Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

"Andre G. Isaak" wrote

| What I mean would be most apparent if you open the font in a
| font-editing program such as FontLab and look at the actual outlines.
| The lowercase o and u would be good characters to look at.

His sample looks good to me. When I downloaded
the font it also looked reasonably good in editors.
I think the problem with his sample is that it has a
dark outline around the letters, which makes the
anti-aliasing visibly choppy. But presumably that has
a good effect when read from a distance.

In article , Chaya Eve
wrote:


macs use industry standard fonts, which means that no matter what font
you choose, it will work on either platform.

A road-sign font is a specific type of font for a specific use.

so what? macs can use any font.

macs could use multiple fonts before windows even existed.

If you know of better common slide-editing software, let us know.

you aren't making slides.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/02/t...chers-tech.htm
l
|
| (Requires cookies enabled.)
|
| no it doesn't.
|
Interesting. For years I've had to switch to a
cookie-eating browser at NYT because otherwise
it would send me to a login page. Maybe they've
finally given up on trying to make the public
believe their paper is so special that people will
pay to see the online version.

some ny times links do, some do not.

that one does not.

| technology in schools is a *very* good thing.
|

A good demonstration of assumptions with no thought,
no reasoning, and not even a context for your belief.
Merely a blind belief swallowed whole because you've
heard it said numerous times and weren't paying attention.
Your whole case is merely a reflex ejaculation of, "Is so!".

wrong.

Too bad you weren't joking.

i'm not joking.

kids need to learn technology because they'll be using it their entire
life, and far more sophisticated technology than what exists today.

| those kids will be growing up in a world with all sorts of technology
| that people today can't even imagine, and they *need* to know how it
| all works.
|

They will need to know. In grade school they need
to learn to read, relate to their fellow students,
bounce a ball, run outside, draw a picture, and
generally train their bodies. They're at a stage
of relating to the world on a mainly physical level.
They don't need to learn how to navigate Twitter.
They'll learn that with their friends, anyway.

they aren't learning how to navigate twitter, which doesn't take much
learning anyway.

they're at a stage where they can absorb a tremendous amount of
knowledge and do things adults think is impossible.

Worse, when they're taught to navigate Twitter
they're not also taught to block ads, do advanced
search, or otherwise use computers as tools.
They're taught to use them as consumption devices.
That's all that their tech-shill teacher knows.

absolutely wrong.

many kids that age are learning how to program and write apps, some of
which are available on the app store, for ios and android.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/05/01/tynker-app-kids-apple-swift/
...Tynker, a company that creates self-paced and school-based coding
lessons for kids, has partnered up with Apple's Everyone Can Code
program to provide two new courses for students in Kindergarten to
5th grade

the youngest person at apple's developer conference last year was
*nine* *years* *old*, who had been writing apps since she was *seven*,
with *two* apps on the app store.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...-youngest-app-
developer/85951908/
She started coding at age 7 by watching YouTube instructional videos,
and was motivated to make an app to teach her younger sister how to
identify the names of animals. She used Xcode, an Apple program for
creating mobile apps, and has seen a "few hundred" downloads.

another prodigy:
https://fossbytes.com/tanmay-bakshi-youngest-app-developer/
Tanmay*Bakshi, who lives in Canada, is the world¹s youngest IBM
Watson*programmer. To my surprise, he started coding at a very
young*age of five.

Tanmay has developed an algorithm called ³AskTanmay², which is
designed by taking assistance from*IBM Watson¹s cognitive APIs. It¹s
the world¹s first Web-Based NLQA system.
....
He is currently in seventh grade and a co-author of a book called
Hello Swift, which teaches the basics of iOS coding to the young
learners.

the world needs more kids like that, which is why introducing them to
technology at an early age is *very* important.

rest of your delusional bull**** snipped.

"nospam" wrote

| Worse, when they're taught to navigate Twitter
| they're not also taught to block ads, do advanced
| search, or otherwise use computers as tools.
| They're taught to use them as consumption devices.
| That's all that their tech-shill teacher knows.

| absolutely wrong.

So you didn't read the article. Who needs information
when they have opinions, right? It just confuses things.

| the world needs more kids like that, which is why introducing them to
| technology at an early age is *very* important.
|

Needs more kids like.... the current crop
of tech geniuses, who can't make their own lunch
or hold a conversation without having a tantrum,
but are great contributors to the Linux kernel?

