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Windows XP and Mac OS-X put "stuff" on my card



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 8th 04, 03:19 AM
Bruce Patis
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Posts: n/a
Default Windows XP and Mac OS-X put "stuff" on my card

There have been many recent threads about memory cards, but I haven't
seen any that mentioned this specific item.

Windows XP and Mac OS-X added files and directories to the memory card
in my camera. I use nether of those two operating systems on any of
my computers, so here is how it happened.

I was using my Oly C-4000 at a friend's house who uses Windows XP.
She wanted copies of the pictures I had just taken, so I removed the
128MB SM card from the camera and placed it in a card reader connected
via USB cable to her computer. She then selected the image files on
the card that she wanted and copied them to the hard drive.
Everything was done with My Computer in XP.

I'm not a Windows expert, but it looked like it was a standard copying
operation. No message appeared other than the usual animated sheet of
paper flying from the card reader to the HD. When that procedure was
finished, I removed the card from the reader and placed it back in the
camera.

I took more pictures afterward. The camera worked fine and the
previous images were still available to view in the camera. When I
got home and was transferring the new images to my own computer, I
noticed that there was now an additional directory and a few small
files that were not graphic images. Even though they did not seem to
affect the camera operation, I removed them on general principles.

A month later, I visited a different friend who has a new iMac running
OS-X. We did the same thing, copying selected files from my SM card
to his computer via an external USB card reader. I also tried leaving
the card in the camera and connecting the Oly USB cable from the
camera to his computer. In both cases, the card appeared properly as
a drive letter.

Afterward, everything worked just like it did in my previous
experience with Windows XP. When I returned home and read the card
with my own computer, there was similar additional stuff on it. I
again deleted it, leaving only the image files in the directory tree
that the C-4000 creates. BTW, I did not reformat the card, nor need
to. DOS has always been very reliable for editing files and
directories on camera cards. Also, as expected with non-camera files,
the added items could neither be viewed nor deleted with the camera.

When any type of file is added to a camera card, it reduces the space
available for camera images. But since the additional stuff totalled
only a few kB, that was not a problem. Also, when I examined the
mysterious file(s), it looked like some kind of database index, not an
executable or anything suspicious. I think I read somewhere that XP
has a "feature" which makes it easier to view, sort, or catalog
images. If so, I'm sure Microsoft copied it from Apple.

I might be considered overly fussy, but I don't want Bill Gates or
Steve Jobs putting "stuff" in my computer or camera, especially
without asking permission. In any case, I'm curious whether there is
an option that I could tell my friends about which turns off that
"feature".

Bruce

P.S. This might be the cause of some of the more mysterious or
"mystical" problems that other users are having. It also might be why
some people feel that routine reformatting does improve performance.


  #2  
Old October 8th 04, 04:06 AM
Tetractys
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Posts: n/a
Default

Bruce Patis wrote:

... a friend's house who uses Windows XP....
I placed [the card] in a card reader ....
She then selected the image files on the card
that she wanted and copied them to the hard
drive.... when I examined the mysterious file(s),
it looked like some kind of database index ....


That's the Thumbnail Database Index, or
THUMBS.DB, created by Windows XP
to shorten the lag next time you access the
directory with Thumbnail View.

I don't want Bill Gates ... putting "stuff"
in my computer .... I'm curious whether
there is an option ... which turns off that
"feature".


Yes. In Windows Explorer, go to:
Tools, Folder Options, View, Advanced
and check the "Do Not Cache Thumbnails"
box.

You will also find PSPBRWSE.DB files
created by Paint Shop Pro, and other
database files to store thumbnail info from
a variety of multimedia programs like ACD
See, Photoshop, et alia. These are all created
on your storage media if you access them in
this way, just like on your hard drive. Most
of these apps have similar toggles.

They serve a purpose, of course. If you
have large numbers of image files, it can take
a lo-o-ong time for those thumbnails to
generate, especially if you use archival TIFFs.



  #3  
Old October 8th 04, 04:25 AM
Hunt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
says...

Bruce Patis wrote:

... a friend's house who uses Windows XP....
I placed [the card] in a card reader ....
She then selected the image files on the card
that she wanted and copied them to the hard
drive.... when I examined the mysterious file(s),
it looked like some kind of database index ....


That's the Thumbnail Database Index, or
THUMBS.DB, created by Windows XP
to shorten the lag next time you access the
directory with Thumbnail View.

I don't want Bill Gates ... putting "stuff"
in my computer .... I'm curious whether
there is an option ... which turns off that
"feature".


