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#1
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings
"Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings"
As is well known on these newsgroups, generally Apple iOS smartphone camera functionality historically has been rated in the bottom of the top ten or dozen best smartphone cameras over the past few years. That's not bad, but it's nowhere near what most Apple users seem to *think* their cameras are rated (they never look at ratings - they just read marketing blurbs). Recently, a welcome one-time anomaly occurred where the iPhone 8 actually scored better camera functionality than all the smartphone cameras! But only briefly. "Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings" "Well, that was quick! The iPhone 8 Plus had a short reign at camera testing outfit DxOMark as "the best smartphone camera we've ever tested" - the Galaxy Note 8 tied it after only a few weeks. And now Google's Pixel 2 has bested them both. The folks at DxOMark are experts, and I trust their determination here. There's no doubt the Pixel 2 has an amazing camera." https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/04/pixel-2-dethrones-iphone-8-plus-and-galaxy-note-8-in-camera-rankings/ |
#2
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings
In article , harry newton
wrote: ...The folks at DxOMark are experts, and I trust their determination here. dxomark are experts at bull****. dxo has rated some nikon slrs to perform better than physics allows. that means their tests are completely meaningless. as for smartphones, chew on this: https://www.androidcentral.com/editors-desk-dxomark-worthless Firstly, let's address the flaws of using a single number to sum up the entire mobile camera experience. Reducing a smartphone camera to a percentage score has the problem of being at once too vague and too specific. A number ‹ a non-weighted average ‹ doesn't do justice to the complexity of modern smartphone cameras, where performance can vary widely depending on the situation, and not all factors are equally important. At the same time, a score out of 100 implies precision. The OnePlus 5, Huawei P10 and Samsung Galaxy S6 edge+ are all equally good, the numbers tell us. The LG G6 and Moto G4 Plus, also equal, with DxO scores of 84. Anyone who's used these devices out in the real world will tell you the reality is not even close. Meanwhile, DxO rates the Galaxy S6 edge+ as an 87, whereas the Galaxy Note 5 is an 86. Both phones have the same internal hardware and camera modules. There's a one-point variance between these two phones, which in imaging terms are identical. There's also a one-point difference between a Samsung Galaxy S8 and a Sony Xperia Z5, which are light-years apart in real-world performance. .... Like a wily student preparing for a standardized test, manufacturers who partner with DxO, and get access to its hardware and software, can tune their image processing to ace the firm's synthetic tests (within the limits of the hardware, of course). As a result, their review scores are higher when DxO eventually publishes them ‹ because they've had access to the testing hardware all along. Manufacturers who don't partner with DxO are at an automatic disadvantage in terms of their score, even though real-world, outside-of-the-lab image quality might not be substantially worse. When that happens, as it is bound to, consumers who put faith in comparisons between scores from partners and non-partners are potentially misled. tl;dr not only are the tests bogus, but google rigged the results, the same as what samsung did a few years ago with cpu benchmarks: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...nchmarking-adj ustments-inflate-scores-by-up-to-20/ After a good bit of sleuthing, we can confidently say that Samsung appears to be artificially boosting the US Note 3's benchmark scores with a special, high-power CPU mode that kicks in when the device runs a large number of popular benchmarking apps.*Samsung did*something similar with the international Galaxy S 4's GPU, but this is the first time we've seen the boost on a US device. We also found a way to disable this special CPU mode, so for the first time we can see just how much Samsung's benchmark optimizations affect benchmark scores. |
#3
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings
He who is nospam said on Thu, 05 Oct 2017 01:18:37 -0400:
...The folks at DxOMark are experts, and I trust their determination here. dxomark are experts at bull****. You bring up a good point in that DXOMark "experts" may be "not experts", where you'd then have to find some *other* comprehensive long-standing and reliable test of all smartphones, for us to rely upon. Let's see if the rec.photo.digital experts concur with you as they are the acknowledged experts in such matters. that means their tests are completely meaningless. I'm sure all of us (including me) would love to see another comprehensive test structure for reporting on the relative camera functionality of all smartphones over a period of many years. Do any of the rec.photo.digital experts know of such a comparison review? https://www.androidcentral.com/editors-desk-dxomark-worthless Firstly, let's address the flaws of using a single number to sum up the entire mobile camera experience. Your observation is correct - but you need to propose a better solution, which would be a better site for assessing the camera functionality of all smartphones over time. Using a single number as a summary is a well-known and well practiced method of choosing among many items over long periods of time - but any intelligent person also realizes that the weighting of each factor that went into the number matters, not only to the aggregate group - but to an individual. For just one example, lens-induced chromatic aberration may be unimportant