Is a "bigger, brighter" viewfinder worth it? (D80 vs D50)

Hi Everyone,

I really like my D50, but the upcoming D80 has me wondering -- with the
bigger LCD display and the bigger, brighter viewfinder -- these are two
features I, in my picture taking, could really use, IF they made a
difference. I can see where seeing more detail, "on the fly" on the LCD
screen, would allow me to figure out if I had to reshoot, and, if so, better
how to adjust my camera's settings. However, will a bigger, brighter
viewfinder aid me in achieving good manual focus? I take lots of insect
macro pictures (2 inches away from dragonflies, etc), and accurate focus is
a challenge for me. I want to eventually achieve pixel-level focus,
manually, and I'm wondering if a brighter viewfinder would help.

Also, will the D80 sensor be significantly better than the D50 sensor?
Other than megapixel count, I mean -- such as sensitivity, noise level, etc.

Thanks for any help,
Scott

I love my D50 too. I would like the bigger viewfinder and added
features of the D80. We will have to wait to make a judgment on image
quality, other than resolution, and see more pictures and test results.
I will be surprised if the D80 has lower noise or better dynamic range
than the D50 with its smaller pixels. It might though be able to match
the d50, which would be excellent performance fro a 10mP 1.5x sensor.

For anyone who is interested I have posted a review of the D50 he

http://www.digitaldingus.com/forums/...pic.php?t=3029

and a review of the Nikon 18-200 VR with links to many other reviews
he

http://www.digitaldingus.com/forums/...pic.php?t=3033




Scott Speck wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I really like my D50, but the upcoming D80 has me wondering -- with the
bigger LCD display and the bigger, brighter viewfinder -- these are two
features I, in my picture taking, could really use, IF they made a
difference. I can see where seeing more detail, "on the fly" on the LCD
screen, would allow me to figure out if I had to reshoot, and, if so, better
how to adjust my camera's settings. However, will a bigger, brighter
viewfinder aid me in achieving good manual focus? I take lots of insect
macro pictures (2 inches away from dragonflies, etc), and accurate focus is
a challenge for me. I want to eventually achieve pixel-level focus,
manually, and I'm wondering if a brighter viewfinder would help.

Also, will the D80 sensor be significantly better than the D50 sensor?
Other than megapixel count, I mean -- such as sensitivity, noise level, etc.

Thanks for any help,
Scott

Scott Speck wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I really like my D50, but the upcoming D80 has me wondering -- with the
bigger LCD display and the bigger, brighter viewfinder -- these are two
features I, in my picture taking, could really use, IF they made a
difference. I can see where seeing more detail, "on the fly" on the LCD
screen, would allow me to figure out if I had to reshoot, and, if so, better
how to adjust my camera's settings. However, will a bigger, brighter
viewfinder aid me in achieving good manual focus? I take lots of insect
macro pictures (2 inches away from dragonflies, etc), and accurate focus is
a challenge for me. I want to eventually achieve pixel-level focus,
manually, and I'm wondering if a brighter viewfinder would help.

Also, will the D80 sensor be significantly better than the D50 sensor?
Other than megapixel count, I mean -- such as sensitivity, noise level, etc.

Thanks for any help,
Scott

Without actually using the new camera one can only speculate. I can say
that I do a lot of low light photography and find a large bright
viewfinder critical to getting good images. That and bright fast glass
that allows more light to reach the mirror.

For my purposes the difference in megapixel count between the D50/70 and
D80/200 is not a dealmaker as the dynamic range of the sensor is no
different. Noise levels at normal ISOs are already amazingly low for these
early (in the sense that this is the beginning of the digital photo age)
sensors and I rarely use high ISOs anyway.
One downside for me for the D80 is that it does not use compact flash cards.
For those of us with gigagbytes worth of those cards this can be a
significant added cost.
The major upside for the D80, and it could be a can't live without
dealmaker, is a better viewfinder than the D70. The D70 is the best camera
with the worse viewfinder ever made.

Maybe you need to rethink your file storage methodology. The card in
the camera is temporary storage. The space it requires in the camera
makes a significant difference to the size of the camera.

--
Joan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

"bmoag" wrote in message
...
: For my purposes the difference in megapixel count between the D50/70
and
: D80/200 is not a dealmaker as the dynamic range of the sensor is no
: different. Noise levels at normal ISOs are already amazingly low for
these
: early (in the sense that this is the beginning of the digital photo
age)
: sensors and I rarely use high ISOs anyway.
: One downside for me for the D80 is that it does not use compact
flash cards.
: For those of us with gigagbytes worth of those cards this can be a
: significant added cost.
: The major upside for the D80, and it could be a can't live without
: dealmaker, is a better viewfinder than the D70. The D70 is the best
camera
: with the worse viewfinder ever made.
:
:

According to Bill :
bmoag wrote:

One downside for me for the D80 is that it does not use compact flash cards.
For those of us with gigagbytes worth of those cards this can be a
significant added cost.

