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#1
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
Hello. I hope someone can explain what happened when, yesterday I took
my paper from the developer and put it in the stop bath. A "sizzle" sound was produced when the paper was put into the stop bath. This does not seem good for the paper or me for that matter. The first couple times I heard this I thought my neighbor's kids where playing with a hose outside. Then I realized I would hear this sound only when the paper was put in the stop bath. I was using Sprint Developer(new fresh), Freestyle Arista Stop (I had this for a while), and Arista Fix. Thanks. Francis |
#2
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
Francis wrote:
Hello. I hope someone can explain what happened when, yesterday I took my paper from the developer and put it in the stop bath. A "sizzle" sound was produced when the paper was put into the stop bath. This does not seem good for the paper or me for that matter. The first couple times I heard this I thought my neighbor's kids where playing with a hose outside. Then I realized I would hear this sound only when the paper was put in the stop bath. I was using Sprint Developer(new fresh), Freestyle Arista Stop (I had this for a while), and Arista Fix. Thanks. Carbonate in the developer is mixing with acid in the stop to release gas. I don't think it's overly bad for you but I'm having trouble remembering what gas it is. It's not the best thing for film but for paper I don't think it's an issue. Nick |
#3
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:23:00 -0500, Nick Zentena
wrote: Francis wrote: Hello. I hope someone can explain what happened when, yesterday I took my paper from the developer and put it in the stop bath. A "sizzle" sound was produced when the paper was put into the stop bath. This does not seem good for the paper or me for that matter. The first couple times I heard this I thought my neighbor's kids where playing with a hose outside. Then I realized I would hear this sound only when the paper was put in the stop bath. I was using Sprint Developer(new fresh), Freestyle Arista Stop (I had this for a while), and Arista Fix. Thanks. Carbonate in the developer is mixing with acid in the stop to release gas. I don't think it's overly bad for you but I'm having trouble remembering what gas it is. It's not the best thing for film but for paper I don't think it's an issue. Nick apr1804 from Lloyd Erlick, It's carbon dioxide, and it's not a health problem. It is, however, completely unnecessary, and probably indicates the stop bath is mixed at too high concentration. Could it be that someone has set it out by pouring from the container, not bothering to dilute? I like the scent and flavour of vinegar (I actually have about a half dozen different vinegars in my kitchen) but I find it wearying after a few hours in the darkroom. A tablespoon (or fifteen grams) of citric acid per liter of working stop bath makes a fine stop that is completely odorless (can't smell it even if it wets your nose). In either case (acetic or citric), lower the concentration until paper no longer sizzles or releases bubbles in the stop bath. Most published comments on this question advise too much acid. It helps to use stop bath one-shot or one-session. Part of the reason for using it at a higher concentration is so it will last over a few storage periods. It's very cheap, and one-shot ensures a fresh bath and consistent results. Experimenting with a plain water stop bath might be instructive. I haven't used anything but several changes of plain tap water as my 'stop' bath for years now. I find acid of any kind creates more problems than benefits in my process for making FB prints. I've even pontificated on this subject, on my website. Look under the 'technical' section of the table of contents. (www.heylloyd.com) regards, --le |
#4
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
Francis wrote:
Hello. I hope someone can explain what happened when, yesterday I took my paper from the developer and put it in the stop bath. A "sizzle" sound was produced when the paper was put into the stop bath. This does not seem good for the paper or me for that matter. The first couple times I heard this I thought my neighbor's kids where playing with a hose outside. Then I realized I would hear this sound only when the paper was put in the stop bath. I was using Sprint Developer(new fresh), Freestyle Arista Stop (I had this for a while), and Arista Fix. Thanks. Francis As the other reply suggested, it's carbonate in the developer reacting with the acetic acid stop bath. No, it won't hurt you -- the gas evolved is just carbon dioxide, and though enough will kill you, you won't make enough that way to do any harm in a ventilated room (and you shouldn't be printing or developing in an unventilated room anyway). However, gas evolution is very bad for film and paper; bubbles formed within the emulsion can cause separation and pinholes. First, did you remember to dilute the stop bath according to directions? If not, you'll find the gas evolution greatly reduced with weaker acid. If it's already diluted, or you still hear the hiss after diluting, then you should change to a plain water stop bath (change the water after every 5 or 10 prints, so it doesn't start to act like dilute developer and boost your highlights) or a buffered stop (buffer with sodium acetate, quantities are given in Anchell & Troop for film, and will work as well for paper), or switch to a developer that doesn't use carbonate as its alkali. -- I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz! -- E. J. Fudd, 1954 Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth and don't expect them to be perfect. |
