Calling all HC-110 users....

If there are any ;=)

I love dil B, and have used it primarily for the last year or so on a host
of film types, but am finding a fork in the road.

Some development times are getting so short, that it's almost laughable
(Fuji Acros 120, 4.5 minutes).

Has anyone used HC-110 at some of the higher dilutions? And with good
results? What might I expect to be different than dilution B? I mix my B
straight from the syrup at the 1:31 ratio.

I am also debating buying some raw Metol and trying to mix my own D23 to
develop film too. Can that be mixed in 8, or 16 oz batches, just prior to
developing a roll of 120?

Thanks for any help....

Has anyone used HC-110 at some of the higher dilutions? And with good
results? What might I expect to be different than dilution B? I mix my B
straight from the syrup at the 1:31 ratio.

I use LC-29 in 1:39 dilution, which is an HC-110 H (1:63) equivalent. I can
hardly see any difference between B and H on 18x24 prints from 35mm.

With Neopan 400 I get very smooth grain, even on some generously overexposed frames.

What is really useful about HC-110 is it's linear dilution/dev time
characteristic. You may safely double dilution doubling the development time.

Regards,
Stanislaw

Dickless Cheney wrote:
If there are any ;=)

I love dil B, and have used it primarily for the last year or so on a host
of film types, but am finding a fork in the road.

Some development times are getting so short, that it's almost laughable
(Fuji Acros 120, 4.5 minutes).

Has anyone used HC-110 at some of the higher dilutions? And with good
results? What might I expect to be different than dilution B? I mix my B
straight from the syrup at the 1:31 ratio.

I am also debating buying some raw Metol and trying to mix my own D23 to
develop film too. Can that be mixed in 8, or 16 oz batches, just prior to
developing a roll of 120?

Thanks for any help....



I can't help you with D-23, except to say that if you have a formula,
you can multiply or divide all ingredients (including water, of course)
by the same factor and mix any size batch you want/need -- and the
ability to mix just before use, directly to final dilution, is one of
the selling points of making your own developers from raw chemicals. If
you like to work rapidly in the darkroom, some formulae even work well
with all the chemicals premeasured and stored in a single vial or
envelope; when ready to develop, just drop the contents into water and
mix, without stopping to weigh ingredients (others don't; some require
mixing in a particular order and don't work well if you dump everything
in at once).

For HC-110, I've used Dilution H (half strength of Dilution B) and
Dilution G (1:119 from syrup, or preferably 1:29 from stock solution)
almost exclusively for the past year -- I've done Dilution B a couple
times, and a few tests with my monobath formula, which is at Dilution A
strength for rapid working, but the bulk of my film, including both old
TX and new 400TX in 135, TMY in 120, Fomapan 100 in 9x12 cm sheets,
Kodak Imagelink HQ and Agfa Copex Rapid microfilms (at pictorial
contrast), have been done in Dilution H or Dilution G.

For H, I find I need somewhat less than twice the process time; in fact,
for scanning (which typically works best with less density and contrast
than printing) I find H at the recommended B time isn't far off; IIRC my
last batch of TMY done in H was at 7 minutes.

Dilution G is strongly compensating, with less grain solvency than B,
and makes contrast control very simple -- find the time that gives fully
developed shadows, and then agitate more or less to obtain the required
contrast. With TMY, I've mostly given fifteen minutes at 70 F, though
others are likely to want a bit more (again, I've been scanning my
negatives, which pushes toward keeping them thinnish). With semi-stand
development (agitation continuous first minute, then one cycle halfway
through development only), I get pretty nearly N-2; agitation on a five
minute cycle, I get effectively an N-1 (approximately; I don't have a
densitometer to measure this); three minute agitation gives something
very close to N, and one minute agitation gives about N+1. Longer
development with one minute agitation would, of course, give additional
N+ levels if needed, but probably little if any additional speed
increase; the basic process with three minute agitation seems to give a
toe speed better than Dilution B at recommended times and agitation
regimes -- and unlike most N+ to N- controls, speed changes very little
if at all from one minute to semi-stand agitation, because the shadows
get the same development even while dilution and reduced agitation rein
in the highlights.

Also, Dilution G, with very low agitation (five minute or longer cycles,
up to full stand development) works well for contrast control of
microfilm stocks that would typically call for special contrast
controlling developers like Technidol LC, POTA, Nanospeed, etc. I've
gotten a one stop speed increase over normal pictorial speeds (Imagelink
HQ at EI 50, Copex Rapid at EI 100) using Dilution G with very low
agitation. My experience is that five minute agitation is best; longer
cycles allow too much edge effect for my tastes in the 16 mm film sizes
for which I use these films (doesn't take much edge halo or contrast
enhancement to look really odd in a 10x14 mm frame -- and that would go
double in an 8x11 mm Minox frame).