to some, and meaningful to others - so if it hurts the ratings - it may not be a meaningful hurt to some. The solution would be to find multiple sites that rank all smartphone camera functionality over time - to keep them honest. Like a wily student preparing for a standardized test, manufacturers who partner with DxO, and get access to its hardware and software, can tune their image processing to ace the firm's synthetic tests (within the limits of the hardware, of course). As a fan of automotive and motorcycle performance test when I was a college kid forever in graduate school, I agree that the manufacturers can game a flawed system. Again, what we need to protect us from gamed reviews is a healthy set of reviews to compare against. Do the folks on r.p.d know of a *better* all-encompassing review of all smartphone camera functionalities for all smartphones over a long period of time? (I'm not asking about the zillions of one-off tests between the current fads but of comprehensive methodical tests of all smartphones.) |
#4
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings
He who is JF Mezei said on Thu, 5 Oct 2017 02:50:44 -0400:
"Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings" Until the Pixel 2 ships, how can one make evaluations of its production unit capabilities? I agree and have seen cases where manufacturers gamed the "test units", as have all of us. As with motorcycle "bhp" and radio "eirp" power tests, it seems that all the manufacturers' MARKETING organizations lie - so what we need is an "independent" comprehensive reviewers. The problem is that I don't know of any other "comprehensive" reviewer and I certainly don't know of an "independent" reviewer (e.g., of the likes of Consumers Union, who possibly is the most independent, and even they succumb to industry pressure at times, e.g., the Bose controversy of times long past). While both dry spec comparisons and one-off current-fad comparisons abound, what we need is another systematic comprehensive smartphone camera-output comparison whose results we can compare with DXOmark. I doubt we will find an "independent" comparison that isn't vulnerable to being gamed by the manufacturers - but it would be helpful to find another systematic smartphone camera comparison outfit to keep the DXOMark team honest. Do any of the r.p.d experts know of a *better* comprehensive smartphone camera-output comparison test report? |
#5
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings
He who is RichA said on Thu, 5 Oct 2017 01:40:15 -0700 (PDT):
I don't know about phones, but for cameras, DXO thinks changing the sensor causes the LENS to change sharpness. A *******ization of test results that plays into the hands of fools. What do you suggest as a better independent comprehensive test report? We seem to have the classic unsolvable problem that nobody (who posted) likes the DXOmark tests, and yet, nobody (yet) has suggested a more independent or more accurate or more comprehensive overall test of smartphone camera functionality. It's easy to debase the work that DXOmark did - but is there something better for us to use to compare the camera output of all smartphones on a reliable test of what matters? If yes ... where is that more reliable comprehensive test? If now ... then that's the best we have (where the alternative is nothing). |
#6
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings
In article om, JF
Mezei wrote: Until the Pixel 2 ships, how can one make evaluations of its production unit capabilities? because google paid dxo and shipped them pre-release phones that were tweaked to do well on their benchmarks. |
#7
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings
In article , harry newton
wrote: The problem is that I don't know of any other "comprehensive" reviewer and you don't know much of anything, other than trolling. one of the most comprehensive camera review sites, both for traditional cameras and now smartphones, is dpreview.com. some of their reviews are 20-30 *pages* long and take as much as 6-8 weeks to complete. |
#8
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings
In article ,
RichA wrote: I don't know about phones, but for cameras, phones are the most commonly used cameras. DXO thinks changing the sensor causes the LENS to change sharpness. A *******ization of test results that plays into the hands of fools. now that's funny. |
#9
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camerarankings
On 10/4/17, 9:37 PM, in article , "harry newton"
wrote: "Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camera rankings" As is well known on these newsgroups, generally Apple iOS smartphone camera functionality historically has been rated in the bottom of the top ten or dozen best smartphone cameras over the past few years. This is a claim you made but never supported -- in fact your own links refuted this claim But you lie a lot. https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo Where is your video? I keep asking and you keep running. And you always will. Face it -- you were busted lying. .... -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308 |
#10
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Pixel 2 dethrones iPhone 8 Plus and Galaxy Note 8 in camerarankings
On 10/5/17, 6:49 AM, in article ,
"nospam" wrote: In article , harry newton wrote: The problem is that I don't know of any other "comprehensive" reviewer and you don't know much of anything, other than trolling. one of the most comprehensive camera review sites, both for traditional cameras and now smartphones, is dpreview.com. some of their reviews are 20-30 *pages* long and take as much as 6-8 weeks to complete. And keep in mind his own sources refuted his claims. He simply lies to troll. -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308 |
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