#5
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
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#6
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
jjs wrote: In article , (Francis) wrote: Hello. I hope someone can explain what happened when, yesterday I took my paper from the developer and put it in the stop bath. A "sizzle" sound was produced when the paper was put into the stop bath. Way too strong a stop solution is my guess. If you look at your prints, you might see pinholes in the emulsion. I never ever have seen those pinholes. Most of the carbonate carried over is outside the emulsion where it cannot cause pinholes. Only if there is enough carbonate in the emulsion, and the acetic acid is absorbed by the emulsion instead of waiting for the unwary carbonate to come out, and if the emulsion is soft enough, will there be any pinholes. How many have you guys seen in printing paper emulsion? |
#7
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:09:55 -0400, Patrick Gainer
wrote: jjs wrote: In article , (Francis) wrote: Hello. I hope someone can explain what happened when, yesterday I took my paper from the developer and put it in the stop bath. A "sizzle" sound was produced when the paper was put into the stop bath. Way too strong a stop solution is my guess. If you look at your prints, you might see pinholes in the emulsion. I never ever have seen those pinholes. Most of the carbonate carried over is outside the emulsion where it cannot cause pinholes. Only if there is enough carbonate in the emulsion, and the acetic acid is absorbed by the emulsion instead of waiting for the unwary carbonate to come out, and if the emulsion is soft enough, will there be any pinholes. How many have you guys seen in printing paper emulsion? None. Never. Ever. Then, again, a fellow working at the same photofinishing plant as I showed me some real pinholes caused by using a very concentrated fixer. He did his demo and rushed away, so I never got those details. Anyone hear of anything like this? Robert Vervoordt, MFA |
#8
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
Robert Vervoordt wrote: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:09:55 -0400, Patrick Gainer wrote: jjs wrote: In article , (Francis) wrote: Hello. I hope someone can explain what happened when, yesterday I took my paper from the developer and put it in the stop bath. A "sizzle" sound was produced when the paper was put into the stop bath. Way too strong a stop solution is my guess. If you look at your prints, you might see pinholes in the emulsion. I never ever have seen those pinholes. Most of the carbonate carried over is outside the emulsion where it cannot cause pinholes. Only if there is enough carbonate in the emulsion, and the acetic acid is absorbed by the emulsion instead of waiting for the unwary carbonate to come out, and if the emulsion is soft enough, will there be any pinholes. How many have you guys seen in printing paper emulsion? None. Never. Ever. Then, again, a fellow working at the same photofinishing plant as I showed me some real pinholes caused by using a very concentrated fixer. He did his demo and rushed away, so I never got those details. Anyone hear of anything like this? Robert Vervoordt, MFA Pinholes were a common occurence in line copies of reporte when I was an aeronautical research engineer at NACA (later NASA). We engineers had to watch over the spotters because they sometimes made time go backward. One time we saw a reproduction of an oscillograph trace that had a backward loop caused by an artistic retoucher. From then on, the researcher had to take part in the retouching. I guess the pinholes were the result of thick emulsion, lithographic developer, etc. |
#9
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
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#10
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Printing: Developer + Stop = Sizzle
On 4/21/2004 4:56 PM Dan Quinn spake thus:
(Francis) For a few generations the usual alkaline developer, acid stop, acid fix method of processing has been used. The acid stop is used to adjust the ph of the print so that the acidity of the fix may be maintained. There are those that make prints using a neutral or alkaline fix. They are not interested in maintaining an acid fix. Then there is me. Film or paper, I don't use a stop of any sort. I use all chemistry one-shot so I have no reason to stop. Well, whoop-te-do for you. -- I was quickly apprised that an "RSS feed" was not, as I had naively imagined, some new and unspeakable form of sexual debauchery practised by young persons of dubious morality, but a way of providing news articles to the cybernetic publishing moguls of the World Wide Wait so they can fill the airwaves with even more useless drivel. - Cynical shop talk from comp.publish.prepress |
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