From all this, I guess you'd say I've been happy with my results in
higher dilutions than B -- in fact, the versatility offered by using
different dilutions is one of the big selling points for HC-110, IMO.
You won't find many times listed for these higher dilutions, but my
working rule of thumb is to add 40-50% to the recommended Dilution B
times for Dilution H, and double to triple B times for Dilution G (many
workers prefer doubling B times for H, and approximately quadrupling for
G, but I find I need to cut my times with B, and this factor compensates
that). As with any process, these are just starting points that you
will need to adjust for your particular preferences and needs in
negative condition, metering and camera techniques, thermometer
calibration, tank and chemical handling, etc.

Very important points: first, be sure you have enough working solution,
especially at Dilution G. You must have at least 3 ml of original syrup
for each roll of film (135-36 or 120 -- twice that for 220, of course)
or sheet equivalent (8x10, or 4 4x5) in order to avoid capacity
failures, typically characterized by intermittent problems with loss of
contrast due to exhaustion. Second, for dilutions equal or weaker than
Dilution H, and especially in small quantities (like the two ounces of
working solution I use for my two-foot strips of 16 mm film from a
Minolta 16), it's much, much easier to mix accurately from a stock
solution made in sufficient volume to allow accurate mixing of the
concentrate. One drop of syrup more or less makes a huge difference in
concentration when you're using 0.5 ml of syrup to mix 2 ounces of
working solution at 1:119, but when you're mixing 2 ounces of stock and
using 40 ml of syrup to do it, a couple drops either way hardly matters
-- and then using 2 ml of stock to mix the working solution, a drop or
two makes little enough difference to live with. The stock keeps just
as well in a four ounce bottle with tight lid as it would in a liter
bottle, and you'll use up four ounces pretty rapidly if you develop at
all regularly. Of course, the syrup keeps almost forever as long as the
lid is sealed...

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Dickless Cheney wrote:
If there are any ;=)

I love dil B, and have used it primarily for the last year or so on a host
of film types, but am finding a fork in the road.

Some development times are getting so short, that it's almost laughable
(Fuji Acros 120, 4.5 minutes).

Has anyone used HC-110 at some of the higher dilutions? And with good
results? What might I expect to be different than dilution B? I mix my B
straight from the syrup at the 1:31 ratio.

I am also debating buying some raw Metol and trying to mix my own D23 to
develop film too. Can that be mixed in 8, or 16 oz batches, just prior to
developing a roll of 120?

Thanks for any help....



I can't help you with D-23, except to say that if you have a formula,
you can multiply or divide all ingredients (including water, of course)
by the same factor and mix any size batch you want/need -- and the
ability to mix just before use, directly to final dilution, is one of
the selling points of making your own developers from raw chemicals. If
you like to work rapidly in the darkroom, some formulae even work well
with all the chemicals premeasured and stored in a single vial or
envelope; when ready to develop, just drop the contents into water and
mix, without stopping to weigh ingredients (others don't; some require
mixing in a particular order and don't work well if you dump everything
in at once).

For HC-110, I've used Dilution H (half strength of Dilution B) and
Dilution G (1:119 from syrup, or preferably 1:29 from stock solution)
almost exclusively for the past year -- I've done Dilution B a couple
times, and a few tests with my monobath formula, which is at Dilution A
strength for rapid working, but the bulk of my film, including both old
TX and new 400TX in 135, TMY in 120, Fomapan 100 in 9x12 cm sheets,
Kodak Imagelink HQ and Agfa Copex Rapid microfilms (at pictorial
contrast), have been done in Dilution H or Dilution G.

For H, I find I need somewhat less than twice the process time; in fact,
for scanning (which typically works best with less density and contrast
than printing) I find H at the recommended B time isn't far off; IIRC my
last batch of TMY done in H was at 7 minutes.

Dilution G is strongly compensating, with less grain solvency than B,
and makes contrast control very simple -- find the time that gives fully
developed shadows, and then agitate more or less to obtain the required
contrast. With TMY, I've mostly given fifteen minutes at 70 F, though
others are likely to want a bit more (again, I've been scanning my
negatives, which pushes toward keeping them thinnish). With semi-stand
development (agitation continuous first minute, then one cycle halfway
through development only), I get pretty nearly N-2; agitation on a five
minute cycle, I get effectively an N-1 (approximately; I don't have a
densitometer to measure this); three minute agitation gives something
very close to N, and one minute agitation gives about N+1. Longer
development with one minute agitation would, of course, give additional
N+ levels if needed, but probably little if any additional speed
increase; the basic process with three minute agitation seems to give a
toe speed better than Dilution B at recommended times and agitation
regimes -- and unlike most N+ to N- controls, speed changes very little
if at all from one minute to semi-stand agitation, because the shadows
get the same development even while dilution and reduced agitation rein
in the highlights.

