Substitute for Kodalk?

Stefano Bramato wrote:

The only thing is to test by myself, ...


If one is going custom blend an alkali why bother
with borax, lye, and metaborate? Blend a custom alkali using
carbonate and bicarbonate.
What is so great about metaborate? Two things; Kodak and Kodalk.
I seem to recall reading that Kodak developed a process for producing
sodium metaborate. As it does fill the bill as an alkali twixt the
ph of carbonate and bicarbonate Kodalk pushed the product. For ph
control, Kodalk - sodium metaborate, is not needed.
For any usuall film and print developing a combination of
carbonate/bicarbonate can be compounded for shorter or longer
developing times. If you have a way to check ph, experiment some
by testing the ph of a few blends of the two carbonates. Dan

Stefano Bramato wrote:

The only thing is to test by myself, ...


If one is going custom blend an alkali why bother
with borax, lye, and metaborate? Blend a custom alkali using
carbonate and bicarbonate.
What is so great about metaborate? Two things; Kodak and Kodalk.
I seem to recall reading that Kodak developed a process for producing
sodium metaborate. As it does fill the bill as an alkali twixt the
ph of carbonate and bicarbonate Kodalk pushed the product. For ph
control, Kodalk - sodium metaborate, is not needed.
For any usuall film and print developing a combination of
carbonate/bicarbonate can be compounded for shorter or longer
developing times. If you have a way to check ph, experiment some
by testing the ph of a few blends of the two carbonates. Dan

wrote:
Stefano Bramato wrote:

The only thing is to test by myself, ...



If one is going custom blend an alkali why bother
with borax, lye, and metaborate? Blend a custom alkali using
carbonate and bicarbonate.
What is so great about metaborate? Two things; Kodak and Kodalk.

Different buffering can be arranged with different compounds. Kodalk is
Kodak's brand of sodium metaborate. But it is a useful component of a
buffering solution. Here are some.

Ph Components
2.0 Glycocoil-sodium chloride-hydrochloric acid
2.8 Potassium acid pthalate-hydrochloric acid
3.7 Primary potassium citrate
4.6 Acetic acid-sodium acetate
5.0 Potassium acid phthalate-sodium hydroxide
5.0 Secondary sodium citrate
6.8 Potassium acid phosphate-disodium phosphate
6.8 Potassium acid phosphate-sodium hydroxide
8.5 Boric acid-borax
9.2 Borax
9.2 Boric acid-sodium hydroxide
10.2 Sodium bicarbonate-sodium carbonate
11.5 Disodium phosphate-sodium hydroxide

What you use depends on the pH you wish to achieve and the capacity you
need. I.e., you would not wish to mix hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide
in different amounts to get the desired pH because the amount of each would
be too small to do any significant buffering even though almost any initial
pH could be achieved.

Note that developer D-76 uses 2 grams of Borax to achieve the desired pH.
D-76d should have about the same pH initially, but holds it better. It uses
8 grams of borax and 8 grams of boric acid.
DK-76 uses 2 grams of sodium metaborate (Kodalk).

These probably all give an initial pH of around 8.5.

I seem to recall reading that Kodak developed a process for producing
sodium metaborate. As it does fill the bill as an alkali twixt the
ph of carbonate and bicarbonate Kodalk pushed the product. For ph
control, Kodalk - sodium metaborate, is not needed.
For any usuall film and print developing a combination of
carbonate/bicarbonate can be compounded for shorter or longer
developing times. If you have a way to check ph, experiment some
by testing the ph of a few blends of the two carbonates. Dan



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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:27:08 +0100, "Keith Tapscott" wrote:

John, D-23 is fine by me if that is what you like using, some people who
make their own D-23 or D-25 may wish to use the DK-25R replenisher which
requires 20 grams of Sodium Metaborate, now you could use 2.9 grams of
Sodium Hydroxide and 14 grams of Borax-Decahydrate, but you mention that you
like to keep things simple, isn't buying and using Sodium Metaborate in the
first place the KISS approach ? It is hardly an expensive component to buy
and far less hassle than dissolving two separate components.
I sometimes use one of the sons of D-23 called Ilford Perceptol, luvverly
stuff !
Cheers,
Keith.

I agree but I don't use metaborate or hydroxide anymore. I only use carbonate for
paper developers. Now D-23 with about 1.0 g/L of metaborate might be interesting. A
spit-stock mixed immediately prior to use. Hmmmm, might just have to try that sometime.
Thanks for the idea.

JD - www.puresilver.org

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:18:52 -0400, LR Kalajainen wrote:

I think this depends on the film.

I mostly use the T-grain films (Delta, ACROS, (new) Neopan and it's
pretty hard for me to tell much difference in grain size in enlargments
up to 11X14. I suspect with older films, TX, FP4, etc, you're correct.

Actually I only use Delta or T-Max. The other films are interesting but I prefer
fine grain and high resolution. The film I specifically tried with carbonate was T-Max
100. It looked like P3200 pulled to EI800.