Yes. In Windows Explorer, go to:
Tools, Folder Options, View, Advanced
and check the "Do Not Cache Thumbnails"
box.

You will also find PSPBRWSE.DB files
created by Paint Shop Pro, and other
database files to store thumbnail info from
a variety of multimedia programs like ACD
See, Photoshop, et alia. These are all created
on your storage media if you access them in
this way, just like on your hard drive. Most
of these apps have similar toggles.

They serve a purpose, of course. If you
have large numbers of image files, it can take
a lo-o-ong time for those thumbnails to
generate, especially if you use archival TIFFs.


Correct. These files are totally benign, and other than taking up space on the
card will have not effect on its operation, only the speed with which THOSE
images that were thumbnailed, are viewed, if you should place the card into an
XP, or OS-X computer. Re-formatting in your camera will delete them
completely. Also Tetractys, I didn't know about the Do Not Cache Thumbs,
thanks.

Hunt

  #4  
Old October 8th 04, 05:02 AM
Eugene O'Brien
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I might be considered overly fussy, but I don't want Bill Gates or
Steve Jobs putting "stuff" in my computer or camera, especially
without asking permission. In any case, I'm curious whether there is
an option that I could tell my friends about which turns off that
"feature".


I think you're probably just going to give yourself ulcers if you stress
too much about this sort of thing. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs aren't
trying to spy on you or anything. I'm not trying to be insulting or
anyting, but in general you can probably assume that both of the OS's
are putting stuff there to make things faster and easier for them next
time you put the card in the computer. But as most people in the other
threads have said it's not a bad idea to re-format the card to clear it
when you put it back in the camera. It'll remove any unnessessary files.
And before anyone says, yes I know that re-format doesn't *ACTUALLY*
remove anything, but for all intents and purposes the files are gone and
the space is free to be used for images, rather than redundant thumbnail
cache files.
  #5  
Old October 8th 04, 05:09 AM
Tetractys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hunt wrote:

Also Tetractys, I didn't know about
the Do Not Cache Thumbs, thanks.


Cheers, mate.


  #6  
Old October 8th 04, 05:03 PM
Big Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
wrote:

There have been many recent threads about memory cards, but I haven't
seen any that mentioned this specific item.

Windows XP and Mac OS-X added files and directories to the memory card
in my camera. I use nether of those two operating systems on any of
my computers, so here is how it happened.

I was using my Oly C-4000 at a friend's house who uses Windows XP.
She wanted copies of the pictures I had just taken, so I removed the
128MB SM card from the camera and placed it in a card reader connected
via USB cable to her computer. She then selected the image files on
the card that she wanted and copied them to the hard drive.
Everything was done with My Computer in XP.

I'm not a Windows expert, but it looked like it was a standard copying
operation. No message appeared other than the usual animated sheet of
paper flying from the card reader to the HD. When that procedure was
finished, I removed the card from the reader and placed it back in the
camera.

I took more pictures afterward. The camera worked fine and the
previous images were still available to view in the camera. When I
got home and was transferring the new images to my own computer, I
noticed that there was now an additional directory and a few small
files that were not graphic images. Even though they did not seem to
affect the camera operation, I removed them on general principles.

A month later, I visited a different friend who has a new iMac running
OS-X. We did the same thing, copying selected files from my SM card
to his computer via an external USB card reader. I also tried leaving
the card in the camera and connecting the Oly USB cable from the
camera to his computer. In both cases, the card appeared properly as
a drive letter.

Afterward, everything worked just like it did in my previous
experience with Windows XP. When I returned home and read the card
with my own computer, there was similar additional stuff on it. I
again deleted it, leaving only the image files in the directory tree
that the C-4000 creates. BTW, I did not reformat the card, nor need
to. DOS has always been very reliable for editing files and
directories on camera cards. Also, as expected with non-camera files,
the added items could neither be viewed nor deleted with the camera.

When any type of file is added to a camera card, it reduces the space
available for camera images. But since the additional stuff totalled
only a few kB, that was not a problem. Also, when I examined the
mysterious file(s), it looked like some kind of database index, not an
executable or anything suspicious. I think I read somewhere that XP
has a "feature" which makes it easier to view, sort, or catalog
images. If so, I'm sure Microsoft copied it from Apple.

I might be considered overly fussy, but I don't want Bill Gates or
Steve Jobs putting "stuff" in my computer or camera, especially
without asking permission. In any case, I'm curious whether there is
an option that I could tell my friends about which turns off that
"feature".

Bruce

P.S. This might be the cause of some of the more mysterious or
"mystical" problems that other users are having. It also might be why
some people feel that routine reformatting does improve performance.