A few people like that are fine. Unfortunate
for them, but good for society. But that's not
the majority, or even a notable minority. You're
talking about rare savants. The vast majority will
not need to understand tech. Even less so than
we do. Just as very few people can change their
car oil today. They don't need to. They only
need to know how to drive.

Part of the problem here is that tech people in
general are very poorly socialized. They become
expert at C++ while living on soda and candy bars,
playing childish video games in their spare time.
They think coding-kids is important because it's
all they know themselves. Tech may breed more
narrow-minded arrogance and lopsided individuals
than any other field. (Well, maybe artists are worse.)

So now we have a big push for STEM. Like all
the kids in the 60s who were going to be astronauts.
You and others fall for the hype hook, line and sinker.
But the kids are not being taught proper literacy,
psychology, history, or life basics like how to read a
nutritional label or what to use to clean a blood stain
from a new shirt. We're not turning out competent
human beings who know how to reflect and analyze.
At best we'll turn out more technicians who live in
their parents' basement and are addicted to video
games. Then they'll be killed crossing the street at
the age of 17 because they were busy on their
cellphones. That's already happening. They don't
ned to learn how to use tech. They know that. They
need to learn how to not use it and actually live in
the world.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| Worse, when they're taught to navigate Twitter
| they're not also taught to block ads, do advanced
| search, or otherwise use computers as tools.
| They're taught to use them as consumption devices.
| That's all that their tech-shill teacher knows.

| absolutely wrong.

So you didn't read the article.

i did.

Who needs information
when they have opinions, right? It just confuses things.

you lead the way on that one.

| the world needs more kids like that, which is why introducing them to
| technology at an early age is *very* important.
|

Needs more kids like.... the current crop
of tech geniuses, who can't make their own lunch
or hold a conversation without having a tantrum,
but are great contributors to the Linux kernel?

you have a very limited social circle.

A few people like that are fine. Unfortunate
for them, but good for society. But that's not
the majority, or even a notable minority. You're
talking about rare savants.

right now it might be rare for a 7 year old to write an app that's on
the app store, but in the future, not so much.

The vast majority will
not need to understand tech. Even less so than
we do. Just as very few people can change their
car oil today. They don't need to. They only
need to know how to drive.

people won't need to know how to drive in the future.

not that very many people do now, but that's another discussion.

Part of the problem here is that tech people in
general are very poorly socialized.

you lead the way on that too.

They become
expert at C++ while living on soda and candy bars,
playing childish video games in their spare time.

which game do you play the most?

They think coding-kids is important because it's
all they know themselves. Tech may breed more
narrow-minded arrogance and lopsided individuals
than any other field. (Well, maybe artists are worse.)

nonsense.

So now we have a big push for STEM. Like all
the kids in the 60s who were going to be astronauts.
You and others fall for the hype hook, line and sinker.
But the kids are not being taught proper literacy,
psychology, history, or life basics like how to read a
nutritional label or what to use to clean a blood stain
from a new shirt.

good point.

kids need to be taught how to murder others without splattering blood
all over everything. then they won't need to clean their shirts.

We're not turning out competent
human beings who know how to reflect and analyze.

with you as a prime example.

At best we'll turn out more technicians who live in
their parents' basement and are addicted to video
games. Then they'll be killed crossing the street at
the age of 17 because they were busy on their
cellphones. That's already happening. They don't
ned to learn how to use tech. They know that. They
need to learn how to not use it and actually live in
the world.

if they're killed at 17, then the younger siblings get the basement to
themselves.

a win-win for everyone.

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:30:03 -0400, Mayayana
wrote:

I thought the DIN idea might be a good one to solve the
Mac font problem. It does seem to be used in traffic signs.
But on looking it up it wasn't clear that there was a free
version for Windows. The font itself is out of copyright,
but someone who creates a font file has rights to that.

I think you're on to the right approach which is to find a commonly found
free road sign font that is also found on both the Mac and on Windows.

I never said I was a font expert so I had to look up what you meant by
"DIN" where I think you specifically mean DIN 1451.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_1451

The key sentence I think you wanted me to see in that description is:
"In 2017, Microsoft announced that it would be including in future Windows
versions "Bahnschrift", a digitisation of DIN 1451 as an OpenType variable
font."