Also, Dilution G, with very low agitation (five minute or longer cycles,
up to full stand development) works well for contrast control of
microfilm stocks that would typically call for special contrast
controlling developers like Technidol LC, POTA, Nanospeed, etc. I've
gotten a one stop speed increase over normal pictorial speeds (Imagelink
HQ at EI 50, Copex Rapid at EI 100) using Dilution G with very low
agitation. My experience is that five minute agitation is best; longer
cycles allow too much edge effect for my tastes in the 16 mm film sizes
for which I use these films (doesn't take much edge halo or contrast
enhancement to look really odd in a 10x14 mm frame -- and that would go
double in an 8x11 mm Minox frame).

From all this, I guess you'd say I've been happy with my results in
higher dilutions than B -- in fact, the versatility offered by using
different dilutions is one of the big selling points for HC-110, IMO.
You won't find many times listed for these higher dilutions, but my
working rule of thumb is to add 40-50% to the recommended Dilution B
times for Dilution H, and double to triple B times for Dilution G (many
workers prefer doubling B times for H, and approximately quadrupling for
G, but I find I need to cut my times with B, and this factor compensates
that). As with any process, these are just starting points that you
will need to adjust for your particular preferences and needs in
negative condition, metering and camera techniques, thermometer
calibration, tank and chemical handling, etc.

Very important points: first, be sure you have enough working solution,
especially at Dilution G. You must have at least 3 ml of original syrup
for each roll of film (135-36 or 120 -- twice that for 220, of course)
or sheet equivalent (8x10, or 4 4x5) in order to avoid capacity
failures, typically characterized by intermittent problems with loss of
contrast due to exhaustion. Second, for dilutions equal or weaker than
Dilution H, and especially in small quantities (like the two ounces of
working solution I use for my two-foot strips of 16 mm film from a
Minolta 16), it's much, much easier to mix accurately from a stock
solution made in sufficient volume to allow accurate mixing of the
concentrate. One drop of syrup more or less makes a huge difference in
concentration when you're using 0.5 ml of syrup to mix 2 ounces of
working solution at 1:119, but when you're mixing 2 ounces of stock and
using 40 ml of syrup to do it, a couple drops either way hardly matters
-- and then using 2 ml of stock to mix the working solution, a drop or
two makes little enough difference to live with. The stock keeps just
as well in a four ounce bottle with tight lid as it would in a liter
bottle, and you'll use up four ounces pretty rapidly if you develop at
all regularly. Of course, the syrup keeps almost forever as long as the
lid is sealed...

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.

Dickless Cheney wrote:

I am also debating buying some raw Metol and trying to mix my own D23 to
develop film too. Can that be mixed in 8, or 16 oz batches, just prior to
developing a roll of 120?


I do that. I mix it up diluted already.

Nick

Dickless Cheney wrote:

I am also debating buying some raw Metol and trying to mix my own D23 to
develop film too. Can that be mixed in 8, or 16 oz batches, just prior to
developing a roll of 120?


I do that. I mix it up diluted already.

Nick

Understood. See:
www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110


--
Clear skies,

Michael A. Covington
Author, Astrophotography for the Amateur
www.covingtoninnovations.com/astromenu.html

Understood. See:
www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110


--
Clear skies,

Michael A. Covington
Author, Astrophotography for the Amateur
www.covingtoninnovations.com/astromenu.html

"Nick Zentena" wrote in message
...
Dickless Cheney wrote:

I am also debating buying some raw Metol and trying to mix my own D23 to
develop film too. Can that be mixed in 8, or 16 oz batches, just prior to
developing a roll of 120?


I do that. I mix it up diluted already.

Nick


The reason this is a relevant question is that some developers reportedly
need to "season" for a few hours before use.

I suspect that if you use distilled water, and do it the same way each time
(either "seasoning" or not), then you'll have no problem. You'll adjust
your developing time to suit your needs, and then it will be reproducible.

"Nick Zentena" wrote in message
...
Dickless Cheney wrote:

I am also debating buying some raw Metol and trying to mix my own D23 to
develop film too. Can that be mixed in 8, or 16 oz batches, just prior to
developing a roll of 120?


I do that. I mix it up diluted already.

Nick


The reason this is a relevant question is that some developers reportedly
need to "season" for a few hours before use.

I suspect that if you use distilled water, and do it the same way each time
(either "seasoning" or not), then you'll have no problem. You'll adjust
your developing time to suit your needs, and then it will be reproducible.