Why? If you sell your current camera, you could sell your CF cards along
with it.

Sell my *what*?

I would keep it as a backup camera -- just as I will keep my D70
when I get a D200. It can be used in places where I would not risk the
D200 (too expensive), or I could perform the IR-filter-ectomy on it an
turn it into an IR camera.

I'm surprised Nikon used SD as well, but it's not a massive problem. And
if you're dropping a grand or more on a camera, a couple of cards
shouldn't be a big deal.

It may be -- When I buy a D200, I will already be stretching the
budget -- but with the D200 I won't have to worry about CF cards, as I
know that it uses them.

[ ... ]

Compared to my film body, they all have relatively similar brightness,
albeit the film body has a much larger view.

Indeed so.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Scott Speck wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I really like my D50, but the upcoming D80 has me wondering -- with the
bigger LCD display and the bigger, brighter viewfinder -- these are two
features I, in my picture taking, could really use, IF they made a
difference. I can see where seeing more detail, "on the fly" on the LCD
screen, would allow me to figure out if I had to reshoot, and, if so, better
how to adjust my camera's settings. However, will a bigger, brighter
viewfinder aid me in achieving good manual focus?

Yes. The more light, the better you see. The better you see, the
better you focus.

Some AF cameras also have focus screen options for manual focus that
allow greater focus control at the expense of some light. So a brighter
viewfinder offsets the loss. I don't know if the D80 has focus screen
options.

The LCD, even in closeup, is not a great way to verify focus. It will
show obvious blunders, but is too small to analyze DOF critically. IOW
what looks okay in the LCD may look slightly off in the print. Best to
work on your technique and be absolutely sure the diopter setting of the
viewfinder is correct for your eyesight. Make sure your shooting with
your dominant eye ('right' for about 2/3 of people).

To determine the dominant eye, locate a small object across the room.
With both eyes open, bring your hand up at arms length with your thumb
up. Cover the far object with your thumb. Stay still. Close one eye
then the other. The eye that has the thumb and the object aligned is
the dominant.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Alan Browne wrote:
8

To determine the dominant eye, locate a small object across the room.
With both eyes open, bring your hand up at arms length with your thumb
up. Cover the far object with your thumb. Stay still. Close one eye
then the other. The eye that has the thumb and the object aligned is
the dominant.


Interesting, Alan. Thanks. I kinda knew that but this is interesting
confirmation. Do you do that as a party piece then? ;-)

Can't let this pass without a quote from the Nikon D50 user manual:

When using the viewfinder
When operating the diopter adjustment
control with your eye to the viewfinder,
care should be taken not to put your
finger in your eye accidentally.



--
Joan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
: Scott Speck wrote:
: Hi Everyone,
:
: I really like my D50, but the upcoming D80 has me wondering --
with the
: bigger LCD display and the bigger, brighter viewfinder -- these
are two
: features I, in my picture taking, could really use, IF they made a
: difference. I can see where seeing more detail, "on the fly" on
the LCD
: screen, would allow me to figure out if I had to reshoot, and, if
so, better
: how to adjust my camera's settings. However, will a bigger,
brighter
: viewfinder aid me in achieving good manual focus?
:
: Yes. The more light, the better you see. The better you see, the
: better you focus.
:
: Some AF cameras also have focus screen options for manual focus that
: allow greater focus control at the expense of some light. So a
brighter
: viewfinder offsets the loss. I don't know if the D80 has focus
screen
: options.
:
: The LCD, even in closeup, is not a great way to verify focus. It
will
: show obvious blunders, but is too small to analyze DOF critically.
IOW
: what looks okay in the LCD may look slightly off in the print. Best
to
: work on your technique and be absolutely sure the diopter setting of
the
: viewfinder is correct for your eyesight. Make sure your shooting
with
: your dominant eye ('right' for about 2/3 of people).
:
: To determine the dominant eye, locate a small object across the
room.
: With both eyes open, bring your hand up at arms length with your
thumb
: up. Cover the far object with your thumb. Stay still. Close one
eye
: then the other. The eye that has the thumb and the object aligned
is
: the dominant.
:
: Cheers,
: Alan
:
: --
: -- r.p.e.35mm user resource:
http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
: -- r.p.d.slr-systems:
http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
: -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
: -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Joan wrote:
Can't let this pass without a quote from the Nikon D50 user manual:

When using the viewfinder
When operating the diopter adjustment
control with your eye to the viewfinder,
care should be taken not to put your
finger in your eye accidentally.




Ah thanks for that. I've just been having a discussion elsewhere on the
unrealistic Health & Safety protocols springing up everywhere here in
the UK.

A mini storm has just blown up after a 69 page Risk Assessment document
produced by a London University came to light, aimed at helping schools
prepare for taking kids out on a Geography Field Trip! The final
sentence reads (tightly paraphrased): "Above all, ensure that before
placing one foot in front of the other, you can see where you will be
putting it".

Barmy.