Further searches reveal the Microsoft Bahnschrift announcement:
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...uild-16273-pc/

"What¢s New in Build 16273 For PC
Introducing the Bahnschrift font
Bahnschrift is our own rendition of the DIN font standard.
Apart from being the standard road sign font in Germany and
much of Europe, DIN is frequently used by graphic designers
for its high legibility and clean, hard-working design style."

This means that the font capabilities on Windows are even better than we at
first thought, since we no longer even need to embed the font into the
PowerPoint presentation (although it's a good idea to embed it just in case
people aren't on the latest Windows 10 version).

Do any Mac experts know when the DIN 1451 Bahnschrift road-sign font will
be available by Apple for the Mac?

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 10:23:26 -0400, nospam wrote:

A road-sign font is a specific type of font for a specific use.

so what? macs can use any font.

The problem so far is that the Mac is far less capable than Windows in
every way we look when it comes to font usefulness and compatibility.

For example, Mayayana found the DIN 1451 font already in Windows 10:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_1451
"In 2017, Microsoft announced that it would be including in future
Windows versions "Bahnschrift", a digitisation of DIN 1451 as an
OpenType variable font."

I easily found the Microsoft Bahnschrift announcement:
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...uild-16273-pc/

"What's New in Build 16273 For PC
Introducing the Bahnschrift font
Bahnschrift is our own rendition of the DIN font standard.
Apart from being the standard road sign font in Germany and
much of Europe, DIN is frequently used by graphic designers
for its high legibility and clean, hard-working design style."

So every direction we turn, the Mac is less functional and less compatible
than is Windows and PowerPoint alike.
* Windows comes with a standard road-sign font; the Mac does not.
* Windows PPT can embed fonts; the Mac PPT can't.
* Windwos PPT can read a document with embedded fonts; the Mac PPT can't.

We easily met our functionality and compatibility goal with Windows.
So far, compatibility is impossible on the Mac.

If you know of a native Mac road-sign font, then prove that wrong. Please.

In article , Chaya Eve
wrote:

The problem so far is that the Mac is far less capable than Windows in
every way we look when it comes to font usefulness and compatibility.

nonsense.

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:33:49 -0400, Mayayana
wrote:

His sample looks good to me. When I downloaded
the font it also looked reasonably good in editors.
I think the problem with his sample is that it has a
dark outline around the letters, which makes the
anti-aliasing visibly choppy. But presumably that has
a good effect when read from a distance.

The goal is functionality and compatibility.
* Functionality: Only a road-sign specific font will have it.
* Compatibility: Only the Mac is a problem in compatibility.

I'd love for one of these Mac people to prove me wrong but the Mac:
* Can't embed the font in PowerPoint, and,
* Can't even read an embedded front in PowerPoint, and,
* Doesn't ship with a road-sign font native.

On the other hand, Windows easily kills the Mac in functionality in that:
* It can embed any font we choose into the PowerPoint, and,
* It can read any PowerPoint with the font already embedded, and,
* It ships with a road-sign font native.

In all ways, the Mac is the problem in that it doesn't have the
functionality or the compatibility that Windows has.

If only the Mac shipped with a road-sign specific font, then it would be at
least partly functional and compatible with respect to road-sign fonts.

I would LOVE for a Mac user to prove that statements wrong by telling us:
* Which font ships with Mac that is expressly for road signs, and ,
* Whether that font is also shipping on Windows native.

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:18:02 -0400, nospam wrote:

nonsense.

The goal is functionality and compatibility.
* Functionality: Only a road-sign specific font will have it.
* Compatibility: Only the Mac is a problem in compatibility.

I'd love for one of these Mac people to prove me wrong but the Mac:
* Can't embed the font in PowerPoint, and,
* Can't even read an embedded front in PowerPoint, and,
* Doesn't ship with a road-sign font native.

On the other hand, Windows easily kills the Mac in functionality in that:
* It can embed any font we choose into the PowerPoint, and,
* It can read any PowerPoint with the font already embedded, and,
* It ships with a road-sign font native.

In all ways, the Mac is the problem in that it doesn't have the
functionality or the compatibility that Windows has.

If only the Mac shipped with a road-sign specific font, then it would be at
least partly functional and compatible with respect to road-sign fonts.

I would LOVE for a Mac user to prove that statements wrong by telling us:
* Which font ships with Mac that is expressly for road signs, and ,
* Whether that font is also shipping on Windows native.