations and myth
notwithstanding. A few states do observe Good Friday as a state holiday, but


Try going to Boston to April 19th to do some business. You'd be
suprised. At least I was when I went up there to do some apartment
hunting prior to taking a job 25 years ago.

Patriot Day. Boston was shut down tight.

Now I always check for local and national holidays and events for
*any* trip.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

In article .com,
W (winhag) wrote:
If you had gone to Photoplus Expo in the Javits center, both B&H and
Adorama have booths there.



I was there Saturday and I don't recall seeing B&H. I did see Adorama
and there were just piles of literature. No crew.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:35:15 +0100, "carrigman"
wrote:

"Mark²"
"Outrageous to treat their customers like..." what??? What have they done
to you except to expose your poor planning? One visit to B&H's website
and you'd have seen their huge sign noting their closed days this month.
B&H and Adorama have the best reputations in the industry. What is
outrageous is your disregard of their right to honor their religious
beliefs through the conduct their own business.

The closure of these stores during the normal business week is not something
one expects and so the need to check their websites was not that obvious.

You make it seem as if you have a "right" for them to remain
open for your convenience. Grow up.



All other major stores in NYC seemed to be operating as normal. And surely
many of them are Jewish owned?

Anyhow, I'll know better next time.

John