It sounds like there was some sort of software being used other than
Windows Explorer (I know too little about the Mac to address that).
I can use Windows Explorer in XP to copy files from my card to my hard
drive with no added files put on the card. However, if other software
is used, it *might* be putting an index file on the card; if so, it
should be (as you reported) a very small file.

Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
  #7  
Old October 9th 04, 01:47 AM
Roger Halstead
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
wrote:

There have been many recent threads about memory cards, but I haven't
seen any that mentioned this specific item.

Windows XP and Mac OS-X added files and directories to the memory card
in my camera. I use nether of those two operating systems on any of
my computers, so here is how it happened.

I was using my Oly C-4000 at a friend's house who uses Windows XP.
She wanted copies of the pictures I had just taken, so I removed the
128MB SM card from the camera and placed it in a card reader connected
via USB cable to her computer. She then selected the image files on
the card that she wanted and copied them to the hard drive.
Everything was done with My Computer in XP.

I'm not a Windows expert, but it looked like it was a standard copying
operation. No message appeared other than the usual animated sheet of
paper flying from the card reader to the HD. When that procedure was
finished, I removed the card from the reader and placed it back in the
camera.


It was not the copy operation that added the files. It was viewing
the files on the card/drive as thumbnails that did it.

If you use photoshop CS to view them that won't happen, but it's a
whole lot easier to just leave them as "details", copy everything and
delete the ones not wanted.

Any time you view the files as thumbnails Windows Explorer will create
a thumbnail directory and cache the thumbnails unless it's told not to
do so.

More than likely the Apple system did something similar.
I think I read somewhere that XP

has a "feature" which makes it easier to view, sort, or catalog
images. If so, I'm sure Microsoft copied it from Apple.

Who copied it from Xerox who developed the "windows" look and feel.


I might be considered overly fussy, but I don't want Bill Gates or
Steve Jobs putting "stuff" in my computer or camera, especially
without asking permission.


They did ask although most users don't recognize the choice. When
users understand the operating systems they find out those OSs will
place these files on the drive when the files are viewed as
thumbnails.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
  #8  
Old October 9th 04, 01:49 AM
Roger Halstead
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Default

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:03:35 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
wrote:

snip

It sounds like there was some sort of software being used other than
Windows Explorer (I know too little about the Mac to address that).
I can use Windows Explorer in XP to copy files from my card to my hard
drive with no added files put on the card. However, if other software
is used, it *might* be putting an index file on the card; if so, it
should be (as you reported) a very small file.

Windows Explorer does it when the files are viewd as thumbnails while
still on the CF card.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"


  #9  
Old October 9th 04, 04:04 PM
Bruce Patis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
wrote:

Windows XP and Mac OS-X added files and directories to the memory card
in my camera. I use nether of those two operating systems on any of
my computers, so here is how it happened...



Thanks, everyone, for all the info. Now I know that:

1. I didn't imagine it.grin
2. It should be reasonably safe to view or copy images from my camera
cards with a computer running those OS's.
3. Things will be more predictable if I operate the computer myself.
I was present the first time. However, since both owners also have
digicams, I just told them to use their normal procedure to view and
copy from a memory card.
4. If desired, there are options or procedures (at least in XP) to
disable or avoid writing anything to the card.

In any case, I'll probably leave things as is. The owners are used to
just clicking (or double-clicking) on files to view them, and would be
overly concerned if that no longer worked the same way. Also, neither
knew that any additional items were put on their camera cards because
it never affected their own camera's operation. Since now I know that
the additional "stuff" is definitely not harmful, I won't confuse them
by even mentioning it.

Regarding Microsoft copying things from Apple, I agree that all
computer companies copy ideas from their predecessors. Then the
copier introduces it as a great new feature in the next version of
their product. I just feel that Microsoft does that more often.

Bruce


  #10  
Old October 9th 04, 05:10 PM
Big Bill
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On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 00:49:05 GMT, Roger Halstead
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 09:03:35 -0700, Big Bill wrote:

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:19:34 GMT, Bruce Patis
wrote:

snip

It sounds like there was some sort of software being used other than
Windows Explorer (I know too little about the Mac to address that).
I can use Windows Explorer in XP to copy files from my card to my hard
drive with no added files put on the card. However, if other software
is used, it *might* be putting an index file on the card; if so, it
should be (as you reported) a very small file.

Windows Explorer does it when the files are viewd as thumbnails while
still on the CF card.


By golly, it does!
I never view that way; I just copy the files to a folder immediately.
Viewing as thumbnails is so slow! Im retired, and don't have the time!
:-)

Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
 




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