Substitute for Kodalk?

LR Kalajainen says...
You can substitute either borax or carbonate for the metaborate. Borax
will give longer development times since it is a weaker activating
agent. Carbonate will give shorter developing times because it is a
more active agent.

Ok i know this. And it's a good think to remind to me!!


But if you don't mind experimenting with the times
to find the right time for normal development, neither substitute is
likely to make much difference in the final image. Both will work.


The only thing is to test by myself, with borax and/or sodium carbonate.
Yeah.
HAve you some starting point to work with?




Ciao,
Stefano Bramato

--
ed io imparo...

In article , John wrote:

Yes but only because it keeps better on the shelf. Also the prepared blend
by a
lab will probably be better than what you can make in your darkroom. When it
comes to
bathroom processing of films, I'm all for the KISS approach. That's why I
prefer D23 it's
simple and simply works.

JD - www.puresilver.org

Metaborate is very easy to mix, I never have any problems.

--
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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 03:16:40 GMT, Gregory Blank wrote:

Metaborate is very easy to mix, I never have any problems.

Yeah but then you're not exactly Joe Average in the darkroom either.

JD - www.puresilver.org

John wrote in message ...
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:03:47 +0100, "Keith Tapscott" wrote:

I have a book published by Kodak titled: KODAK HANDBOOK FOR THE
PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER (VOLUME 4), inside the book is a formulary of
Kodak B&W chemicals, the formula for the 10 grams of Sodium Metaborate
needed for the DK-50 formula using Borax-Decahydrate and Sodium Hydroxide
is
as follows:
Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic soda), dissolve separately in 100 ml of cold
water, 1.5 grams of the caustic soda adding it very slowly, stirring
constantly. NEVER add the water to the caustic soda. The amount of
Borax-Decahydrate that is needed is 7 grams, this book dates back to the
1970s when Sodium Metaborate was not so readily available as it is today
in
the UK.
Don't you think that it would be better to buy the Sodium Metaborate in
the
first place ?

Yes but only because it keeps better on the shelf. Also the prepared blend
by a
lab will probably be better than what you can make in your darkroom. When
it comes to
bathroom processing of films, I'm all for the KISS approach. That's why I
prefer D23 it's
simple and simply works.

JD - www.puresilver.org

John, D-23 is fine by me if that is what you like using, some people who
make their own D-23 or D-25 may wish to use the DK-25R replenisher which
requires 20 grams of Sodium Metaborate, now you could use 2.9 grams of
Sodium Hydroxide and 14 grams of Borax-Decahydrate, but you mention that you
like to keep things simple, isn't buying and using Sodium Metaborate in the
first place the KISS approach ? It is hardly an expensive component to buy
and far less hassle than dissolving two separate components.
I sometimes use one of the sons of D-23 called Ilford Perceptol, luvverly
stuff !
Cheers,
Keith.

I don't know what film you're using, but I use both Delta 400 and Fuji
ACROS 100. I use a Phenidone/Ascorbic Acid/Carbonate developer.

With Delta 400, a good starting time would be 5:30 at 20C.
With ACROS, 7:30 at 20C.

Stefano Bramato wrote:

LR Kalajainen says...


You can substitute either borax or carbonate for the metaborate. Borax
will give longer development times since it is a weaker activating
agent. Carbonate will give shorter developing times because it is a
more active agent.



Ok i know this. And it's a good think to remind to me!!




But if you don't mind experimenting with the times
to find the right time for normal development, neither substitute is
likely to make much difference in the final image. Both will work.




The only thing is to test by myself, with borax and/or sodium carbonate.
Yeah.
HAve you some starting point to work with?




Ciao,
Stefano Bramato

--
ed io imparo...

LR Kalajainen says ...
I don't know what film you're using, but I use both Delta 400 and Fuji
ACROS 100. I use a Phenidone/Ascorbic Acid/Carbonate developer.

With Delta 400, a good starting time would be 5:30 at 20C.
With ACROS, 7:30 at 20C.


Most of time I use Neopan 400
and Acros 100 for 120 format rolls.

But in this time i'm experimenting with delta 400 so it's ok.

Can you send to me the exact recipe for your soup?
I'm everytime a newbie and don't want to go wrong!!

Ciao,
Stefano Bramato

--
ed io imparo...

You're in luck. I've also used Fuji Neopan 400 and have times for it as
well.

2 g. Ascorbic Acid
5 g Sodium Metaborate (For Fuji, substitute 6 g Sodium Carbonate)
4ml 1% Phenidone solution (1 g Phenidone dissolved in 100 ml 90% alcohol)

Delta 400--6:30 at 22C.
Fuji:--7:00 at 22C. (with carbonate instead of metaborate. With
metaborate, 10 minutes at 22C.)

Hope this works for you as well as it's worked for me.
Larry


Stefano Bramato wrote:

LR Kalajainen says ...


I don't know what film you're using, but I use both Delta 400 and Fuji
ACROS 100. I use a Phenidone/Ascorbic Acid/Carbonate developer.

With Delta 400, a good starting time would be 5:30 at 20C.
With ACROS, 7:30 at 20C.




Most of time I use Neopan 400
and Acros 100 for 120 format rolls.

But in this time i'm experimenting with delta 400 so it's ok.

Can you send to me the exact recipe for your soup?
I'm everytime a newbie and don't want to go wrong!!

Ciao,
Stefano Bramato

--
ed io imparo...

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:28:09 -0400, LR Kalajainen wrote:

You can substitute either borax or carbonate for the metaborate. Borax
will give longer development times since it is a weaker activating
agent. Carbonate will give shorter developing times because it is a
more active agent. But if you don't mind experimenting with the times
to find the right time for normal development, neither substitute is
likely to make much difference in the final image. Both will work.

I have found quite a significant difference. When images are developed to the same
contrast index, those developed in carbonate are significantly grainier than those
developed in Borax .

JD - www.puresilver.org

I think this depends on the film.

I mostly use the T-grain films (Delta, ACROS, (new) Neopan and it's
pretty hard for me to tell much difference in grain size in enlargments
up to 11X14. I suspect with older films, TX, FP4, etc, you're correct.

John wrote:

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:28:09 -0400, LR Kalajainen wrote:



You can substitute either borax or carbonate for the metaborate. Borax
will give longer development times since it is a weaker activating
agent. Carbonate will give shorter developing times because it is a
more active agent. But if you don't mind experimenting with the times
to find the right time for normal development, neither substitute is
likely to make much difference in the final image. Both will work.



I have found quite a significant difference. When images are developed to the same
contrast index, those developed in carbonate are significantly grainier than those
developed in Borax .

JD - www.puresilver.org

John wrote

[films] developed in carbonate are significantly grainier than those
developed in Borax .

The only use I have found for extra carbonate is in paper developer
where it deepens the shadows a smidge.

Adding carbonate for the shadows and a (small) amount of p. bromide
to keep highlights clear was recommended by - ? - Minor White (so
I imagine the addition leads to a more spiritual experience).

Lootens claims carbonate can be used to salvage almost exhausted paper
developer -- useful to know if paper developer can't be found
around the corner and you find yourself short. I have never tried
it.

--
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Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
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