JD - www.puresilver.org

Carbonate is the principal alkali in most paper developers.

I also use it to give me somewhat shorter developing times with Fuji
ACROS and Neopan than I can get with metaborate, and the grain is fine
enough that I have difficulty finding with my 25X Scoponet it in order
to focus at an 11X14 enlargement.

Larry

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

John wrote



[films] developed in carbonate are significantly grainier than those
developed in Borax .



The only use I have found for extra carbonate is in paper developer
where it deepens the shadows a smidge.

Adding carbonate for the shadows and a (small) amount of p. bromide
to keep highlights clear was recommended by - ? - Minor White (so
I imagine the addition leads to a more spiritual experience).

Lootens claims carbonate can be used to salvage almost exhausted paper
developer -- useful to know if paper developer can't be found
around the corner and you find yourself short. I have never tried
it.

This may be true with a metol-based developer; I don't know. My film
developer is a very simple, 3-ingredient affair, using Phenidone,
Vitamin C powder, and either metaborate or carbonate depending on which
film. These give me developing times in the 6-7 minute range with full
tonal scale and extremely fine grain and very high acutance. Since I
hate grainy negs, I wouldn't be using it if it gave me enlarged grain.
If you want to try it, here's the formula.

1/2tsp Vitamin C powder (4g)
1 tsp metaborate (5g) or carbonate (6g) depending on film (carbonate for
D-100, ACROS, and Neopan)
4 ml 1% stock Phenidone
1 liter water

My times: D-400 rated at 200: 6:00 at 72F
Fuji ACROS rated at 50 7:15 at 72F
Neopan rated at 200: 6:30 at 72F
HP5+ sheets tray developed, rated at 200: 6:30 at 72F

I've been told by my chemical betters that I could get by with half the
Phenidone without any change, and I just haven't gotten round to trying it.

Larry



John wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:18:52 -0400, LR Kalajainen wrote:



I think this depends on the film.

I mostly use the T-grain films (Delta, ACROS, (new) Neopan and it's
pretty hard for me to tell much difference in grain size in enlargments
up to 11X14. I suspect with older films, TX, FP4, etc, you're correct.



Actually I only use Delta or T-Max. The other films are interesting but I prefer
fine grain and high resolution. The film I specifically tried with carbonate was T-Max
100. It looked like P3200 pulled to EI800.

JD - www.puresilver.org

LR Kalajainen says ...
This may be true with a metol-based developer; I don't know. My film
developer is a very simple, 3-ingredient affair, using Phenidone,
Vitamin C powder, and either metaborate or carbonate depending on which
film. These give me developing times in the 6-7 minute range with full
tonal scale and extremely fine grain and very high acutance. Since I
hate grainy negs, I wouldn't be using it if it gave me enlarged grain.
If you want to try it, here's the formula.

1/2tsp Vitamin C powder (4g)
1 tsp metaborate (5g) or carbonate (6g) depending on film (carbonate for
D-100, ACROS, and Neopan)
4 ml 1% stock Phenidone
1 liter water

My times: D-400 rated at 200: 6:00 at 72F
Fuji ACROS rated at 50 7:15 at 72F
Neopan rated at 200: 6:30 at 72F
HP5+ sheets tray developed, rated at 200: 6:30 at 72F



FAntastic. We use almost the same films.
I'm so grateful to you!!
I can learn more so I'm haaaaaaaaaaaappppy!!



Ciao,
Stefano Bramato

--
ed io imparo...

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:29:51 -0400, LR Kalajainen wrote:

Carbonate is the principal alkali in most paper developers.

I also use it to give me somewhat shorter developing times with Fuji
ACROS and Neopan than I can get with metaborate, and the grain is fine
enough that I have difficulty finding with my 25X Scoponet it in order
to focus at an 11X14 enlargement.

Just call me picky but I can find the grain in Tech Pan at 25X. Using D76, grain
is easily visible in most prints from 400 ASA film at 6X and in 100ASA prints at 10X.

JD - www.puresilver.org

Yep, you're right about D-76, which is why I don't use it. The
Phenidone/Vit.C formula gives much finer grain. It's not that I can't
see it at all, but relatively speaking, it's fine enough with a 4X5
negative to cause me difficulties in focusing with a grain focuser.

John wrote:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:29:51 -0400, LR Kalajainen wrote:



Carbonate is the principal alkali in most paper developers.

I also use it to give me somewhat shorter developing times with Fuji
ACROS and Neopan than I can get with metaborate, and the grain is fine
enough that I have difficulty finding with my 25X Scoponet it in order
to focus at an 11X14 enlargement.



Just call me picky but I can find the grain in Tech Pan at 25X. Using D76, grain
is easily visible in most prints from 400 ASA film at 6X and in 100ASA prints at 10X.

JD - www.puresilver.org